Varysblackfyre321 Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 If it comes down what are the odds do you figure of it being restored? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lollygag Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 Zero odds of it being rebuilt. Things will be changed becoming balanced somehow so it won't be necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Sidious Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 1 hour ago, Varysblackfyre321 said: If it comes down what are the odds do you figure of it being restored? Depends on how many of the Children are left. 1 hour ago, Lollygag said: Zero odds of it being rebuilt. Things will be changed becoming balanced somehow so it won't be necessary. Could be. I read the theory below on why it's important for AA to be reborn as a female this time around. So yeah, something has to change in order to have different results. Dany is most likely the first female Azor Ahai and the first to have dragons. With those at her commands it is possible to win the war against the Others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckPunch Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 Depends on if they can get the Wildlings to pay for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell's son Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 3 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said: If it comes down what are the odds do you figure of it being restored? If it needed to be, It would, but somehow I see another route being taken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varysblackfyre321 Posted March 5, 2018 Author Share Posted March 5, 2018 6 hours ago, ChuckPunch said: Depends on if they can get the Wildlings to pay for it. The north side of the wall isn't sending their best: they're bringing wargs, they're bringing wights, they're rapists, I assume some are good people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varysblackfyre321 Posted March 5, 2018 Author Share Posted March 5, 2018 8 hours ago, Lollygag said: Zero odds of it being rebuilt. Things will be changed becoming balanced somehow so it won't be necessary. Kinda seems a let down since the watch could be argued is going through a renaissance period right about now no? So the watch just dies off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowy Tends Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 7 hours ago, ChuckPunch said: Depends on if they can get the Wildlings to pay for it. good one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fattest Leech Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 3 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said: The north side of the wall isn't sending their best: they're bringing wargs, they're bringing wights, they're rapists, I assume some are good people. You have that backwards. ALL of the free folk are good people that bring talent and much needed survival skills. They are part of the realms of men. The few trouble makers, like the Weeper and his handful of cronies, are going to die soon one way or another. As Val points out in the story, they have good and bad, just like those kingdoms south of the wall. Seriously, GRRM favors the free folk to come through the wall. He has likened their plight to situations like our refugee crisis and native Americans. The free folk are not the enemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lollygag Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 3 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said: Kinda seems a let down since the watch could be argued is going through a renaissance period right about now no? So the watch just dies off? For me the writing was on the wall (ha!) since the very beginning of the series: the NW has been a very long time in dying and the end is near. I think A Song of Ice and Fire may speak to many things, but for me the biggest is about the seasons getting corrected, at least somewhat. So yeah, it dies out just as it's been laid out since the series began. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megorova Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 In Essos Azor Ahai and his people defeated the Others, all of them. But in Westeros Long Night had different ending. The Last Hero was not someone special, not a champion chosen by some deity. He had no special abilities, he was just a normal person. And the only heroic deed that he did, is that he managed to find Children. Then people of Westeros somehow discovered, that the Others could be killed with dragonglass. So eventually they managed to push the Others to far north of Westeros, into uninhabited lands. And after that, they had build The Wall, to separate those lands from the rest of Westeros. The Night's Watch was created to manage The Wall, and to keep the Others on the other side, away from the living. But if during Second Long Night new Azor Ahai will appear in Westeros, then The Wall will be unneeded. Because Azor Ahai will defeat the Others, and annihilate all of them, how it was done in Essos thousands years ago. The Wall will be unneeded, same as Night's Watch. They already served their purpose - to protect people of Westeros, until arrival of a Savior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varysblackfyre321 Posted March 5, 2018 Author Share Posted March 5, 2018 6 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said: You have that backwards. ALL of the free folk are good people that bring talent and much needed survival skills. They are part of the realms of men. The few trouble makers, like the Weeper and his handful of cronies, are going to die soon one way or another. As Val points out in the story, they have good and bad, just like those kingdoms south of the wall. Seriously, GRRM favors the free folk to come through the wall. He has likened their plight to situations like our refugee crisis and native Americans. The free folk are not the enemy. Joke missed. I wasn't agreeing with a xenophobic sentiment that postulates most of an entire culture of millions is just all bad. They are men, they're not all good nor all bad, mostly just gray. Hell, I'd argue even among the Weeper's camp. Culture is noticeably more barbaric in some avenues(wife stealing is a ok, and progressive in others(it's ok for everyone to fuck-so long as they're not your family, those who should lead should be those with merit). