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Dancing With Dragons


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3 hours ago, Megorova said:

My theory is based entirely, on what was written in the books. Other people don't get it, but it doesn't mean that I'm wrong. My theory connects all pieces into one completed picture. So it's very unlikely that I'm wrong, because there's evidences all over, in all previous books, that support my theory.

Your theory is based on what you think. Not what is written in the books. There is no evidence that Rhaego was born alive, we have no reason to think he was taken from her and he can't be old enough to impact the story let alone ride a dragon by the time Dany gets to Westeros. 

There is evidence that Rhaego was truly deformed as other Targaryens have birthed similarly deformed children, non of whom have lived. All but one was like Rhaego born dead and the only one that survived birth died within an hour. 

You say that the names are a clue but then say Viserion is for Jon without explaining how the name links to Jon? You say Viserion might be a female dragon, based on the fact it made a home in the pyramid. 

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the white dragon had flown back to its lair above Meereen. 

As you can see the author used the word Lair, not nest. Your calling it a nest and using that alone to decide it is female. But the books tell us Dragons are able to change their sex as needed. And then decide the dragon should be called Visenya as though this explains why the name links to Jon. It doesn't even if Rhaegar was aiming for a girl as his third child surely if he was trying to recreate the Targaryen siblings his first daughter would have been Visenya. 

Long hair is a symbol of fertility and children? Is it. Really? 

If this means the rider of Rhaegal will be Rhaego, and that he will indeed become supreme leader of the world then he's going to have to do that at age 4/5, and the books will have turned out ultimately to have been about him all along as world leader is kinda the biggest position anyone can attain, so for a story ultimately about Rhaego he's failed to feature in it for 4 books.

Since when were only male Targaryens dragons? Viserion was a dickhead he thought he was the last dragon, but that doesn't mean Dany isn't a dragon. It only means he was a sexist knob. The link between Viserys's self aggrandisement and Jon being the last male Targaryen is a bit tenuous if it is all you've got to say Viserion will be Jon's dragon. And for the record I think Jon will indeed be a dragon rider. But that is too weak a link to base which dragon he rides on. 

You use the fact Dany expected a Visenya from Rhaegar to explain that Rhaegal is a girl? based on the fact Drogo is larger than the other two. Drogo is larger because he is the boldest and gets most meat growing up, then because he evades capture and is able to continue flying nd hunting whilst the others are chained. It is established in world that Dragons grow stunted when kept chained. And as has been established Dragons change sex according to both Septon Barth and Maester Aemon. Who are pretty reliable sources. 

Next you make the point that Dany & Jon are both third children, but you think Rhaego a first child is the other rider? 

P.S I agree the third child thing is interesting and you know who else is a third child and possibly a Targaryen by blood Tyrion! 

All third children and all their mothers die birthing them. And all established main characters from the beginning of the whole book series with point of view chapters. Amazing if the books turn out to be mostly about the main characters and not a baby who featured in the early chapters and is dead. 

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5 hours ago, Unacosamedarisa said:

Also, if Rhaego is one of the heads of the dragon... Where is he?

Most likely in Vaes Dothrak, where Dany will be soon reunited with him. She will see him, and immediately recognise him as her son. Because how many Dothraki boys there are, that have silver-gold hair and violet eyes?

"Her son was tall and proud, with Drogo’s copper skin and her own silver-gold hair, violet eyes shaped like almonds."

5 hours ago, Unacosamedarisa said:

When will he make his reappearance in the story?

Probably in first or second chapter with Dany's POV in TWOW (if there will be Dany's POV in TWOW).

5 hours ago, Unacosamedarisa said:

Where has he been for the last 4 books?

Traveling with Dothraki from Red Waste to Vaes Dothrak, and then living with dosh khaleen, in a Dothraki temple near Mother of Mountains.

5 hours ago, Unacosamedarisa said:

Who smuggled him away and why and how?

Pono or Jhago.

Because Rhaego is their relative, blood of their blood. In their eyes, Dany is an evil witch, that doomed their Khal. First by letting Mirri Maz Duur to tent his wounds, and then by using forbidden for Dothraki blood magic. Of course they had to save the boy, from being corrupted by her. He is the Stallion that will mount the world, and he is their blood. Thus they can't just leave him to be raised by that woman.

