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US Politics: Stormy Weather Ahead


Fragile Bird

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5 minutes ago, The Great Unwashed said:

Anyone watching Tillerson's presser? I'm at work and can't watch.

He went out like an adult. With dignity and decency.

At the same time you got the feeling he wanted to cry. Nothing like being kicked like a dog.

I doubt we’ll see nasty stories from him. Maybe one day.

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2 hours ago, Fragile Bird said:

Remind me of past issues - wasn’t a Bush era Justice department lawyer or lawyers fingered for writing a memo in support of ‘enhanced interrogation’, and lost a job or promotion?

The torture memos were in large part authored by John Yoo, although Alberto Gonzalez played an active role in running them up the flagpole - and did write one of the memos himself.  Gonzalez of course eventually became AG, and Jay Bybee - namesake of the infamous "Bybee memo" (that was written by Yoo) - is now a federal judge.  Yoo returned to academia and is at Berkeley, where he must have a ton of fans.

2 hours ago, TheKitttenGuard said:

Yeah this is more the shameful lagacy of Obama.

Um, what?  "Enhanced interrogation techniques" were entirely the invention of the Bush administration.  Obama issues EOs rescinding the above memos two days after taking office, and in 2015 passed a bill codifying the ban on torture so the law could not be subverted by such memos in the future.  Sure, Guantanamo Bay is one of Obama's biggest failures, and he largely looked the other way (I suppose appropriately) on rendition, but the legacy of torture is squarely on Dubya's shoulders.

3 hours ago, unpaid comintern said:

Tillerson was, impressively, perhaps the worst SoS in history in only 13 months.  However, this is a reminder to never say "it can't get worse."  We haven't had a true believer like Pompeo as the top diplomat since Dulles.

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3 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

He went out like an adult. With dignity and decency.

At the same time you got the feeling he wanted to cry. Nothing like being kicked like a dog.

I doubt we’ll see nasty stories from him. Maybe one day.

I saw neither. He went out like a dog. Beaten and servile.

It's still less then that piece of shit deserves.

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8 minutes ago, Mexal said:

Bolton + Trump + Pompeo will get us all killed.

Yes Bolton and Pompeo as NSA and SOS is the disquieting than anything the Trump administration has done thus far.

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6 minutes ago, dmc515 said:

Yes Bolton and Pompeo as NSA and SOS is the disquieting than anything the Trump administration has done thus far.

We're going to be fighting a war in central Europe to defend our allies from unchecked Ukranian insolence within the year.

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23 minutes ago, Shryke said:

I saw neither. He went out like a dog. Beaten and servile.

It's still less then that piece of shit deserves.

Hey, I said he looked like he wanted to cry. But he put his big boy pants on and controlled his anger. He said there are things that can be done when there’s leadership, and that the bigger view is that you serve more than the current president. He thanked everyone in the States Department and 300 million people in the US (leaving out the base????) and he certainly did not thank Trump for letting him serve.

He looked like he was actually shaking. I think he did a helluva job just reading that statement. And no, I didn’t like or admire Tillerson.

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14 minutes ago, dmc515 said:

The torture memos were in large part authored by John Yoo, although Alberto Gonzalez played an active role in running them up the flagpole - and did write one of the memos himself.  Gonzalez of course eventually became AG, and Jay Bybee - namesake of the infamous "Bybee memo" (that was written by Yoo) - is now a federal judge.  Yoo returned to academia and is at Berkeley, where he must have a ton of fans.

Um, what?  "Enhanced interrogation techniques" were entirely the invention of the Bush administration.  

Damn, I was under the impression they suffered consequences.

I’m pretty sure, after puzzling over that post, that TheKitten was being sarcastic.

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6 minutes ago, dmc515 said:

Um, what?  "Enhanced interrogation techniques" were entirely the invention of the Bush administration.  Obama issues EOs rescinding the above memos two days after taking office, and in 2015 passed a bill codifying the ban on torture so the law could not be subverted by such memos in the future.  Sure, Guantanamo Bay is one of Obama's biggest failures, and he largely looked the other way (I suppose appropriately) on rendition, but the legacy of torture is squarely on Dubya's shoulders.

Well it is clear Obama did not fire her.

I think Obama should of done more to clean out the Intelligence Service of the torturers. That he did not was gave what was done some legitimacy. 