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fattest Leech Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 7 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said: Joke missed. Gotcha I guess the reason I missed it is that this statement (or one rather similar) is often repeated on the threads as if it were true. But we know it is not. 7 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said: I wasn't agreeing with a xenophobic sentiment that postulates most of an entire culture of millions is just all bad. They are men, they're not all good nor all bad, mostly just gray. Hell, I'd argue even among the Weeper's camp. Culture is noticeably more barbaric in some avenues(wife stealing is a ok, and progressive in others(it's ok for everyone to fuck-so long as they're not your family, those who should lead should be those with merit). Except, wife stealing is not what it seems. What we know of the "stealing" is a communication error and the tale has been twisted in to something vile that "wildlings" do. But we know that in free folk culture it is actualy the woman in the end that makes the decisions. I shall be sharper to the jokes in the future Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commentator Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 18 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said: If it comes down what are the odds do you figure of it being restored? What are the odds that dragons will hatch from petrified stone eggs? Thin. Thinner than the wedding soup at Edmure and Roslyn's wedding. But when the chosen person comes along anything is possible. Dany hatched the dragon eggs. The reincarnation of Brandon the Builder can rebuild the wall if need be and he might be Bran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varysblackfyre321 Posted March 5, 2018 Author Share Posted March 5, 2018 1 hour ago, The Fattest Leech said: Except, wife stealing is not what it seems. What we know of the "stealing" is a communication error and the tale has been twisted in to something vile that "wildlings" do. But we know that in free folk culture it is actualy the woman in the end that makes the decisions. Not really. Else, we'd hear women who'd been stolen during their raids on the south of the wall coming back over-we don't and doubtful they wanted to. So long as they cease resisting it seems the stealing is valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fattest Leech Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 51 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said: Not really. Else, we'd hear women who'd been stolen during their raids on the south of the wall coming back over-we don't and doubtful they wanted to. So long as they cease resisting it seems the stealing is valid. That is not at all how "stealing" works. Ask Munda for one. Dalla interrupts Mance during "war talk" with the guys and she is only praised as being wise. Val keeps a "pet" (but this has many other meanings). Even Ygritte sass talks Jon who has a blade to her throat. However, as you said, if this practice was all so negative, shouldn't we hear of these woman making their way back to the Wall or NW rangers finding them? We do not. Every story we hear of this FF stealing idea literally comes from rumor (except the Weeper shit). Hell, in one of our first scenes we have Ned and Cat just assume that there have been so many NW deserters lately because of "wildlings" and not the real enemy of the Others. Rumors and whispers are placed in to this story for just the reason of exacerbating an idea to make a situation worse. It is one way an author creates tension. This arc is no exception. This idea is also supported by the notion that Mors Umber (the one-eyed giant who wears a snow bear pelt ) had a daughter "stolen" off about thirty years ago... and she may be coming back in to play in TWOW, if she hasn't already, and she is south of the wall and willingly working with the free folk. This is not because the woman stopped resisting. That idea is the type of trite BS that GRRM is dispelling with his free folk. Remember, woman in this progressive society can get "divorced", and have choice over their own reproduction habits, and in the end of the stealing ritual it is the woman who decides to accept the man. As a culture, they even have their own presage of this happening. So much more to this, but I hate derailing threads . Also, we know the free folk and the northerners have some trade, at least, so there is that commonality. And most of all, this follows GRRM's tenet of make love, not war. Read his blog about dispelling the myth about immigrants and what "bad guys" they are. And you can also listen to this talk. There is so much more out there, including his own past works, that shows us the free folk, as a whole, are not the extreme baddies as we have been twistedly told. Getting down to the root of truth is what we are experiencing as we read. Maybe another thread to continue this, though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varysblackfyre321 Posted March 6, 2018 Author Share Posted March 6, 2018 1 hour ago, The Fattest Leech said: That is not at all how "stealing" works. Ask Munda for one. Dalla interrupts Mance during "war talk" with the guys and she is only praised as being wise. Val keeps a "pet" (but this has many other meanings). Even Ygritte sass talks Jon who has a blade to her throat. None of what you describe contradicts what I said. Females not being completely subservient to the opposite sex does not mean stealing really requires anything more than submission of the eventual(at most) submission of the female to be considered valid-Jon literally slew the