So they kidnapped the baby, and it was first out of three treasons, the one for blood. For the sake of their blood/relative/Rhaego. They did it for him.

Prophecies from the House of Undying are also in sets of three, where one is from past, the other is from close future, and the third are from future in Westeros.

"three fires must you light . . . one for life and one for death and one to love . . . Her own heart was beating in unison to the one that floated before her, blue and corrupt . . . three mounts must you ride . . . one to bed and one to dread and one to love . . . The voices were growing louder, she realized, and it seemed her heart was slowing, and even her breath. . . . three treasons will you know . . . once for blood and once for gold and once for love . . . "

Now in order of happening:

- first mount to ride, the one to bed - Dany's first husband Drogo; The meaning of those mounts, that she will "ride", is not where they will bring her, but rather what she should do with them - to bed first of them, and as result of that "bedding", to give birth to his child; to dread her second husband, because he married her only to betray her, and rule in her place; and to love the last one.

- first treason, once for blood - Drogo's Ko kidnapping Rhaego;

- first fire, one for life - Dany's dragons hatching at Drogo's funeral pyre;

- second mount, to dread - Hizdahr, her second husband, who is either a Harpy himself, or is a Harpy's associate;

- second treason, for gold - Hizdahr betraying Dany, to become a sole ruler of Meereen, and to get lots of gold, amongst other things, that he will have, as a King of Meereen;

- second fire, for death - probably Dany will burn all Dothraki Khals, and in their place, become ruler of all khalasars. And this will happen when Drogon will burn Khals - "Beneath the Mother of Mountains, a line of naked crones crept from a great lake and knelt shivering before her, their grey heads bowed." - she will spare only dosh khaleen, but will execute all Khals.

- third mount, to love - Jon Snow, Dany's third and last husband;

- third treason, for love - could be that Tyrion will betray Dany, to be accepted by Lannisters.

- third fire, for love - either Dany will burn Undead Army, to help Jon, or it could be something else, but also related to Jon.

And about how the baby was kidnapped - simple. They just went to Drogo's tent, and while Dany was still unconsciousness, they just took her baby and carried him away. Most likely, the only people that know about it, is Mirri and Jorah. Though maybe Dany's maids also knew about it. But what's the point of saying it to her? They couldn't have stopped those Kos, on their side were tens of thousands of Dothraki. So they let them to take the baby, and said to Dany that the baby was born dead. What else could they have done? If she knew the truth, then she would have wanted to go after them. And then they all would have been killed by those Dothraki, that left Drogo's khalasar.

5 hours ago, Unacosamedarisa said:

Why did none of Dany's handmaids tell her that her child survived?

Or they weren't even there, when the baby was born. Because they were afraid to go inside, because of blood magic. So until Mirri called them in, they were staying away from there. And the labor lasted for many hours, because it was Dany's first pregnancy. So Dany's maids were probably sleeping, when her baby was born, and then taken away by Dothraki. And on the next morning Khal Pono left, and after that Khal Jhago, and thousands Dothraki went with them, and with the Stallion, which was taken by one of them.

Those people that stayed with Dany, were children, elderly and cripples. In hierarchy of Dothraki, they have a low place. Thus in their camp, they were settled far far far far from their Khal's tent. Thus none of them knew, what was happening near it. Because people around Drogo's tent, were his Ko, and his best warriors, etc. And all of them left with the Stallion, and Pono, and Jhago. And Jhago is the one, whom Dany met in the Dothraki Sea, in her last chapter in ADWD.

5 hours ago, Unacosamedarisa said:

Where's the hint or clue that things happened differently to how we were told with Rhaego?

Here:

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Wings shadowed her fever dreams.

“You don’t want to wake the dragon, do you!”

(This is what the unborn baby experienced inside Dany's body)

She was walking down a long hall beneath high stone arches. She could not look behind her, must not look behind her. There was a door ahead of her, tiny with distance, but even from afar, she saw that it was painted red. She walked faster, and her bare feet left bloody footprints on the stone.

