Is Robert Baratheon another Mad King?

[Varysblackfyre321]

22 hours ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

Both of them would have. It doesn't stop the fact that both the Boltons and Umbers were used by Robb and Ned despite their rapine and rapacious ways. Robb knew Ramsay was a monster (Hornwood marriage, flaying theon, raping and hunting of women) yet did nothing when told Ramsay was not only alive but 'rescued' the people from Winterfell.

Ned knew nothing of Roose's "hobbies" and the only one whose mentioned Umbers contained the first night is Roose-possible Ned never even heard the rumours.

Same for Robb. 

What could Robb do at the moment he heard Ramsey had taken hostages to the dreadfort?  He did not condone what had happened to lady Hornwood-fact he was furious to hear his men hadn't killed him when he had them try to take back the Hornwood's land.

[Dorian Martell's son]

15 hours ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

Bobby did love his Ned and for a time his Ned loved him back.

That was an idle bromance that faded with time and distance 

[Dorian Martell's son]

6 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

He actually did not. They were still planning rebellion, just waiting for the time they'd have a capable chance.

He did. He brought the bones of the Martells home and diffused the cry for war that Oberyn was screaming. Doran's plans were to screw the Lannisters, not openly rebel against the crown.  Remember, Not going to war = Peace 

6 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

Come on, this is hardly an achievement. No Lord was going to turn down the offer of their daughter marring the new young King. 

It bonded the New King and the throne to what was arguably the most powerful house in the kingdom 

[Dorian Martell's son]

6 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

No, Stannis brought the news to him and I'd imagine that Varys definitely knew before Stannis and Jon. There are question marks over when Littlefinger and Pycelle found out, but the claim that Arryn discovered the twincest found out before anyone is clearly wrong. 

Stannis thought something was wrong. Jon found the proof.  That is discovery. 

6 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

I don't think they are. Jon could not get Robert to curb his spending, allowed the realm to get into huge debt. Could not convince the King to set aside men like Janos Slynt. It was Jon who hired Littlefinger which doomed Robert's reign. Jon could also not convince Robert to do his most important job as King and properly raise his heir, putting his own legacy at risk. 

All in all Jon was a pretty mediocre Hand, not the worst the realm had ever seen but certainly not a good Hand. 

Yes, Jopn could not stop a drunken Bob from spending, nor could he get Slynt fired, but aside from a single quickly put down rebellion, the realm was peaceful for his tenure. Ned was piss poor at court.  The only hand better than Jon that we have seen is Tywin, and he has his own issues 

[the trees have eyes]

2 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

They are really not. He was an average Hand, his performance was not good. 

Do you think Robert is alone in this? That he was the first King with an ego, the first King who was irresponsible? No, of course not, it goes with the job. I dare say that many of the previous Kings, being raised as Prince's, would have egos that far exceed that of Robert. 

If anything Robert's ego was in check. He was aware that the realm was not fully behind him, that he had to appease certain factions to stay in power and was vigilant of outside threats to his throne. 

He didn't though. He let Robert do whatever he wanted to the detriment of the crown, the realm and Robert's dynasty. He mismanaged him. 

Tywin had the same issues with an extravagant spending Aerys a king who was more trigger happy than Robert ever was.

Arryn's not dealing with issues that every single other Hand in the last three centuries has had to deal with.  

 

Well, Hands are like Ministers and all political careers end in failure...except Jon Arryn died in office.  I really can't see that he failed in his principal objectives - securing the peace of the realm and rebuilding the position of the monarchy given Robert was "first among equals" rather than a genuine dragonriding descendant.  Balon's rebellion was the one challenge to his rule and he could hardly have kept Cersei from cuckolding Robert - otherwise the realm was peaceful and the regime established.

Re the bolded ("He mismanaged him"). The Hand serves at the King's pleasure, he stands in for the King, he does not have a job description that requires him to govern in truth if the king is sub-par (as Robert was) or to oppose the king if, e.g. the king wants to spend lavishly.  Imagine Thomas Wolsely or Thomas Cromwell telling Henry VIII he couldn't have what he wanted or there was no money for the next royal banquet and tournament.  They did what he wanted or they lost their heads (and Cromwell did while Wolseley only escaped that fate by dying).  Lots of medieval kings bankrupted their kingdoms - or would have if they had not attainted wealthy noblemen, levied additional and exceptional taxes or dissolved the monasteries and plundered their estates (Henry VIII again).

