Are the extended seasons evidence of time loops?

[Clegane'sPup]

52 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

one big weirdness.

That is my thought about time travel and loops.

 

[Melifeather]

18 minutes ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

ah. To myself and many sci fi nerds, Time loops are very specific. Like groundhog's day 

It’s inspired by time loops, but with a twist. Instead of people being given the opportunity to relive their own lives, they’re placed in repeated historical events in the hopes that they will achieve a different outcome.

[Melifeather]

1 hour ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Once you have mastered your gifts, you may look where you will and see what the trees have seen, be it yesterday or last year or a thousand ages past. Men live their lives trapped in an eternal present, between the mists of memory and the sea of shadow that is all we know of the days to come. Certain moths live their whole lives in a day, yet to them that little span of time must seem as long as years and decades do to us.

Love this quote! It is perfect! Everyone is trapped in an eternal present...a wheel turning round and around.

[hiemal]

3 minutes ago, Feather Crystal said:

Love this quote! It is perfect! Everyone is trapped in an eternal present...a wheel turning round and around.

Turning, it seems to me, like tumblers in a lock that will align according to prophecy and allow time to move forward properly once more.

[Clegane'sPup]

8 minutes ago, Feather Crystal said:

Everyone is trapped in an eternal present...a wheel turning round and around.

On average children think their parents stupid. When the children become parents they realize their parents knew what they were talking about. Now the children’s children think they are stupid ---- is that a loop?

[Melifeather]

1 hour ago, The Fattest Leech said:

As far as seasons as evidence of time loops??? I don't know. I can't say that I see that connection yet. The irregularity does seem to be connected to magic, and if the final battle sets things right (the song of ice and fire battle, not the Others battle), then things should come back to harmony.

Sorry for breaking up your post into multiple posts. 

I wanted to return to why I think the extended seasons are evidence. It has to do with positioning the correct people to relive a specific event. The abducted maiden event must have taken place during summer, because I had noted six or seven separate maidens during this last ten year long summer that were abducted. In theory there should be ten different maidens...one per year.

[Melifeather]

15 minutes ago, hiemal said:

Turning, it seems to me, like tumblers in a lock that will align according to prophecy and allow time to move forward properly once more.

Perhaps. Kind of. 

Is it really prophecy if you’re aware of these history loops, knowing that the season is right for a specific event?

[Melifeather]

14 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

On average children think their parents stupid. When the children become parents they realize their parents knew what they were talking about. Now the children’s children think they are stupid ---- is that a loop?

I suppose, but not the kind I’m describing.

[kissdbyfire]

3 hours ago, Feather Crystal said:

It is a type of time loop, only the time as defined by a clock hasn't changed. And nobody is time traveling, but rather historic events are constantly looping. What does change are the people who live during the historic event, and the end result. 

I'll start by saying I'm not trying to be difficult or anything... but I fail to understand why you are thinking about history repeating as a theory. I don't think I was clear, let me try again. 

Yes, history repeats itself, and you've listed a number of good examples. But why does it need to be a "thing"? Or why can't it simply be the author using something we are all familiar w/ - the idea that history does repeat itself - to help him w/ worldbuilding, to add flavour, and as a good way to drop a few hints? 

I've been thinking about this since I read the OP. What changes if the fact that history repeats itself becomes a theory instead of being just what it seems to be at first glance? And I honestly can't think of anything.

[Lost Melnibonean]

3 hours ago, Feather Crystal said:

Who is talking about the show? This is all from the books.

It was a joke... "extended seasons," get it? 

[Melifeather]

18 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

It was a joke... "extended seasons," get it? 

I do now!  

[Melifeather]

32 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

I'll start by saying I'm not trying to be difficult or anything... but I fail to understand why you are thinking about history repeating as a theory. I don't think I was clear, let me try again. 

Yes, history repeats itself, and you've listed a number of good examples. But why does it need to be a "thing"? Or why can't it simply be the author using something we are all familiar w/ - the idea that history does repeat itself - to help him w/ worldbuilding, to add flavour, and as a good way to drop a few hints? 