(Maester Marwyn stopped internal bleeding, with something hot. Quaithe was also there)

“You don’t want to wake the dragon, do you!” She saw sunlight on the Dothraki sea, the living plain, rich with the smells of earth and death. Wind stirred the grasses, and they rippled like water. Drogo held her in strong arms, and his hand stroked her sex and opened her and woke that sweet wetness that was his alone, and the stars smiled down on them, stars in a daylight sky. “Home,” she whispered as he entered her and filled her with his seed, but suddenly the stars were gone, and across the blue sky swept the great wings, and the world took flame.

“…don’t want to wake the dragon, do you!”

(Maester Marwyn did his job, and went back. He and Quaithe weren't physically there. Either they were using glass candles, or some other magic. In same manner Quaithe came to Dany on board of Balerion ship, then in Meereen, and then in the last chapter in ADWD.)

Ser Jorah’s face was drawn and sorrowful. “Rhaegar was the last dragon,” he told her. He warmed translucent hands over a glowing brazier where stone eggs smouldered red as coals. One moment he was there and the next he was fading, his flesh colorless, less substantial than the wind. “The last dragon,” he whispered, thin as a wisp, and was gone. She felt the dark behind her, and the red door seemed farther away than ever.

“…don’t want to wake the dragon, do you!”

(Dany was attacked by Dothraki, she was traumatised, and had an internal bleeding. Maester Marwyn stopped the bleeding, but the baby was still in danger. Because placenta got detached from the womb, and the baby wasn't getting nutriens from it. So they had to stimulate labor, for the baby to survive. Breasts stimulation is used to induce labor. As result of it, the body releases hormone oxytocin, which brings on full labor, by making contractions stronger and longer. In traditional inductions, doctors often use the drug Pitocin, which is a synthetic form of oxytocin.)

Viserys stood before her, screaming. “The dragon does not beg, slut. You do not command the dragon. I am the dragon, and I will be crowned.” The molten gold trickled down his face like wax, burning deep channels in his flesh. “I am the dragon and I will be crowned!” he shrieked, and his fingers snapped like snakes, biting at her nipples, pinching, twisting, even as his eyes burst and ran like jelly down seared and blackened cheeks.

“…don’t want to wake the dragon…”

(This is again what the baby experienced. The baby in the mother's body is upside down. So the way out, that is a red door, after passing thru which, the life begins, is ahead. While placenta is up, on the opposite side, that's that ice breath behind - damaged placenta. And to die a death that is more than death, is to die even prior being born, death of unborn baby is more than death, because the baby that died in the womb, never even lived.)

The red door was so far ahead of her, and she could feel the icy breath behind, sweeping up on her. If it caught her she would die a death that was more than death, howling forever alone in the darkness. She began to run.

“…don’t want to wake the dragon…”

(And this is what Dany felt)

She could feel the heat inside her, a terrible burning in her womb. Her son was tall and proud, with Drogo’s copper skin and her own silver-gold hair, violet eyes shaped like almonds. And he smiled for her and began to lift his hand toward hers, but when he opened his mouth the fire poured out. She saw his heart burning through his chest, and in an instant he was gone, consumed like a moth by a candle, turned to ash. She wept for her child, the promise of a sweet mouth on her breast, but her tears turned to steam as they touched her skin.

“…want to wake the dragon…”

(Mix of what felt Dany and the baby. And those ghosts of Targaryen kings, with Valyrian blades, that cried as one, was actually one person, someone who combines in herself their bloodline - Quiathe, who is actually Dany's relative Shiera Seastar. There are hints in the books, about her real identity.)

Ghosts lined the hallway, dressed in the faded raiment of kings. In their hands were swords of pale fire. They had hair of silver and hair of gold and hair of platinum white, and their eyes were opal and amethyst, tourmaline and jade. “Faster,” they cried, “faster, faster.” She raced, her feet melting the stone wherever they touched. “Faster!” the ghosts cried as one, and she screamed and threw herself forward. A great knife of pain ripped down her back, and she felt her skin tear open and smelled the stench of burning blood and saw the shadow of wings. And Daenerys Targaryen flew.

“…wake the dragon…”

The door loomed before her, the red door, so close, so close, the hall was a blur around her, the cold receding behind. And now the stone was gone and she flew across the Dothraki sea, high and higher, the green rippling beneath, and all that lived and breathed fled in terror from the shadow of her wings. She could smell home, she could see it, there, just beyond that door, green fields and great stone houses and arms to keep her warm, there. She threw open the door.