I agree that Tywin did a decent job, perhaps even a better job than Jon Arryn but look where that led.  Tywin wanted the Crown Prince to marry his daughter so he could put his own grandson on the throne.  Tywin was said to rule the 7K not Aerys.  That caused a breakdown of trust between the two as Tywin appeared almost a rival to Aerys, who went out of his way to put Tywin in his place and so Tywin quit as Hand.  Seems Jon Arryn undestood the limits of the Handship better than Tywin.

So I think Tywin mismanaged Aerys far worse than Jon Arryn mismanaged Robert since one relationship broke down completely, the other functioned successfully right up to Jon's death.  Equally, there are no popular protests in Westeros or even scurrilous and insulting songs about Jon Arryn so the realm seems relatively happy.  Contrast that with medieval councillors or favourites being blamed for all the country's ills and popular revolts demanding their removal while still pledging loyalty to the monarch.  Seems Jon Arryn did ok and no one thought he was a bad hand really. 

BTW I never eulogised him, I merely pointed out that criticism that he was shit (the OP's comment) or pretty mediocre (your comment) was harsh, the OP's comment more so than yours.

31 minutes ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

Yes, Jopn could not stop a drunken Bob from spending, nor could he get Slynt fired, but aside from a single quickly put down rebellion, the realm was peaceful for his tenure. Ned was piss poor at court.  The only hand better than Jon that we have seen is Tywin, and he has his own issues 

Pretty much this.

[Varysblackfyre321]

1 hour ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

id. He brought the bones of the Martells home and diffused the cry for war that Oberyn was screaming. Doran's plans were to screw the Lannisters, not openly rebel against the crown.  Remember, Not going to war = Peace 

So Jon accomplished nothing here? Doran wasn't planning on going to war in the first place.

1 hour ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

It bonded the new King and the throne to what was arguably the most powerful house in the kingdom 

Not really hard to do-literaly no house will refuse.

[Dorian Martell's son]

2 hours ago, the trees have eyes said:

Well, Hands are like Ministers and all political careers end in failure...except Jon Arryn died in office.  I really can't see that he failed in his principal objectives - securing the peace of the realm and rebuilding the position of the monarchy given Robert was "first among equals" rather than a genuine dragonriding descendant.  Balon's rebellion was the one challenge to his rule and he could hardly have kept Cersei from cuckolding Robert - otherwise the realm was peaceful and the regime established.

He was about to do just that. His death stopped him though 

2 hours ago, the trees have eyes said:

Re the bolded ("He mismanaged him"). The Hand serves at the King's pleasure, he stands in for the King, he does not have a job description that requires him to govern in truth if the king is sub-par (as Robert was) or to oppose the king if, e.g. the king wants to spend lavishly.  Imagine Thomas Wolsely or Thomas Cromwell telling Henry VIII he couldn't have what he wanted or there was no money for the next royal banquet and tournament.  They did what he wanted or they lost their heads (and Cromwell did while Wolseley only escaped that fate by dying).  Lots of medieval kings bankrupted their kingdoms - or would have if they had not attainted wealthy noblemen, levied additional and exceptional taxes or dissolved the monasteries and plundered their estates (Henry VIII again).

Jon was the closest thing to a father that Bob had. It is why Bob picked him for hand. I also cannot believe that Bob would have Jon killed for defying him. 

2 hours ago, the trees have eyes said:

I agree that Tywin did a decent job, perhaps even a better job than Jon Arryn but look where that led.  Tywin wanted the Crown Prince to marry his daughter so he could put his own grandson on the throne.  Tywin was said to rule the 7K not Aerys.  That caused a breakdown of trust between the two as Tywin appeared almost a rival to Aerys, who went out of his way to put Tywin in his place and so Tywin quit as Hand.  Seems Jon Arryn undestood the limits of the Handship better than Tywin.

Tywin did a very good Job as hand, almost too good, and it did not stop an insecure king from being preyed upon by his lords.  Tywin wanted in the royal family, just like Walder Frey. 

2 hours ago, the trees have eyes said:

So I think Tywin mismanaged Aerys far worse than Jon Arryn mismanaged Robert since one relationship broke down completely, the other functioned successfully right up to Jon's death.  Equally, there are no popular protests in Westeros or even scurrilous and insulting songs about Jon Arryn so the realm seems relatively happy.  Contrast that with medieval councillors or favourites being blamed for all the country's ills and popular revolts demanding their removal while still pledging loyalty to the monarch.  Seems Jon Arryn did ok and no one thought he was a bad hand really. 

