What will happen to Gilly Craster and Aemon Rayder-Steelsong

[Darth Sidious]

On 3/9/2018 at 6:28 PM, Only 89 selfies today said:

Gilly ends up in the Bay of Dragons.  The focus of the story is shifting to the east.  To the question of a possible resurrection of Aemon Targaryen, yes please.  Feed Hizdahr to the flames and bring back Aemon. 

Two of the three main characters are in Slaver's Bay.  Daenerys Targaryen and Tyrion Lannister.  I say the story has already shifted focus.

[House Beaudreau]

9 hours ago, Barbrey Dustin said:

Hereditary rulership is likely to end.  Daenerys is a very young lady and succession is seldom foremost in the minds of the young.  She is also Azor Ahai and thus likely to live through the long night and into spring.  Little Aemon may not live that long.  And the dragons may not bond with someone who doesn't have Targaryen genes.  But whatever, I don't want to see Dany's empire go to the son of a wildling. 

Who would you like to see as her heir. If she never has another child? I think the dragons are a wash because if they represent nukes the will probably not survive the stories end. If Mance and his wildlings take control of the North at some point, Aemon would make a great ward if Dany ever makes it to Westeros. 

[Here's Looking At You, Kid]

1)  If I recall this correctly, Sam was running short of money by the time they reach Oldtown.  So who will pay for Gilly's passage to anywhere?  Without some good luck (or bad luck) she won't go anywhere.  

2)  Meereen.  I want Gilly to end up in Meereen.  

3)  Maester Aemon has king's blood.  Mance Junior has king's blood.  It seems to me that's a lot of magic material at Dany's disposal.  

[Curled Finger]

On 3/8/2018 at 2:32 PM, Nevets said:

Gilly spent her life at Craster's Keep.  She is not Free Folk and knows nothing about their lives.  Her going to Dany adds nothing to the story.  Given how much Sam cares for her, I think Martin will keep her close to Oldtown so she can have an effect on Sam's story.

Marwyn advising Dany is an excellent idea, and will likely happen.  He can give her current information on events in Westeros, as well as on more magical subjects.   By the way, Dany has heard Marwyn's name before.  Mirri Maz Duur mentioned that she was trained by him.

I think Gilly's isolated Craster ideas may be enough to impress anyone interested in Westeros.   She does know about the Others to an extent and she can vouch for her time with the NW.  Marwyn advising Dany is a great idea, but will she accept him particularly if she remembers he taught Mirri?  And what of great uncle Aemon all pickled up in a rum barrel?   What does this do to Dany?  I guess Gilly could serve the same as Barristan and tell Dany just how awesome the maester was?  But to what end?  A proper burial?  Moqorro will raise him?   I just don't know.   

I personally like the prospect of Gilly traveling the world and becoming an international ambassador of the North.   But, I think it's likely she stays with Sam in Oldtown, honing her reading and comprehension.    For all the musing Sam will discover something important, it's equally as likely that Gilly will, too.   

The baby has to be here for something.  Maybe endgame?  Maybe when Monster is reclaimed by his er, brOthers?  Man that's sad.   

[Curled Finger]

OK rather than pick on my friend @Nevets because I know he will come back with something entirely new to consider...a more public musing.   

Sam and Gilly are a team.    This baby is important to both of them even though they know baby is NOT Gilly's baby.   This is sort of where Horn Hill goes out with the bathwater for me.    This is not the baby Sam loves.   This baby, Dalla's boy, was removed from the Wall and we all know Jon's motives for doing this.   That leaves Gilly's boy in a great deal of danger while Dalla's boy is far better off--far from Mel's weird rituals.  I don't see a set up for Sam and Gilly to have both boys, so what's the deal here?   

Gilly's education has already begun in earnest.  What can she really do in Essos?  I got nothing and I'm not so sure Dany will jump happily on the Marwyn Love Train.  Dany faces a more than full compliment of advisers upon her return and I really do think that foremost among them will be Tyrion.   We've got Moqorro and Vic and no one really thinks that will go well.  We've got Barristan who we should all be prepared to cry long and loud for.   We've got Tyrion with Jorah and Penny, another one we should be prepared to cry for.  And we've probably got a freaking khalisar in the wings.  Dany is full to the brim with advisors.  She understands her magic.   Does she need to understand more?  Unless Marwyn can give up something really useful related to Euron I can't get excited about this match up.     

 

[Bowen 747]

The captain is like to dump Gilly and the baby at the docks.  But if he's smart enough, he might take Aemon's remains to Slaver's Bay and sell him to Dany.  

[300 H&H Magnum]

On 3/9/2018 at 6:28 PM, Only 89 selfies today said:

Gilly ends up in the Bay of Dragons.  The focus of the story is shifting to the east.  To the question of a possible resurrection of Aemon Targaryen, yes please.  Feed Hizdahr to the flames and bring back Aemon. 

Three  gets fed to the flames.  One is the dead lover.  An animal ridden by  the lover.  The third is the traitor.  A dead Daario, his horse, and the one who betrayed them all, Hizdahr.  Something good will happen.