Guantanamo I see more of a failure of the Democratic Party for the Republicans went NIMBY and no Democrat stood up to state to take the prisoners to show they are not afraid. I do not recall any doing so and so they gave legitimacy to the warnings the Republicans stated.

 

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3 minutes ago, TheKitttenGuard said:

I think Obama should of done more to clean out the Intelligence Service of the torturers. That he did not was gave what was done some legitimacy. 

Ok, but that doesn't change the fact Dubya and Obama's respective legacies on torture are fairly diametrically opposed, with the latter reversing the former's attempt to legalize certain methods. 

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9 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

Hey, I said he looked like he wanted to cry. But he put his big boy pants on and controlled his anger. He said there are things that can be done when there’s leadership, and that the bigger view is that you serve more than the current president. He thanked everyone in the State America and 300 million people in the US (leaving out the base????) and he certainly did not thank Trump for letting him serve.

He looked like he was actually shaking. I think he did a helluva job just reading that statement. And no, I didn’t like or admire Tillerson.

He was mocked and fired like Trump didn't give a shit about him and then forced to stand up and hold back tears while reading out a statement but was so pathetic he can't even talk about all the shit that actually matters or would actually effect someone who wasn't a pathetic lackey. Instead, he tried to list his accomplishments and came up with nothing because he's accomplished nothing except the dismantling of one of the US's most important government institutions.

Nothing you mention here is to his credit.

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5 minutes ago, Shryke said:

He was mocked and fired like Trump didn't give a shit about him and then forced to stand up and hold back tears while reading out a statement but was so pathetic he can't even talk about all the shit that actually matters or would actually effect someone who wasn't a pathetic lackey. Instead, he tried to list his accomplishments and came up with nothing because he's accomplished nothing except the dismantling of one of the US's most important government institutions.

Nothing you mention here is to his credit.

*shrugs*

I prefer my adults to adult.

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6 minutes ago, dmc515 said:

Ok, but that doesn't change the fact Dubya and Obama's respective legacies on torture are fairly diametrically opposed, with the latter reversing the former's attempt to legalize certain methods. 

Ooops, I guess Kittie wasn't being sarcastic.  

13 minutes ago, TheKitttenGuard said:

Well it is clear Obama did not fire her.

I think Obama should of done more to clean out the Intelligence Service of the torturers. That he did not was gave what was done some legitimacy. 

 

We tread in dangerous territory here. There would have been thousands to fire if Obama had that attitude.

What to me is more important is whether or not she supported torture or felt she had a job to do and did it. She has to be seriously questioned on the issue of torture. Laws were passed that were supposed to stop that conduct. She should be asked if she would resign if Trump asked her to re-institute torture practices.

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15 minutes ago, dmc515 said:

Ok, but that doesn't change the fact Dubya and Obama's respective legacies on torture are fairly diametrically opposed, with the latter reversing the former's attempt to legalize certain methods. 

Without prosecution or significant removals made what occured as simply policy and not a very serious act against what we proclaim to be important.

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I swear to God, the next thread I open is going to be called Just Another Slow News Day. :lol:

Did anyone mention the fact that the spokesperson for ICE in San Francisco resigned because he was sick and tired of telling lies for Sessions? It's ok for him, he probably has two dozen job offers already in California. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/03/13/ice-spokesman-resigns-over-false-statements-by-top-officials-about-calif-immigrant-arrests/?utm_term=.7554d8ef259a

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7 minutes ago, TheKitttenGuard said:

Without prosecution or significant removals made what occured as simply policy and not a very serious act against what we proclaim to be important.

Prosecute them for what? Torturing outside the US was pretty much legal (DOJ came up with a legal basis for what they did) and it was based on proclamation from the top. If you're going to fire and prosecute everyone who engaged in this, you'd have to start with Bush.

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I'm not gonna lie. I'm pretty excited for this PA-18.

I think I was fine until he went campaigning there this weekend. I need it guys, I need it to be close. I know a win would be just so unlikely. But show me the wave is still there!

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4 minutes ago, Pony Queen Jace said:

I'm not gonna lie. I'm pretty excited for this PA-18.

I think I was fine until he went campaigning there this weekend. I need it guys, I need it to be close. I know a win would be just so unlikely. But show me the wave is still there!

I'll be voting for Lamb this evening. 

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