This wasn't about management. Aerys was insane, and got progressively worse over the years. And to the point of this thread, Bob was not in any way mad.  He was a drunk and a spender, but he wasn't crazy  

[Dorian Martell's son]

2 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

So Jon accomplished nothing here? Doran wasn't planning on going to war in the first place.

Oberyn was calling for open warfare, and if enough lords joined him, Doran would be forced to go to war. Jon did a lot. 

2 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Not really hard to do-literally no house will refuse.

But what if another house had another eligible daughter. Say, if Marg was of bleeding age during the rebellion. That would be a big deal. Also, Tywin could very well refuse, especially if his son and heir was sent to the wall never to return.  

[Varysblackfyre321]

14 minutes ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

2 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

 

Oberyn was calling for open warfare, and if enough lords joined him, Doran would be forced to go to war. Jon did a lot. 

Not really. It's very clear Oberyn's efforts for open war-fare was only quiled by Doran's orders/pleas to wait for a more opportune time for vengeance .Jon didn't exacerbate the situation, but he didn't really do anything that actually quenched either.

14 minutes ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

But what if another house had another eligible daughter. Say, if Marg was of bleeding age during the rebellion. That would be a big deal. Also, Tywin could very well refuse, especially if his son and heir was sent to the wall never to return

Not really and there wasn't so mute point. Anyone could refuse a marriage offer from the king-but no one would.

[Universal Sword Donor]

8 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Not really. It's very clear Oberyn's efforts for open war-fare was only quiled by Doran's orders/pleas to wait for a more opportune time for vengeance .Jon didn't exacerbate the situation, but he didn't really do anything that actually quenched either.

I don't think there's any real evidence of Arryn not helping. He was clearly sent to pacify Dorne through whatever means necessary. Doran surely quelled Oberyn but it's not as if Jon Arryn did nothing. Tywin certainly thought Arryn had an effect on the Dornish

8 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Not really and there wasn't so mute point. Anyone could refuse a marriage offer from the king-but no one would.

It means Tywin has to name Tyrion his heir or remarry. I could see Tywin refusing the offer. All he has to say is Cersei doesn't want it.

[Varysblackfyre321]

43 minutes ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

n't think there's any real evidence of Arryn not helping. He was clearly sent to pacify Dorne through whatever means necessary. Doran surely quelled Oberyn but it's not as if Jon Arryn did nothing. Tywin certainly thought Arryn had an effect on the Dornish

Quote

Dorn still wants war. They hunger for vengeance as much as they did when they heard of the atrocity that had happened to their Princess Ellia and her children. Doran was and still is the only thing holding them back. No one said Arryn did nothing-but Arryn's efforts didn't really help the situation. The effects of his efforts amounted to that of pouring a cup of water(to which was his only tool) on a house fire. 

It means Tywin has to name Tyrion his heir or remarry. I could see Tywin refusing the offer. All he has to say is Cersei doesn't want it.

No it doesn't. Tywin will still have have grandsons from the union between Robert and Cersi to which to pick from pressumbly, and nephews to which he can name heir if Tyrion proves too big a dissapointment and is truly so reluctant to remarry to sire another son. Cersi's marriage to Robert wouldnt jepordizs the chance of Tywin having an heir he'd find acceptable. If he refuses he would have prepare for war, or to have his political influence and prestige take a backpedal-no one refuses a marriage offer from the king and gets unscathed for doing so is great insult. Tywin would never pass up the chance for a man with lanister blood to be the reigning monarch of the 7 kingdoms. But  If he did he wouldn't use some lame excuse of Cersi not wanting to marry Robert; who cares about what she wants? Marriage between nobility aren't about indivual wants, it's about a  house's need to secure/increase its standing. And a woman's want is less important still. As her patriarch it is up to Tywin to decide what is best for her. Tywin would seen as a liar(for what girl wouldn't want to marry a king), or that of a weakling for he couldn't even get his 15 year old daughter to obey him in such an important matter.

[Universal Sword Donor]

19 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Dorn still wants war. They hunger for vengeance as much as they did when they heard of the atrocity that had happened to their Princess Ellia and her children. Doran was and still is the only thing holding them back. No one said Arryn did nothing-but Arryn's efforts didn't really help the situation. The effects of his efforts amounted to that of pouring a cup of water(to which was his only tool) on a house fire. 

Dorne still wants revenge, not necessarily war.  Arryn AND Doran prevented open warfare in a fragile kingdom that had just gone through a civil war. Hardly "not helping the situation." 

