Spockydog Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 5 minutes ago, SeanF said: There's plenty we can do diplomatically and economically, as Which Tyler's post shows. I'm sorry, but nothing in that post amounts to anything that will damage Putin in any way whatsoever. Unless we had the full support of NATO and the EU, which, thanks to Theresa May's government, we do not. Putin knows we are weak and isolated, otherwise this poisoning would never have happened. They would just have thrown the dude out of a hotel window or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 6 minutes ago, Spockydog said: I'm sorry, but nothing in that post amounts to anything that will damage Putin in any way whatsoever. Unless we had the full support of NATO and the EU, which, thanks to Theresa May's government, we do not. Putin knows we are weak and isolated, otherwise this poisoning would never have happened. They would just have thrown the dude out of a hotel window or something. These incidents have happened in the past and in other Western countries. You're correct that we can't do anything directly to hurt Putin, but we can hurt some of those who are close to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljkeane Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 8 minutes ago, Spockydog said: I'm sorry, but nothing in that post amounts to anything that will damage Putin in any way whatsoever. Unless we had the full support of NATO and the EU, which, thanks to Theresa May's government, we do not. There's always been significant elements of the EU which aren't big fans of the current levels of sanctions on Russia so I doubt they'd be enthusiastic about tougher sanctions anyway and the problem with NATO is Trump's unreliability so I'm not sure what it's really got to do with May. 8 minutes ago, Spockydog said: Putin knows we are weak and isolated, otherwise this poisoning would never have happened. They would just have thrown the dude out of a hotel window or something. They assassinated Litvinenko with radioactive material in 2006. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liffguard Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 Freezing and/or confiscating Russian assets in London could go a fair way. Putin's powerbase is the Russian oligarchy, and I'm told there's a lot of Russian money swilling around the London property and financial markets. Hit them in the wallet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Which Tyler Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 4 minutes ago, ljkeane said: rial in 2006. They weren't exacatly subtle about it either: The guy who did Litvinenko? Ex-kgb, ex-fsb, Became an MP almost immediately after the poisoning. They found amounts of the poison in his hotel rooms, on the planes he flew on and when he went back to Russia he was in hospital for several days with radiation poisoning himself. Not suspicious at all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 33 minutes ago, Spockydog said: So, just a load of meaningless bollocks. I'm sure Putin and his cronies are quaking in their mansions. Ahh, so you don't actually know much about Russia. Fucking with the oligarchs money is not meaningless and is one of the things Putin and the people who run Russia hate the most. There's a reason they were meeting with Trump's campaign to exchange dirt on Clinton for killing the Magnitsky Act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Spockydog said: I haven't got a clue. OK, then. So that would suggest that we agree that Corbyn calling for a 'robust dialogue' is pointless and therefore stupid. You can't have it both ways. Either you can play Cassandra and tell us Putin can do whatever he likes with absolute impunity, or you can praise Corbyn's call for 'dialogue' as 'adult'. You can only do the latter if you can tell us what that 'dialogue' looks like, what it might achieve and how it might achieve it. Otherwise, Corbyn's call for 'dialogue' is just as much posturing as May's speech is. It's just a different posture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 2 hours ago, Which Tyler said: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-43380378What could the UK do? A boycott of the Fifa World Cup in Russia later this year The United States stands firm with our British allies on this move! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, Maithanet said: The United States stands firm with our British allies on this move! Scotland already beat you to that joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pebble thats Stubby Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 It appears Russia may have killed again. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/13/russian-exile-nikolai-glushkov-found-dead-at-his-london-home If this turns out to be in anyway a suspicious death - Too early to tell - as we don't yet have the facts it could be a natural death. Then I'd say we are well past any pretense of firm dialogue. I don't know what exactly we can do, but we really need to do something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pebble thats Stubby Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 6 minutes ago, Maithanet said: The United States stands firm with our British allies on this move! or it did until Tillerson was fired. "As soon as we get the facts straight, if we agree with them, we will condemn Russia or whoever it may be" - President Trump on Salisbury poisoning. https://twitter.com/BBCBreaking/status/973554768189599744 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 4 minutes ago, Pebble said: or it did until Tillerson was fired. "As soon as we get the facts straight, if we agree with them, we will condemn Russia or whoever it may be" - President Trump on Salisbury poisoning. https://twitter.com/BBCBreaking/status/973554768189599744 Do you think that with Tillerson gone we'll be able to replay that awful Trinidad and Tobago game? We should have fired Tillerson a long time ago... