Gun Control: The Tree Of Liberty Must Be Refreshed From Time To Time With The Blood Of Children And Innocents

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

King Ned Stark,

By your rationale nothing should be illegal to sell because it will always create a black market.

[Rippounet]

27 minutes ago, King Ned Stark said:

So, several problems arise overnight:

Who said anything about doing it overnight? I actually agree with most of your analysis. It would take decades for the US to get rid of its guns, assuming it's even possible. But one can hope it will happen eventually, and those decades have to start somewhere.

[Yukle]

50 minutes ago, King Ned Stark said:

1- You’ve created millions of felons overnight, from people who have been perfectly law abiding citizens for their entire life.

2- You have a government that has just trampled on an amendment this country was founded on, looking utterly inefficient.  What’s their next move, trample the 4th, and go house to house?

3- The largest black market the world has ever seen has just been created.

These are excellent points. Australia was able to use a buy-back scheme to get rid of most guns because it didn't apply to that many weapons. There's no way that the American government could use the same means as Australia as the sheer quantity of arms is so many.

The issues with each of your points are somewhat murkier but still possible.

1) The laws can be phased in, like the 1986 firearms act, which applied to all future sales. There could be a long period of buy-backs, say 10 years, before the complete ban takes effect. In short, while difficult, it's possible to work around this.

2) The USA was not founded with the 2nd Amendment and it is clearly written in a way that only applied to each states' ability to raise its own militia - since that was how the Revolutionary War and Civil War were fought. The whole "When does it stop" argument is easy enough: it stops when the people decide it does. Americans are allowed to amend their constitution (hence Second Amendment) and if it's the will of the people do it, I can't see why they'd also enter into a fickle decision to repeal all others, too.

There's also the fact that the ninth amendment could still protect gun ownership, anyway.

3) Yes, that's true. It must be weighed up whether this is a price worth paying for the efforts.

[DMC]

4 hours ago, Fragile Bird said:

Hey, I responded because you sneered at "tons of diversity there, those English and French look so different!" 

*Sigh*  That quote wasn't directed at you.  It was directed at @James Arryn because when someone responds to me with a post full of snark - replete with strawmanning that included accusing me of "un-facts" when, in fact, he was using an entire different metric; as well as implying I was extolling the virtues of US multiculturalism when my original point was anything but - I have a tendency to respond in kind.

The bottomline on your qualm is, by your own standards, Canada has a 72.9% white population, meaning a 27% non-white population.  The US has a 61.3% white population, which means a substantially higher percentage of non-whites.  That's all I was saying.  It really didn't have to do with "diversity" the way you're using it, diversity was merely the most efficient word to use to say the US has - and historically has had - an unusually large amount of minority populations that look distinctly different than the majority population.  I would edit now if I knew it'd cause such consternation.  And there's no getting around this empirical fact unless you do not count Latinos/Hispanics as a minority that is oppressed and feared by the white majority because they look different.  I think that's the case.  If you think otherwise, lemme know, but I don't think you do.

As for the rest, with you accusing me of begging out on threads, I did so on the specific Cuba thread because I did not want that thread polluted with you - and, admittedly, more so another certain poster - accusing me of McCarthyism for simply quoting statistics from your own sources back to you.  By my recollection, you were the one that stopped responding in the US Politics threads.

[King Ned Stark]

Fair points, and I will try to address when I’m at work tomorrow.  This is the only Internet forum I post on and I don’t do any social media, it’s why I read the forum much more than I post, you should have the respect to answer someone who replies to your comment

[Pebble thats Stubby]

Sensible gun safety restrictions, are not something responsible gun owners should fear.

since sensible gun safety restrictions / laws would mean that guns not in use or in the owners direct control (eg in a holster on the person) are locked safely away where children and others cannot access them.

 

 

Yes I know people need to be able to access their guns instantly in the unlikely event that a Terrorist Swat team storm your home and it could happen at any moment.  But if your Gun is not at the very least in the same room as you, then it will do you no good in the unlikely situation you need to star in your very own action movie.   

If the parent in this situation http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43455550 had been a responsible gun owner then their 9 year old Son would not have been able to access your Gun without your knowledge (and direct supervision) while in another room and your Daughter would still be alive.

 

Even if you don't want to restrict the access to guns in any way, please at least make it so Gun owners are responsible for their guns at all times, and mandate some basic gun safety laws.

 

[Yukle]

On 3/19/2018 at 8:32 PM, Pebble said:

If the parent in this situation http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43455550 had been a responsible gun owner then their 9 year old Son would not have been able to access your Gun without your knowledge (and direct supervision) while in another room and your Daughter would still be alive.

This is extremely saddening.

It is not emphasised enough that - overwhelmingly - the people most likely to be shot with a gun are:

1) The person holding it.

2) Somebody related to the person holding it.

 

Murder is rarely planned. The term "Crime of Passion" is a euphemism, but also somewhat accurate. There is no chance for a pause, a second thought, a moment of recovery from a bad mood. Guns are quick, efficient and effective at killing humans. They do this by design. And the victims of allowing an outrageous saturation of guns throughout America has stained their lands with normal, everyday people, shot by other normal, everyday people. Including, as this article so tragically highlights, children.