[Only 89 selfies today]

On 3/18/2018 at 9:53 AM, 300 H&H Magnum said:

Three  gets fed to the flames.  One is the dead lover.  An animal ridden by  the lover.  The third is the traitor.  A dead Daario, his horse, and the one who betrayed them all, Hizdahr.  Something good will happen.

My guess, poor Daario is already dead.  The Yunkai'i killed their hostages.

[Morte]

What I would like:

1) Maester Marwyn will become Dany's Maester and one of her advisors.

2) Gilly will end up in the Bay of Dragons and can indeed offer something: she will be the one who can verify Marwyn's claims about the Others, so Dany will be more convinced to go to Westeros and to the North.

3) Maester Aemon will be the first Targ in a long time to get a proper family burial - by Dragon fire (I think he would have liked this )

4)

On 8.3.2018 at 6:54 AM, House Beaudreau said:

Aemon Steelsong becomes Dany's heir.  I think its kind of poetic...

Yes, this would be poetic indeed: Aemon Steelsong, the prince beyond the Wall, heir to the Iron Throne.

[Rufus Snow]

Regarding Aemon Steelsong, I had to do a double-take when I read this bit:

Quote

A Feast for Crows - Samwell IV

Gilly thought about that. "Dalla brought him forth during battle, as the swords sang all around her. That should be his name. Aemon Battleborn. Aemon Steelsong."

A name even my lord father might like. A warrior's name. The boy was Mance Rayder's son and Craster's grandson, after all. He had none of Sam's craven blood. "Yes. Call him that."

"When he is two," she promised, "not before."

How does it come that he is Craster's grandson?

This would mean either:

1. Dalla and Val are Craster's daughters
2. Mance was Craster's son
3. Sam was mistaken
4. There has been a continuity error

If either 1 or 2 is correct, how come we don't know? And what the heck does it mean for the story of Aemon Steelsong in the future?

 

[sweetsunray]

On 11/03/2018 at 9:22 PM, Curled Finger said:

The baby has to be here for something.  Maybe endgame?  Maybe when Monster is reclaimed by his er, brOthers?  Man that's sad.   

It's possible Steelsong won't make it beyond an Ironborn attack... Sam, Gilly and Dalla's boy were sent to the farthest city away from the NW and Red priestess who likes her bonfire, and yet it may be all for naught. If so, what would it have as impact for Sam? Will he wait around for years to forge all his links?

And he alsready served a crucial purpose for Jon. As LC he separated a child from its mother, and a child from its father, for good, and fully intent on preserving that lie.  Ned Stark also lied to protect Jon. When, Jon learns his true parentage, he can hardly be angry with Ned over it, for he is doing something similar, even if not analogues.

[Curled Finger]

1 hour ago, sweetsunray said:

It's possible Steelsong won't make it beyond an Ironborn attack... Sam, Gilly and Dalla's boy were sent to the farthest city away from the NW and Red priestess who likes her bonfire, and yet it may be all for naught. If so, what would it have as impact for Sam? Will he wait around for years to forge all his links?

And he alsready served a crucial purpose for Jon. As LC he separated a child from its mother, and a child from its father, for good, and fully intent on preserving that lie.  Ned Stark also lied to protect Jon. When, Jon learns his true parentage, he can hardly be angry with Ned over it, for he is doing something similar, even if not analogues.

It is soooooooo good to see you!   I see your point here.   Man, it's still sad.  It is the best explanation I've read yet.  

[Curled Finger]

9 hours ago, Rufus Snow said:

Regarding Aemon Steelsong, I had to do a double-take when I read this bit:

How does it come that he is Craster's grandson?

This would mean either:

1. Dalla and Val are Craster's daughters
2. Mance was Craster's son
3. Sam was mistaken
4. There has been a continuity error

If either 1 or 2 is correct, how come we don't know? And what the heck does it mean for the story of Aemon Steelsong in the future?

 

Isn't it possible GRRM is referring to both boys in this?  They do share identity and they are milk brothers.  

[Rufus Snow]

12 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

Isn't it possible GRRM is referring to both boys in this?  They do share identity and they are milk brothers.  

Absolutely not. The discussion was specifically about naming Dalla's boy. The scene occurs on the Cinnamon Wind after Maester Aemon died. It was his death that prompted them to settle on the name Aemon for Dalla's boy (after a couple of years, of course), and it's possibly an indication that death had paid for life. The journey that killed Aemon Targaryen saved Aemon Steelsong.

Of the four options to explain this line, I fear that no. 4 might be most likely, (but I don't want it to be, and I should have more faith in the George....) Maybe option 3 is possible, after all Sam has recently got all befuddled by popping his cherry. Option number 1 entails a few improbable things: firstly that Gilly had not recognised her (half-)sisters AND that the Mance managed to whisk two of Craster's wives away from the keep - Craster had many complaints of Mance, but if that had been the case I'm sure he'd still be bitching about it when we see him. Mance claimed to have met Dalla on his way back from Winterfell to see the king, so it is likely he would have passed or possibly visited Craster's keep on his travels...