“…the dragon…”

(Rhaego was born, and saw his mother)

And saw her brother Rhaegar, mounted on a stallion as black as his armor. Fire glimmered red through the narrow eye slit of his helm. “The last dragon,” Ser Jorah’s voice whispered faintly. “The last, the last.” Dany lifted his polished black visor. The face within was her own.

(Quaithe stayed with Dany after that)

After that, for a long time, there was only the pain, the fire within her, and the whisperings of stars.

Jorah and Mirri agreed beforehand, what they will lie to Dany, about what happened with her baby. But he was ashamed, that he could do nothing, to stop those Dothraki, from taking away Dany's baby. So in the end, he was unable to lie, while facing her, so Mirri had to step up:

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“Weak? I am strong, Jorah.” To please him, she reclined on a pile of cushions. “Tell me how my child died.”

He never lived, my princess. The women say…” He faltered, and Dany saw how the flesh hung loose on him, and the way he limped when he moved.

“Tell me. Tell me what the women say.”

He turned his face away. His eyes were haunted. “They say the child was…

She waited, but Ser Jorah could not say it. His face grew dark with shame. He looked half a corpse himself.

“Monstrous,” Mirri Maz Duur finished for him. The knight was a powerful man, yet Dany understood in that moment that the maegi was stronger, and crueler, and infinitely more dangerous. “Twisted. I drew him forth myself. He was scaled like a lizard, blind, with the stub of a tail and small leather wings like the wings of a bat. When I touched him, the flesh sloughed off the bone, and inside he was full of graveworms and the stink of corruption. He had been dead for years.”

Darkness, Dany thought. The terrible darkness sweeping up behind to devour her. If she looked back she was lost. “My son was alive and strong when Ser Jorah carried me into this tent,” she said. “I could feel him kicking, fighting to be born.

(This is obvious lies. And she added about death being in that tent, because people of those times were primitive, superstitious, and believed in all sorts of bullshit, if it was spiced with flavor of magic. And it doesn't even matter, whether the magic element was really there, or not. Primitive people are inclined to believe in tall tales.)

That may be as it may be,” answered Mirri Maz Duur, “yet the creature that came forth from your womb was as I said. Death was in that tent, Khaleesi.

“Only shadows,” Ser Jorah husked, but Dany could hear the doubt in his voice. “I saw, maegi. I saw you, alone, dancing with the shadows.”

“The grave casts long shadows, Iron Lord,” Mirri said. “Long and dark, and in the end no light can hold them back.”

Ser Jorah had killed her son, Dany knew. He had done what he did for love and loyalty, yet he had carried her into a place no living man should go and fed her baby to the darkness. He knew it too; the grey face, the hollow eyes, the limp. “The shadows have touched you too, Ser Jorah,” she told him. The knight made no reply.

(He kept quiet, because he knew, that he wasn't touched by shadows. It wasn't shadows, who took the baby away. He was there, he saw what really happened - Dothraki took Rhaego.)

Even that Mirri's story is a lie, is obvious, from what exactly she said about Rhaego.

"I drew him forth myself. He was scaled like a lizard, blind, with the stub of a tail and small leather wings like the wings of a bat. When I touched him," - if he disintegrated when she touched him, then when exactly did she had time, to notice all of his features?

And in a mere seconds, prior he dissolved, she noticed that his eyes were blind? But according to her story, he was born dead. Aren't babies born with closed eyes, and open them only after they begin breathing?

Also how exactly was she holding the baby, that between her pulling the baby out, and the baby's flesh dissolving, she managed to see BOTH - his front (his blind eyes), and his back too (his wings, and even his small tail :huh:)? 

"the flesh sloughed off the bone, and inside he was full of graveworms and the stink of corruption." - Ok, let's believe that the flesh sloughed off, but then, WHERE'S THE BABY'S SKELETON? The bones DIDN'T melted or disappeared. So where are they?

"He had been dead for years." - as Dany said, she felt the baby, and it was alive. He WASN'T dead for years.

All evidences are there, in the book. Rhaego was born alive, and he was a normal baby. And then Dothraki took him away, for blood, for the sake of Drogo, to protect his baby.

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2 hours ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

There is no evidence that Rhaego was born alive, we have no reason to think he was taken from her

Read my previous post.