19 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

It means Tywin has to name Tyrion his heir or remarry. I could see Tywin refusing the offer. All he has to say is Cersei doesn't want it.

No it doesn't. Tywin will still have have grandsons from the union between Robert and Cersi to which to pick from pressumbly, and nephews to which he can name heir if Tyrion proves too big a dissapointment and is truly so reluctant to remarry to sire another son. Cersi's marriage to Robert wouldnt jepordizs the chance of Tywin having an heir he'd find acceptable. If he refuses he would have prepare for war, or to have his political influence and prestige take a backpedal-no one refuses a marriage offer from the king and gets unscathed for doing so is great insult. Tywin would never pass up the chance for a man with lanister blood to be the reigning monarch of the 7 kingdoms. But  If he did he wouldn't use some lame excuse of Cersi not wanting to marry Robert; who cares about what she wants? Marriage between nobility aren't about indivual wants, it's about a  house's need to secure/increase its standing. And a woman's want is less important still. As her patriarch it is up to Tywin to decide what is best for her. Tywin would seen as a liar(for what girl wouldn't want to marry a king), or that of a weakling for he couldn't even get his 15 year old daughter to obey him in such an important matter.

That assumes a lot of things, like Tywin living that long and them having more than one child. Tywin is nothing, if not thorough and pragmatic. He's not going to name nephews heir to the Rock. He wants Jaime as his heir. He always has.

[Varysblackfyre321]

30 minutes ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

Dorne still wants revenge, not necessarily war.  Arryn AND Doran prevented open warfare in a fragile kingdom that had just gone through a civil war. Hardly "not helping the situation." 

Doran prevented open warfare from Dorn-which they did want to do and still wants it(from what could gathered from the stated Pov charachters we see in Dorn and charachters of Dorne who express how they want war and how if you talk to the people they'll say they want the same thing), they see it as as the way to get revenge against the parties that have wronged them. to so much so Doran has become immensely unpopular with his people.

Arryn's efforts didn't really help.

He tried his best but his best didn't really leave an impact on the Dornish people.

He brought back Ellia and her children's remains for burial-didn't really cool down them down. He didn't make the situation worse but he didn't really make it better either. 

30 minutes ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

That assumes a lot of things, like Tywin living that long and them having more than one child. Tywin is nothing, if not thorough and pragmatic. He's not going to name nephews heir to the Rock. He wants Jaime as his heir. He always has.

It assumes Tywin having common sense. Tywin can pick a grandson or an nephew to be his heir. He'd pick that rather than jepordize his house's survival by refusing the marriage proposal. He wants Jaimie. How is refusing the people to which have him in their custody wise then? Worse case war, to which Jaimie is the first to lose his head, best case, the lanisters lose loads of political influence and seen as potential enemies by the new monarchy and Jaime gets sent to the wall out of spite or kept in the king's guard anyway-to which means Tywin can't use him as his heir. Hell, it's likely this was something Tywin had contended with for years now given it wasn't until Cersi dismissed Barristan did he see a way to wiggle Jaimie out.

[the trees have eyes]

2 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

He was about to do just that. His death stopped him though 

Jon was the closest thing to a father that Bob had. It is why Bob picked him for hand. I also cannot believe that Bob would have Jon killed for defying him. 

Tywin did a very good Job as hand, almost too good, and it did not stop an insecure king from being preyed upon by his lords.  Tywin wanted in the royal family, just like Walder Frey. 

This wasn't about management. Aerys was insane, and got progressively worse over the years. And to the point of this thread, Bob was not in any way mad.  He was a drunk and a spender, but he wasn't crazy  

Um, you know most of my post was to Bernie Mac?  I was agreeing with your summary.

Though finding out about the twincest does not prevent the potential succession crisis that the bombshell that all three royal children are illegitimate sets off or restore the damaged pride and image of the cuckolded king who was no longer the warhammer swinging hunk of the rebellion but a sad drunk whose wife had made a weak fool out of him.  What I meant was that the Hand could not be expected to interfere in and police the sexual relations between the royal couple; Bobby B is is supposed to be able to handle that for himself.