guys Ygritte was huddled with, pressed a knife against her throat and she submitted to his will-Tormund(who gives a story to Jon to where he took a woman who struggled and never gave any indication she had consented as if it's no big deal), and Ygritte, count this as a stealing even though the only reason she said yes, was because her life was literally threatened into it. They like strong women because they like strong anything really; if someone stronger takes what you own, well they're entitled to what you have for they are stronger. If you fail to recognize their superiority you may try to prove them wrong-but the fault lies entirely on you if you can't bring yourself to risk putting up a fight, or lose. 1 hour ago, The Fattest Leech said: However, as you said, if this practice was all so negative, shouldn't we hear of these woman making their way back to the Wall or NW rangers finding them. We do not. Every story we hear of this FF stealing idea literally comes from rumor (except the Weeper shit). Hell, in one of our first scenes we have Ned and Cat just assume that there have been so many NW deserters lately because of "wildlings" and not the real enemy of the Others. Rumors and whispers are placed in to this story for just the reason of exacerbating an idea to make a situation worse. It is one way an author creates tension. This arc is no exception. You know it's probably terrifying for these women who'd kidnapped, by big scary killers, and brought to a place so cold and harsh as north of the wall-unlikely these women are not used to hunting to get the food they need theyd need to survive on their own even if one of them could muster up the courage to try leave the one big scary killer whose claimed her. You honestly think the majority of these women wouldn't have preferred to go home to their families? That the men who kidnapped them would just let them leave if they say no, that they'd care about the word no or any real struggles after bringing them all the way home once they get in the mood for sex? You honestly think the majority of them would go along with rather than risk being brutally beaten to death by their new "husband" The mormont women had to become warriors because of the periodic raids from the IB and the wildlings, to which they came and took them over for wives. All, hell most of their kin were just wooed by the Wildling's way of life they decided to stay rather than head home to be with their loved ones? Unlikely. 1 hour ago, The Fattest Leech said: his idea is also supported by the notion that Mors Umber (the one-eyed giant who wears a snow bear pelt ) had a daughter "stolen" off about thirty years ago... and she may be coming back in to play in TWOW, if she hasn't already, and she is south of the wall and willingly working with the free folk. This is not because the woman stopped resisting. That idea is the type of trite BS that GRRM is dispelling with his free folk. Remember, woman in this progressive society can get "divorced", and have choice over their own reproduction habits, and in the end of the stealing ritual it is the woman who decides to accept the man. As a culture, they even have their own presage of this happening. So much more to this, but I hate derailing threads Speculation isn't really proof. Crowsfood's daughter could be dead for all we know. Divorce is literally slitting the husband's throat in wildling society. Ygritte makes very clear if her husband ever mistreated her, abused her it was her choice try for his life. Doubtful She'd feel any pity towards a woman who'd be too weak to do just that in such a situation.The wildlings value strength above all else. It's their defining feature. If a person is too weak to fight back against the treatment they're given they deserve it; if you would rather run away than fight, they are entitled to the possessions of your home, if you can't bring yourself to run away or try to kill a man you hate for murderering your family because of fear, you would be chastized for allowing such an emotion take hold of you. You made a choice in the end. Its kinda similar the notion to one Tyrion develops of how slaves choose to be slaves; they have a choice between that and death so it's at least partly(entirely) their fault for being slaves for they "chose" that rather than risking the wrath of their masters or just killing themselves all together. The Wildling's over arching culture has some gross views that are going to be prevalent in a society to which raiding is really the go to example of how to garner wealth. Them being flawless paragons, with a culture totally perfectly enlightened, in my opinion would make them boring. Their noticble and quite major flaws, and regressive attitudes on certain things make them complex. You do not want to derail the thread. I can respect that sentiment. This conversation will cease. Now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fattest Leech Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 1 hour ago, Varysblackfyre321 said: ~snipped for brevity~ Don't believe the hype Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 If it comes down, it's gone for good. The practicality of the barrier is minimal given how often it's circumvented already through the Gorge, the Bay of Seals or just climbing it. To say nothing of the Seven Kingdoms not having the manpower(and/or will) to man the Wall as is, much less build a new one. Also the minor detail of if the Wall comes down and there's anyone left to rebuild, there's a good chance there's not going to be much to build a barrier against anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shi Qiang Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 On 3/4/2018 at 9:24 PM, Varysblackfyre321 said: If it comes down what are the odds do you figure of it being restored? Restored by whom? Bran with Giant labor. Others with Wight labor. Me thinks 2 can rebuild the wall. And that's probably how it was built in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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