And if it was Craster who was Mance's father, then the tale of Mance being fathered by a black crow on a wilding woman is either i) false, or ii) suggests that Craster had been a crow at one time. And yet we know what happens to Craster's sons (or believe we do, anyway....) meaning that Mance has both black and white brothers.

There is no doubt of what that line says - but what it means is a whole different bundle of joy....

[James Fenimore Cooper XXII]

On 3/11/2018 at 10:52 AM, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

1)  If I recall this correctly, Sam was running short of money by the time they reach Oldtown.  So who will pay for Gilly's passage to anywhere?  Without some good luck (or bad luck) she won't go anywhere.  

2)  Meereen.  I want Gilly to end up in Meereen.  

3)  Maester Aemon has king's blood.  Mance Junior has king's blood.  It seems to me that's a lot of magic material at Dany's disposal.  

I'm a Dany fan and anything that will help her sounds good to me.  Gilly should serve Dany.  She can be the Dragon's third maid, to replace Doreah.

[Rufus Snow]

2 hours ago, Rufus Snow said:

And if it was Craster who was Mance's father, then the tale of Mance being fathered by a black crow on a wilding woman is either i) false, or ii) suggests that Craster had been a crow at one time. And yet we know what happens to Craster's sons (or believe we do, anyway....) meaning that Mance has both black and white brothers.

No, Rufus. Craster was never a crow - but his father was. But as we don't know the names of either Mance's father or Craster's, we don't know if they are related. There may have been a single ranger with bit of a thing for wilding women, who could have been the father of both of them - they could be brothers. But Mance was taken in by the Watch and became a crow himself, but Craster's mother was turned away when she brought her babe to the Wall. It's equally possible that there were two different rangers with a thing for wildling women.

Anyway, we can now rule out option 2 - Mance is not Craster's son. Pity, that would have been fun to speculate on....

[House Beaudreau]

On 3/29/2018 at 10:00 AM, Rufus Snow said:

Regarding Aemon Steelsong, I had to do a double-take when I read this bit:

How does it come that he is Craster's grandson?

This would mean either:

1. Dalla and Val are Craster's daughters
2. Mance was Craster's son
3. Sam was mistaken
4. There has been a continuity error

If either 1 or 2 is correct, how come we don't know? And what the heck does it mean for the story of Aemon Steelsong in the future?

 

I think sam was speaking here in the sense that Aemon Steelsong is actually Mance Ryder's son but will be pretending to be Gilly's babe and in a messed up kind of way Craster is the Boys grandfather (and father too) because Gilly was his daughter. 

Or the Mance's Mother was one of Craster's daughters stolen by a Crow which would explain why the Night's Watch would take Mance. Craster was also fathered by a Crow but wasn't taken in by the Wall? Maybe by the time Mance was born, the Nights watch knew what Craster was doing to male babies

[Bowen 747]

So Aemon's preserved remains make it to Slaver's Bay.  He's given a proper send off, per family tradition.  Might we see a miracle from the fire?  Targaryens have been cremated before and miracles didn't happen.  It's just too good a story to have the maester's remains go to Meereen.  There is a lot of potential for a good plot to come from it.

[Rufus Snow]

OK, here's one for you wordplay fans: Aemon Steelsong could be described as the 'Prince of Dalla Rayder', which made me think of the old Celtic kingdom of Dal Riada, and a quick google threw up pretty quickly that some people believe that Artur, Prince of Dal Riada may have been a historical or mythological inspiration for the King Arthur of the Camelot cycle. Just sayin'.... let the spitballs fly

 

3 hours ago, House Beaudreau said:

Or the Mance's Mother was one of Craster's daughters stolen by a Crow which would explain why the Night's Watch would take Mance. Craster was also fathered by a Crow but wasn't taken in by the Wall? Maybe by the time Mance was born, the Nights watch knew what Craster was doing to male babies

Yeah, I did consider this at first, but that would make Craster the great-grandfather instead... the more i think about it, the more I'm thinking 'continuity error', much as I dislike that conclusion...

But this gave me tinglies too:

Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Jon VIII

"Craster's son?" Val shrugged. "He is no kin to me."

"I have heard you singing to him."

"I was singing to myself. Am I to blame if he listens?" A faint smile brushed her lips. "It makes him laugh. Oh, very well. He is a sweet little monster."

One of those denials that sound like an admission.....

[Darth Sidious]

GM likes to send his characters on long, adventurous journeys.  Perhaps because his own family never got the chance to travel much and GM spent his childhood dreaming of distant places from his home in New Jersey.  It is possible that Gilly's travels is just that, to open her eyes to the wider world and to behold the sight of Dany's dragons.  To go from Craster's Keep (akin to a pig sty) to the wonders of Essos is the adventure of her lifetime.  To go from the cold and dark to the warm and bright.  To entertain Dany with stories and inform Jorah of his father's death.