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isis Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 'Unexplained Wealth Orders' <-- right, so we basically dgaf about unexplained wealth unless we're really ticked off with the people who brazenly display it. Hmmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 2 hours ago, Shryke said: Ahh, so you don't actually know much about Russia. Fucking with the oligarchs money is not meaningless and is one of the things Putin and the people who run Russia hate the most. There's a reason they were meeting with Trump's campaign to exchange dirt on Clinton for killing the Magnitsky Act. Get real. There is about as much chance of this Tory government taking punitive measures against the Russian oligarchs than there is Ryan and McConnell et al doing anything at all about the Russian puppets currently running amok in the US political system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 13 minutes ago, Spockydog said: Get real. There is about as much chance of this Tory government taking punitive measures against the Russian oligarchs than there is Ryan and McConnell et al doing anything at all about the Russian puppets currently running amok in the US political system. This was not your original criticism though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 7 minutes ago, Shryke said: This was not your original criticism though. What are you talking about? My first post on this topic was in support of Corbyn for pointing out just how deep the Tories are swimming in Russian cash. Then Mormont pointed out how dumb it is for Corbyn to want dialogue with the Russians, barely a week after the UK basically running out of gas. Until we're no longer dependent on those vodka-swilling loons for large parts of our national energy consumption, Putin can do basically whatever the fuck he likes. Much like those Saudi cocksuckers we are also in thrall to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 The main problem for me with what Corbyn said was that when he said 'robust dialogue' he wasn't just referring to this- he was referring to all issues. What he was basically saying when it comes down to it was 'don't cut diplomatic ties with Russia'. Which was a silly thing to say because no-one was entertaining the idea that we should, so all he's done is give his opponents an opening to bang the 'see, Corbyn is soft on Russia' drum. And then he turned it party-political at a time when he really shouldn't have been. For sure, money going from Russia to the Tories is something to talk about, but doing it now was a terrible look. He used to not want to play that kind of attack game to the point it held him back and made him meek, and now he's leapt to the other end of the scale with a completely mistimed attack. It's a terrible look on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, polishgenius said: The main problem for me with what Corbyn said was that when he said 'robust dialogue' he wasn't just referring to this- he was referring to all issues. What he was basically saying when it comes down to it was 'don't cut diplomatic ties with Russia'. Which was a silly thing to say because no-one was entertaining the idea that we should, so all he's done is give his opponents an opening to bang the 'see, Corbyn is soft on Russia' drum. And then he turned it party-political at a time when he really shouldn't have been. For sure, money going from Russia to the Tories is something to talk about, but doing it now was a terrible look. He used to not want to play that kind of attack game to the point it held him back and made him meek, and now he's leapt to the other end of the scale with a completely mistimed attack. It's a terrible look on him. Nah. Saying that now is not the time to talk about the Tories links to Russia is bollocks. Now is precisely the time to highlight it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 And while we're at it, we might also have a proper look at Bozo, Gove, and all those other Brexit wankers' links to the Kremlin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 The ability of Britain to hurt Russian interests is significant. The sanctions we have in place on Russia now are annoying enough to Putin and the oligarch circle and the UK, EU and USA can go a lot further. We can't put the squeeze on like we could with North Korea - it's unlikely that China would join in with a heavy sanctions regime - but we can damage Russia's economy far more than we have so far. Some EU countries are keener for better relations with Russia, but there seems to be an appetite in some others for a much more robust response to Putin to dissuade him from any further adventures in eastern Europe. The problem is if this kind of action may act as a spur to that action in the first place. Certainly the Baltic States are probably not happy about the ratcheting up of the tensions, even with tens of thousands of NATO troops on their soil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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