2 hours ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

You say that the names are a clue but then say Viserion is for Jon without explaining how the name links to Jon?

Dany's brother Viserys, thought that he was the last dragon. Dragon is a male Targaryen. The last male Targaryen is Jon. Last born person with dragon blood, is Dany's son Rhaego, but he is Rhaego son of Drogo, not Rhaego Targaryen. Like children of Catelyn Tully, are not Tullys, they are Robb Stark, Sansa Stark, etc. Dany's children will be dragonseeds, but they won't be on Targaryens' family tree, and they won't have Targaryen last name.

Also Viseryon's coloring is pale/cream, bronze and gold - Snow, First Men (Starks), King. Drogo's black and red - smoke and blood. Rhaegel - green and bronze - Dothraki Sea and their bronze arakhs.

Viseryon's egg hatched first.

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She heard a crack, the sound of shattering stone. The platform of wood and brush and grass began to shift and collapse in upon itself. Bits of burning wood slid down at her, and Dany was showered with ash and cinders. And something else came crashing down, bouncing and rolling, to land at her feet; a chunk of curved rock, pale and veined with gold, broken and smoking.

Jon was born first. But Jon will become a last, third dragonrider, because that egg became alive the last out of three, and was placed the last on Drogo's funeral pyre.

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“Bring…I want to hold…”

“Yes?” the maegi asked. “What is it you wish, Khaleesi?”

“Bring me…egg…dragon’s egg…please…” Her lashes turned to lead, and she was too weary to hold them up.

When she woke the third time, a shaft of golden sunlight was pouring through the smoke hole of the tent, and her arms were wrapped around a dragon’s egg. It was the pale one, its scales the color of butter cream, veined with whorls of gold and bronze, and Dany could feel the heat of it. Beneath her bedsilks, a fine sheen of perspiration covered her bare skin. Dragondew, she thought. Her fingers trailed lightly across the surface of the shell, tracing the wisps of gold, and deep in the stone she felt something twist and stretch in response. It did not frighten her. All her fear was gone, burned away.

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She climbed the pyre herself to place the eggs around her sun-and-stars. The black beside his heart, under his arm. The green beside his head, his braid coiled around it. The cream-and-gold down between his legs.

Did you ever thought that it's weird, that third egg she placed between his legs, and not under his right arm? I think that were those three eggs were placed is a hint. Black egg near Drogo's heart, and Dany named that dragon by her husband's name - Drogon. And she bonded with him, and became his dragonrider. He is closest to her heart, in a spiritual sense. Second was placed near Drogo's head, and his braid was coiled around it, which is a hint that Rhaegel's dragonrider will be Drogo's son, and that he will also be a undefeated Dothraki, khal of khals. And placement of third egg, between Drogo's legs, is an indication, that third dragonrider, Viseryon's, will be Dany's lover, her "mount", third mount from the prophecy, the one to love.

2 hours ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

You say Viserion might be a female dragon, based on the fact it made a home in the pyramid. 

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the white dragon had flown back to its lair above Meereen. 

As you can see the author used the word Lair, not nest. Your calling it a nest and using that alone to decide it is female.

ADWD, The Dragontamer:

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Rhaegal was chained to the wall and floor the last time I was here, the prince recalled, but Viserion hung from the ceiling. Quentyn stepped back, lifted the torch, craned his head back.

For a moment he saw only the blackened arches of the bricks above, scorched by dragonflame. A trickle of ash caught his eye, betraying movement. Something pale, half-hidden, stirring. He’s made himself a cave, the prince realized. A burrow in the brick. The foundations of the Great Pyramid of Meereen were massive and thick to support the weight of the huge structure overhead; even the interior walls were three times thicker than any castle’s curtain walls. But Viserion had dug himself a hole in them with flame and claw, a hole big enough to sleep in.

And we’ve just woken him. He could see what looked like some huge white serpent uncoiling inside the wall, up where it curved to become the ceiling. More ash went drifting downward, and a bit of crumbling brick fell away. The serpent resolved itself into a neck and tail, and then the dragon’s long horned head appeared, his eyes glowing in the dark like golden coals. His wings rattled, stretching.

Could be that caves under Dragonstone, were also made by dragons. They burned and dug stones, and made for themselves those caves, where they lived, and layed their eggs. So dragonglass on Dragonstone, could be not volcanic, it could be result of dragonflame.

