What if Renly supported Joffrey?

[UFT]

according to his speech with stannis, he didn't believe stannis was the heir. so if his own rebellion did not happen or take off, he would be nominally on the side of joffrey.

for any reason you want. maybe with designs on becoming the regent/lord protector. maybe just to get more favor in court. maybe to make sure to deny stannis the iron throne and later on place tommen on it.

how would that affect the WOTFK?

 

[LindsayLohan]

FanFic thread? Cause this scenario is completely implausible.

[Adam Yozza]

Renly started his entire rebellion on the premise that he didn't want to support a Lannister regime (nevermind that he was just going to be replacing them with a Tyrell regime) so if Renly didn't crown himself, then the odds are that he would back Stannis regardless of whether he believed the incest claim or not.

But even that's rather implausable given what we know of the character. A more interesting idea, to me at least, is what would happen if Stannis remembered this little thing called abdication and allowed his claim to pass to Renly?

[Light a wight tonight]

Renly was still on the "Joff is a bastard and has no claim" side of the fence. The original question carries "what if" way too far.

[Universal Sword Donor]

35 minutes ago, Light a wight tonight said:

Renly was still on the "Joff is a bastard and has no claim" side of the fence. The original question carries "what if" way too far.

He didn't know Joffrey was a bastard until he got Stannis' letter. Based on what he said and how he acted, he didn't believe it one iota either.

He thought the Lannisters would kill him if he remained close by (and we know this would eventually be the case).

[Dorian Martell's son]

8 hours ago, LindsayLohan said:

FanFic thread? Cause this scenario is completely implausible.

Yes, but with nearly a decade between book offerings these days, fan fic is all some of us have 

[Angel Eyes]

4 hours ago, Adam Yozza said:

Renly started his entire rebellion on the premise that he didn't want to support a Lannister regime (nevermind that he was just going to be replacing them with a Tyrell regime) so if Renly didn't crown himself, then the odds are that he would back Stannis regardless of whether he believed the incest claim or not.

But even that's rather implausable given what we know of the character. A more interesting idea, to me at least, is what would happen if Stannis remembered this little thing called abdication and allowed his claim to pass to Renly?

Stannis wouldn't. He'd say it was his duty to be the king.

[Lord Lannister]

9 hours ago, Adam Yozza said:

Renly started his entire rebellion on the premise that he didn't want to support a Lannister regime (nevermind that he was just going to be replacing them with a Tyrell regime) so if Renly didn't crown himself, then the odds are that he would back Stannis regardless of whether he believed the incest claim or not.

But even that's rather implausable given what we know of the character. A more interesting idea, to me at least, is what would happen if Stannis remembered this little thing called abdication and allowed his claim to pass to Renly?

Renly always seemed to want some scenario that would propel the Tyrells into a position of power where he and Loras could be together coupled with a romantic flair for the dramatic and even whimsical. I can't see him backing Joffrey though when he believes in his heart the Lannisters killed his brother and despite what you think of his heritage it was obvious Joffrey was a creature of the Lannisters. The only scenario I could even consider Renly backing Joffrey is if Cersei made him Regent, and left Renly to raise Joffrey. Which then we're crossing into a whole other area of implausible.

If Renly doesn't declare himself king, he likely ends up backing Stannis or just openly rebelling without a crown. I'm actually surprised he wasn't more intrigued by Catelyn's suggestion of a grand council. The grandeur of being proclaimed king by acclamation seems right up his alley.

[cpg2016]

On 3/5/2018 at 11:30 PM, Lord Lannister said:

Renly always seemed to want some scenario that would propel the Tyrells into a position of power where he and Loras could be together

Renly wants a scenario that propels him into a position of power.  He settles on the Tyrells because of his relationship with Loras; he doesn't choose them in order to be closer to Loras, it's that closeness which makes the Margaery scheme possible.

And there is no scenario in which Renly backs Joffrey.  He knows about the twincest, and only cares insofar as it's an opportunity to gain power and influence in the capitol.  Renly wants power for Renly, and that is that.  The only way he backs the existing Lannister regime is if he has no backing from another Paramount House, because he knows that he'll lose influence and standing in an even more pro-Lannister regime.

[Universal Sword Donor]

He wants nothing to do with the Lannisters since he thinks they are trying to kill him, which he is 100% correct about.

[Bernie Mac]

35 minutes ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

He wants nothing to do with the Lannisters since he thinks they are trying to kill him, which he is 100% correct about.

No, he thinks Cersie wants to kill him, which he is 100% right, he was OK with Joffrey being King as long as Cersei was not Regent. 