I've been thinking about this since I read the OP. What changes if the fact that history repeats itself becomes a theory instead of being just what it seems to be at first glance? And I honestly can't think of anything.

Because its very much "a thing". History is repeating itself so much it stands out like a sore thumb, at least to me. 

Going back to Tyrion's boat ride down the Rhoyne under the Bridge of Dream...the whole thing is symbolic of Tywin and Rhaegar - for if Tyrion managed to land with Aegon back on Westeros it will be a repeat of what happened at the Trident. The second trip under the bridge was a disaster, and Aegon will be a repeat disaster as well. Jon Con's plan is literally like the stone men that he is becoming. Stuck in his ways. Stuck repeating the same history. Aegon will likely turn down Arianne's proposal or miss her altogether. No alliance for the Dornish and the Rhoynar this turn of the history cycle. It was a good thing Tyrion was abducted by Jorah Mormont, even if the interim before he meets Dany was less than idyllic. 

[hiemal]

1 hour ago, Feather Crystal said:

Perhaps. Kind of. 

Is it really prophecy if you’re aware of these history loops, knowing that the season is right for a specific event?

Until a better term comes to me. It's something I've been thinking about.

[kissdbyfire]

5 minutes ago, Feather Crystal said:

Because its very much "a thing". History is repeating itself so much it stands out like a sore thumb, at least to me. 

Going back to Tyrion's boat ride down the Rhoyne under the Bridge of Dream...the whole thing is symbolic of Tywin and Rhaegar - for if Tyrion managed to land with Aegon back on Westeros it will be a repeat of what happened at the Trident. The second trip under the bridge was a disaster, and Aegon will be a repeat disaster as well. Jon Con's plan is literally like the stone men that he is becoming. Stuck in his ways. Stuck repeating the same history. Aegon will likely turn down Arianne's proposal or miss her altogether. No alliance for the Dornish and the Rhoynar this turn of the history cycle. It was a good thing Tyrion was abducted by Jorah Mormont, even if the interim before he meets Dany was less than idyllic. 

None of what you've said here answers my question... 

I already said I'm not disputing the fact that history repeats itself - though never quite the same each time. Now, how does this idea becoming a theory change anything? It's a theory leading to... what? What's the impact it will have in the story if it's a theory as opposed to being just a fact of life on Planetos? 

[Melifeather]

54 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

None of what you've said here answers my question... 

I already said I'm not disputing the fact that history repeats itself - though never quite the same each time. Now, how does this idea becoming a theory change anything? It's a theory leading to... what? What's the impact it will have in the story if it's a theory as opposed to being just a fact of life on Planetos? 

I believe that the Children and Bloodraven are trying to use this history loop to affect real change to correct a mistake that the Children felt they made that “broke” the planet.

[Rufus Snow]

1 hour ago, kissdbyfire said:

I already said I'm not disputing the fact that history repeats itself - though never quite the same each time. Now, how does this idea becoming a theory change anything? It's a theory leading to... what? What's the impact it will have in the story if it's a theory as opposed to being just a fact of life on Planetos?

Maybe that's the point? Trying things over and over until it finally 'works'? Now, who is 'trying' and what 'works' might mean is a whole new kettle of fish....

[kissdbyfire]

36 minutes ago, Feather Crystal said:

I believe that the Children and Bloodraven are trying to use this history loop to affect real change to correct a mistake that the Children felt they made that “broke” the planet.

Gotcha, tks for clearing that up. I don't really think that's what's happening, but no way of knowing for sure w/ the info we have so far. It's certainly possible. 

2 minutes ago, Rufus Snow said:

Maybe that's the point? Trying things over and over until it finally 'works'? Now, who is 'trying' and what 'works' might mean is a whole new kettle of fish....

No one is actively trying anything that causes history to repeat itself imo. We shall see...

 

[Lost Melnibonean]

3 hours ago, Feather Crystal said:

I do now!  