Sure, there are very good reasons why Robert picked Jon as Hand and the closeness of their relationship prevented any problems arising - unlike Cromwell and Wolsey with Henry VIII who were mere functionaries and could be dispensed with with no consequences or regrets.  I was highlighting that the Hand is not able to restrain or limit the King's desires, i.e. "manage him" and failing to achieve his wishes is a very dangerous position to be in.  As is trying to steer the king in a direction he does not want to go  rather than offering counsel and carrying out his wishes.  Robert presented no threat to those closest to him though ill-judged defiance - from Ned - could and did produce a furious reaction.  Jon was smart enough and a better poiltician than Ned, hence he was able to persuade Robert not to send assassins after the Targ children after the rebellion.  If Robert had been as set on that course of action then as he was in AGOT I think Jon would have fallen in line.

And exactly.  What makes the Hand successful is a partnership with the king that works.  An incompetent Hand will fail and a competent Hand can see all his efforts ruined by a reckless, mad, drunken or irresponsible king.  Aerys was the first two, Bobby B the latter two.

[Bernie Mac]

5 hours ago, the trees have eyes said:

ismanaged him"). The Hand serves at the King's pleasure, he stands in for the King, he does not have a job description that requires him to govern in truth if the king is sub-par (as Robert was) or to oppose the king if, e.g. the king wants to spend lavishly.  Imagine Thomas Wolsely or Thomas Cromwell telling Henry VIII he couldn't have what he wanted or there was no money for the next royal banquet and tournament.  

Both Wolsley and Cromwell frequently 'managed' Henry. They were able to make him listen and understand, their failings were on Henry's heart, with Wolsley failing to get the correct dispensation from the Pope and Cromwell arranging a marriage to suit his own factional desires. 

And both men had to appease the Pope as well as the King, had to appease other European monarchs, were men of low birth with no power of their own (they have more in common with Littlefinger, Davos or Baath than they do Arryn) and a King who was a romantic rather than one who was happy shagging anything that moved and held no deep attachment to any of them. 

The Hand of the King, especially Hand's who are hugely powerful Lords in their own right, are really nothing like the King's men of Henry's court, men who were despised by the nobility and had everyone against them with only Henry propping them up. Their positions are only similar on the surface level. 

5 hours ago, the trees have eyes said:

I agree that Tywin did a decent job, perhaps even a better job than Jon Arryn but look where that led.  Tywin wanted the Crown Prince to marry his daughter so he could put his own grandson on the throne.  Tywin was said to rule the 7K not Aerys.  That caused a breakdown of trust between the two as Tywin appeared almost a rival to Aerys, who went out of his way to put Tywin in his place and so Tywin quit as Hand.  Seems Jon Arryn undestood the limits of the Handship better than Tywin.

The Hand is supposed to co rule. Arryn was not allowed to a Robert simply did what he wanted, which was to ignore responsibilities. 

Arryn and Ned were not brought to serve as Hand, they were brought to Kings Landing to coddle a King, neither were good Hands. 

5 hours ago, the trees have eyes said:

So I think Tywin mismanaged Aerys far worse than Jon Arryn mismanaged Robert since one relationship broke down completely

It may well have done, but then he did not remain as Hand afterwards.

5 hours ago, the trees have eyes said:

BTW I never eulogised him, I merely pointed out that criticism that he was shit (the OP's comment) or pretty mediocre (your comment) was harsh, the OP's comment more so than yours.

Calling him average (mediocre)  is not harsh, it is what his performance warrants. 

 

6 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

Stannis thought something was wrong. Jon found the proof.  That is discovery. 

He didn't find the proof, he was still investigating. That is why his last words were a subtle clue rather than a full blown revelation. 

6 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

Yes, Jopn could not stop a drunken Bob from spending, nor could he get Slynt fired, but aside from a single quickly put down rebellion, the realm was peaceful for his tenure. Ned was piss poor at court.  The only hand better than Jon that we have seen is Tywin, and he has his own issues 

Baarth clearly was better, likely the best Hand Westeros has ever had. Viserys II also was better, I'd put him second. Baelor to. Robar seems to have done well with bringing the realm into peace following the instability of Maekar's reign. The blind, gelded Tyland defied expectations to show that he was a strong Hand in his short reign. I'd also add Osmond Strong to that list. And these are just the men we know. 

In the pantheon of Hands Arryn would be somewhere in the middle. 

 

 

6 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

He did. He brought the bones of the Martells home and diffused the cry for war that Oberyn was screaming. Doran's plans were to screw the Lannisters, not openly rebel against the crown.  Remember, Not going to war = Peace 

He was planning on rebelling. Viserys was to be King, that kind of screws Robert. 

6 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

It bonded the New King and the throne to what was arguably the most powerful house in the kingdom 

Yeah, but few if any Houses would turn down such a marriage. 