 

 

[Universal Sword Donor]

31 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said:

No, he thinks Cersie wants to kill him, which he is 100% right, he was OK with Joffrey being King as long as Cersei was not Regent. 

The odds of which were basically zero unless Ned seized Joffrey, which he didn't. He left KL for a reason.

I feel pretty comfortable lumping in Joffrey with Cersei as "Lannisters who want him dead" in this scenario.

[Bernie Mac]

2 minutes ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

The odds of which were basically zero unless Ned seized Joffrey, which he didn't. He left KL for a reason.

I feel pretty comfortable lumping in Joffrey with Cersei as "Lannisters who want him dead" in this scenario.

Joffrey may well have, but that does not change the fact that Renly would have accepted Joffrey as king if Cersei was removed from power. His problem was with an individual, not the House. 

[Universal Sword Donor]

Just now, Bernie Mac said:

Joffrey may well have, but that does not change the fact that Renly would have accepted Joffrey as king if Cersei was removed from power. His problem was with an individual, not the House. 

I am not disagreeing. Cersei was never going to be removed from power after Ned botched his opportunity. 

[Lord Lannister]

3 hours ago, cpg2016 said:

Renly wants a scenario that propels him into a position of power.  He settles on the Tyrells because of his relationship with Loras; he doesn't choose them in order to be closer to Loras, it's that closeness which makes the Margaery scheme possible.

And there is no scenario in which Renly backs Joffrey.  He knows about the twincest, and only cares insofar as it's an opportunity to gain power and influence in the capitol.  Renly wants power for Renly, and that is that.  The only way he backs the existing Lannister regime is if he has no backing from another Paramount House, because he knows that he'll lose influence and standing in an even more pro-Lannister regime.

He schemed to marry Margaery to Robert, then after he died offered to unequivocally back Ned in ruling through Joffrey. Both of these don't directly propel him to a position of power, so he had other motives in acting. He only crowned himself king when Ned decided to stick his neck out, and because, screw Stannis.

[Leonardo]

This question is really "What would have happened if Ned and Renly grabbed Joff and took the throne?" Because if that doesn't happen, Renly crowns himself or backs Stannis, and we essentially get that in the story...

[Lord Lannister]

3 hours ago, Leonardo said:

This question is really "What would have happened if Ned and Renly grabbed Joff and took the throne?" Because if that doesn't happen, Renly crowns himself or backs Stannis, and we essentially get that in the story...

Renly seizing Joffrey via coup de main and naming himself Regent would present an interesting scenario. Oddly enough I'd still see Stannis opposing him citing the incest claim, but everyone else would be wild cards. Tywin wouldn't be happy, but presumably his daughter and grandchildren are hostages so he might not act directly. Depending on the timing Ned would either support Stannis or be Renly's prisoner for his intent to do so. The Tyrells would still be in Renly's camp, and Mace would be Hand I'd presume possibly with Margaery being engaged to either the Regent or the king. The Riverlands would still be under attack by the Lannisters, and Renly would have difficulty calling back the dogs of war without getting bitten.

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

Basically nothing would have changed, Renly still would have been killed by the shadow, but the Reach probably would have remained neutral .

[Corvo the Crow]

Tyrells, like the Vale wouldn't participate. 

The war would be over quickly with Stormlander support.

Renly dies in an accident as a well deserved reward for supporting Jauffre.

Tommen sits on SE seat.

Oh and Stannis gets to keep DS until such time the throne  finds some allies with naval power 

[cpg2016]

On 3/12/2018 at 8:00 PM, Lord Lannister said:

He schemed to marry Margaery to Robert, then after he died offered to unequivocally back Ned in ruling through Joffrey. Both of these don't directly propel him to a position of power, so he had other motives in acting. He only crowned himself king when Ned decided to stick his neck out, and because, screw Stannis.

Actually, they do.  Feudal politics operate through proximity to the king.  Renly has a ton of access, as Lord of Storm's End, as Master of Laws, and as Robert's brother.  He can gain more power if he is responsible for Margaery's position at court.  It gives him multiple angles of access to receive largesse and honors from the court, and gains him the backing of the Tyrells.  As Margaery's patron, so to speak, he's in a position to both influence her, and demand privileges of the Tyrells.

He crowns himself king because he knows Joffrey is illegitimate (hence the Margaery & Robert plot) and doesn't care about social strictures or laws or anything like that.  He wants power.

On 3/12/2018 at 8:31 PM, Leonardo said:

Renly crowns himself or backs Stannis, and we essentially get that in the story...

There is no scenario in which Renly backs Stannis.