[drawkcabi]

Active Shooter At YouTube headquarters in San Bruno, CA

Totally a guess, but maybe this has something to do with YouTube's "adpocalypse".

With CocaCola, Genreal Mills, etc pulling their ads because they've ended up on videos by nazis, white supremacists, and the like, YouTube's new hardline rules demonetizing any videos that touch upon controversy. So not only does Bubba the Klan Man get demonetized, but so does Jack Baker moderate guy just sharing his opinions on current events or anything that barely touches the periphery of their trigger subjects.

So maybe Bubba or some other fringe whacko seeing their once potential of a good livelihood trashed, decided to go show them.

A response to this could have been complained, derided, protested, boycotted, tried a smear campaign, any of that against YouTube, and it has been, but in today's climate this is also what we get.

Or I could be totally wrong and this is just a random shooting or some asshole with other reasons for a vendetta against the people there.

Either way, it's sad, it's sick, and yet my attitude is being or has been normalized to all this.

 

[Fez]

7 minutes ago, drawkcabi said:

Or I could be totally wrong and this is just a random shooting or some asshole with other reasons for a vendetta against the people there.

Either way, it's sad, it's sick, and yet my attitude is being or has been normalized to all this.

Per NBC News, police have reported a deceased female suspect and that they do not believe this was a terrorist act.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Just now, Fez said:

Per NBC News, police have reported a deceased female suspect and that they do not believe this was a terrorist act.

That's a curve ball. 

[Fez]

8 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

That's a curve ball. 

Police press conference is ongoing. There are four known victims who have been transported to nearby hospitals, the extent of their injuries is unknown. The suspect was female and is deceased due to a gun shot wound, which police believe was self-inflicted. No comment on motives, but based on the questions the press were asking, it sounds like it was a domestic incident that had escalated.

[Darth Richard II]

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

24 minutes ago, Fez said:

Police press conference is ongoing. There are four known victims who have been transported to nearby hospitals, the extent of their injuries is unknown. The suspect was female and is deceased due to a gun shot wound, which police believe was self-inflicted. No comment on motives, but based on the questions the press were asking, it sounds like it was a domestic incident that had escalated.

Very unusual. I would have guess disgruntled worker or angry YouTube personality that got their account banned. 

[drawkcabi]

2 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Very unusual. I would have guess disgruntled worker or angry YouTube personality that got their account banned. 

Yeah, that's what immediately popped in my head.

Terrible no matter what.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

16 minutes ago, drawkcabi said:

Yeah, that's what immediately popped in my head.

Terrible no matter what.

Yeah, hopefully there aren't any fatalities. 

[Zorral]

Loaded: A Disarming History of the Second Amendment by Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz.

https://www.politics-prose.com/book/9780872867239

It's not about external invasion, but Native Americans and slaves (as I've mentioned so very, very, very often).

It's not even about hunting anymore since nobody is doing it.

Guns are only about shooting each other and ourselves.

 

 

[Darth Richard II]

Well fuck, the youtube thing is barely news now. Looks like a domestic violence thing.

[lokisnow]

5 hours ago, Zorral said:

Loaded: A Disarming History of the Second Amendment by Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz.

https://www.politics-prose.com/book/9780872867239

It's not about external invasion, but Native Americans and slaves (as I've mentioned so very, very, very often).

It's not even about hunting anymore since nobody is doing it.

Guns are only about shooting each other and ourselves.

 

 

Well not “nobody is doing it” take for example a mid level state like Missouri for just one game animal, deer, and you’ll find in the 2016 season that 263,864 deer were harvested. While some hunters harvest more than one, many more harvest zero, I wouldn’t be surprised if there were at least 300,000 hunters per annum in Missouri (if not more).

now out of a state population of 6,000,000 that’s only five percent, but if you figure each hunter represents a household (often with two voters who both have a shared self interest in hunting even if only one does hunt) and each household has about three to four people on average now you’re looking at a max of 20% of the population represented by hunters. So that’s why hunting always gets referenced, because 20% is nothing to sneeze at.

https://huntfish.mdc.mo.gov/hunting-trapping/species/deer/deer-harvest-reports/deer-harvest-summaries/deer-harvest-summary-2016

 

[Darth Richard II]

There was an article somewhere I can't find talking about how most hunters are actually in favor of stricter gun laws, cause you don't need an ar15 with exploding bullets to hunt deer.

[karaddin]

On 3/8/2018 at 7:02 PM, Fragile Bird said:

Canada has the highest foreign-born population in the world, at 20%, well above the US, at 12.9%. Since 2000, 60% of our immigrants have come from Asia, only 13.7% from Europe.
 

Responding to an old post I know and I'm taking this at face value without researching on my own, but either these numbers or this ranking is wrong - Australia is at 28.5% (30 June, 2016) of the population born overseas and I know a further 20-25% are first generation (as in their parents were born overseas). Perhaps the Canadian stats are citizens rather than residents and highest in the world for that? I've got no idea if anyone else is higher than Aus, I just was familiar enough with our own numbers to know we were above 20%. I wouldn't be surprised if the ethnic diversity in Canada was higher though, the biggest source of immigrants to Aus is the UK by more than double anyone else.