It is hardly something in to boast about, to find a wife for the most powerful man in the kingdom.

[Dorian Martell's son]

2 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Not really. It's very clear Oberyn's efforts for open war-fare was only quiled by Doran's orders/pleas to wait for a more opportune time for vengeance .Jon didn't exacerbate the situation, but he didn't really do anything that actually quenched either.

Yes really. It is called diplomacy. Research on it and why it is important and why say, bringing the bones of a dead prince home would do something to ease the call for war 

3 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Not really and there wasn't so mute point. Anyone could refuse a marriage offer from the king-but no one would.

Yes really, and it is "Moot" not mute. And yes, there would be people who would refuse a marriage offer from the king. 

[Dorian Martell's son]

37 minutes ago, the trees have eyes said:

Um, you know most of my post was to Bernie Mac?  I was agreeing with your summary.

I did, but I chose to answer back anyway. It is known 

[Universal Sword Donor]

1 hour ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Doran prevented open warfare from Dorn-which they did want to do and still wants it(from what could gathered from the stated Pov charachters we see in Dorn and charachters of Dorne who express how they want war and how if you talk to the people they'll say they want the same thing), they see it as as the way to get revenge against the parties that have wronged them. to so much so Doran has become immensely unpopular with his people.

Arryn's efforts didn't really help.

He tried his best but his best didn't really leave an impact on the Dornish people.

Doran definitely made the Dornish bend to his will. Who do you think pointed out to him that Dorne would be crushed if they raised another army in rebellion to Robert? After losing 10k men --a large portion of their fighting strength -- they would not be doing too well to fight. If Arryn had really nothing to do or could do nothing, Oberyn would not have been writing letters and sent messengers to raise Dorne's banners. Doran would have stopped that before it started.

1 hour ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

He brought back Ellia and her children's remains for burial-didn't really cool down them down. He didn't make the situation worse but he didn't really make it better either. 

He brought back Llewyn's bones. I don't recall him bringing back Elia's body nor the children. Given how they died, that was probably a smart thing to do.

1 hour ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

It assumes Tywin having common sense. Tywin can pick a grandson or an nephew to be his heir. He'd pick that rather than jepordize his house's survival by refusing the marriage proposal. He wants Jaimie. How is refusing the people to which have him in their custody wise then? Worse case war, to which Jaimie is the first to lose his head, best case, the lanisters lose loads of political influence and seen as potential enemies by the new monarchy and Jaime gets sent to the wall out of spite or kept in the king's guard anyway-to which means Tywin can't use him as his heir. Hell, it's likely this was something Tywin had contended with for years now given it wasn't until Cersi dismissed Barristan did he see a way to wiggle Jaimie out.

How is his house going to be jeopardized if he refuses a marriage to Robert. Robert let all his enemies remain with their lands and titles. Tywin's men handed him the capital and single-handedly assured a smooth (or as smooth as one can get in rebellion) succession to his crown. Jaime killed the man who wanted Robert dead. The dragons were gone. How and why could Robert even begin to justify killing Jaime, let alone crushing the Lannisters for saying no?

[Universal Sword Donor]

4 minutes ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

Yes really, and it is "Moot" not mute. And yes, there would be people who would refuse a marriage offer from the king. 

Ask Olenna

[Dorian Martell's son]

27 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said:

 He didn't find the proof, he was still investigating. That is why his last words were a subtle clue rather than a full blown revelation. 

His subtle clue was because he knew he was poisoned and did not want to endanger those close to him 

28 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said:

Baarth clearly was better, likely the best Hand Westeros has ever had. Viserys II also was better, I'd put him second. Baelor to. Robar seems to have done well with bringing the realm into peace following the instability of Maekar's reign. The blind, gelded Tyland defied expectations to show that he was a strong Hand in his short reign. I'd also add Osmond Strong to that list. And these are just the men we know. 

In the pantheon of Hands Arryn would be somewhere in the middle. 

I'll give you that

29 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said:

He was planning on rebelling. Viserys was to be King, that kind of screws Robert. 

I was not talking about Doran's  long game. I was talking about Oberyn's call for open immediate rebellion. We also do not have a timeline for when the dornish pact was signed. We only know if was before Darry died 

31 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said:

Yeah, but few if any Houses would turn down such a marriage. 

It is hardly something in to boast about, to find a wife for the most powerful man in the kingdom.

Bob could have picked marriage from one of the three allied kingdoms he fought with, or with a kingdom he fought against. But  he listened to Jon and took the arrainged union.