[Lost Melnibonean]

4 hours ago, Clegane'sPup said:

That is my thought about time travel and loops.

 

Me three.

[Lost Melnibonean]

3 hours ago, Feather Crystal said:

Because its very much "a thing". History is repeating itself so much it stands out like a sore thumb, at least to me. 

Going back to Tyrion's boat ride down the Rhoyne under the Bridge of Dream...the whole thing is symbolic of Tywin and Rhaegar - for if Tyrion managed to land with Aegon back on Westeros it will be a repeat of what happened at the Trident. The second trip under the bridge was a disaster, and Aegon will be a repeat disaster as well. Jon Con's plan is literally like the stone men that he is becoming. Stuck in his ways. Stuck repeating the same history. Aegon will likely turn down Arianne's proposal or miss her altogether. No alliance for the Dornish and the Rhoynar this turn of the history cycle. It was a good thing Tyrion was abducted by Jorah Mormont, even if the interim before he meets Dany was less than idyllic. 

The Sorrows are filled with fog, a sorcerous fog according to Ysilla. She advised that many boats had been lost in some kind of Bermuda Triangle like phenomenon with restless spirits in the air and tormented souls below the water. Tyrion suggested one of the tormented souls was manifested in a huge stone hand reaching from the water with the tops of two fingers rising above the surface. Was this a natural object that looked like a hand or was it a submerged sculpture? And was there some hint in the object being a hand rather than a head or a sword or something else?

According to legend, Garin a prince of the Rhoynish, had led a huge army against the Valyrians at Chroyane, but they defeated his army and captured him and hung him in a golden cage. He called on the great river to destroy them. The river rose and drowned the invaders. The legend suggested that the Valyrian corpses under the water cause the fog, and that a reincarnated Garin leads the stone men as the Shrouded Lord. And Ysilla suggests that the Valyrian corpses walk among the stone men. The current Shrouded Lord was a corsair from the Basilisk Isles, whose native inhabitants have dark skin.

After the stone hand and a few more landmarks, they encountered another boat called the Kingfisher. Was there a hint in that name? As they approached the bridge the first time, Griff advised that the stone men were not likely to molest them, but more likely just to wail at them. Haldon noted that their boat would be hidden by the fog, and Tyrion noted that many of the stone men would be blind. As they passed under the bridge that first time, the stone men moaned and muttered; most took no more notice of the Shy Maid than of a drifting log.

Immediately after they passed, Young Griff confronted Tyrion about Young Griff being everything. At the end of about two minutes worth of conversation, Tyrion revealed his own identity, Griff's identity, and Young Griff's presumed identity. Griff tells him to be quiet, and then, shazam, they're back at the stone hand going in for another run under the bridge.

They passed several of the landmarks Tyrion noticed the first time, but they did not pass the Kingfisher. This time, a few of the stone men were pointing down at them, and three jumped down to molest them. The first landed on the cabin roof, the second by the tiller. The second was near Ysilla and Duck. Duck knocked him into the water immediately. Griff attacked the other as soon as soon as he came down from the cabin. He was trapped but drew Griff, Duck, Haldon, and Yandry to drive him off the boat.

A third stone man caught them by surprise. Tyrion assumed he was a Summer Islander because of his dark skin, but a corsair from the Basilisk Isles would have had dark skin too. This stone man reached for Young Griff who had just been revealed by Tyrion to be (or presumed to be) the son of Rhaegar Targaryen. He would have taken Young Griff who appeared paralyzed by fear or shock but Tyrion drove him over the side of the boat.

So, I'm guessing that Martin was telling the reader that the Shrouded Lord was the reincarnation of Garin and that Garin's spirit heard Tyrion reveal that Young Griff was a Targaryen of old Valyria. Through some supernatural power Garin's spirit caused the Shy Maid's weird rewind so he could capture Young Griff.

Alternatively, perhaps the spirits of old Valyria under the water heard Tyrion but sensed Young Griff's true identity as a Blackfyre, caused the weird rewind, and sent the Shrouded Lord to capture him.