2 hours ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

Long hair is a symbol of fertility and children? Is it. Really?

Yes. Really. Google it.

http://www.rooshv.com/long-hair-in-women-correlates-to-beauty-fertility-and-health

http://time.com/4348252/history-long-hair/

Long hair is a sign of health, and fertility. There's also certain hormone, that if a woman has a lack of it, then she has thin hair and is infertile.

And I have read somewhere, that supposedly ancient women (cave people), were growing their hair long, to wrap with it their child, to keep it from cold. That's when it supposedly started, that women have long hair, and men has short.

3 hours ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

Drogo is larger because he is the boldest and gets most meat growing up

His egg was larger than the other two.

3 hours ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

Next you make the point that Dany & Jon are both third children, but you think Rhaego a first child is the other rider? 

He's also child of three, only in a different sense.

The Undying said to Dany - the child of three.

Jeny's woodswitch gave a prophecy to Jaehaerys, that his descendant will be the promised Prince. Thus Rhaego is a child of three - Jaehaerys II, Aerys II, and Dany, descendant of three dragons. Jon's three is Jaehaerys, Aerys and Rhaegel. And Dany's three is Jaehaerys, Aerys and Rhaella (Dany is a female, so one of her three, is also a female).

3 hours ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

Amazing if the books turn out to be mostly about the main characters and not a baby who featured in the early chapters and is dead. 

Could be that Second Long Night, and the winter will last for generation. And thus current characters will ever see a spring only in their dreams. And that's why the last book is called A Dream of Spring. Dany in her vision saw this: "A tall lord with copper skin and silver-gold hair stood beneath the banner of a fiery stallion, a burning city behind him." - why grown up Rhaego is burning a city? Maybe because that city is infested by wights? That matches with what GRRM said about ASOIAF's ending - bittersweet. Rhaego is the last dragon, the winter and Long Night is still ongoing, but one day he will annihilate all wights, and then the spring will come, because that's what the prophecy said.

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On 3/17/2018 at 3:21 PM, zandru said:

If Brown Ben Plumm gets a dragon, it will because he stole it, not because he's thrown in with Daenerys. Think of it! A sellsword company with its own air support! They can charge anything they want! Probably they won't go up against Team Daenerys until Ben has had a chance to use his dragon(s) in some battles, get some experience to add to his extensive on the ground battle knowledge. Then Dany and Drogon are toast, along with the rest of her troops.

The three dragons will always be loyal to Daenerys.  She is the Mother of Dragons.  She hatched them from petrified eggs.  Basically, she gave them life.  

On 3/17/2018 at 5:51 PM, Allardyce said:

Dance in the sense that they will get a dragon?  None of them.  They all have or had the potential to be a Dany ally. 

Well, if we go by the theory that her dragons are from wild stock, it means the whole process of domestication can begin again.  However, this is a special case in which a human hatched the dragon eggs and nursed them.  So I don't think they will bond with anyone who doesn't have their mother's approval.  Dany haters don't want to hear that but I think it is the truth.

 

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13 minutes ago, Aline de Gavrillac said:

The three dragons will always be loyal to Daenerys.  She is the Mother of Dragons.  She hatched them from petrified eggs.  Basically, she gave them life.  

Well, if we go by the theory that her dragons are from wild stock, it means the whole process of domestication can begin again.  However, this is a special case in which a human hatched the dragon eggs and nursed them.  So I don't think they will bond with anyone who doesn't have their mother's approval.  Dany haters don't want to hear that but I think it is the truth.

So the dragons won't "dance" then? 

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7 minutes ago, Aline de Gavrillac said:

Not with those partners.  Marwyn will dance with Daenerys, in terms of joining her team, but not to ride her dragons.  Vicky will try but I do not expect him to succeed.  He'll be alone on the dance floor without a partner.

But when the George tells us that tthe dragons will dance, doesn't that mean they will fight each other? 

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6 hours ago, Aline de Gavrillac said:

The three dragons will always be loyal to Daenerys.  She is the Mother of Dragons.  She hatched them from petrified eggs.  Basically, she gave them life.  

Well, if we go by the theory that her dragons are from wild stock, it means the whole process of domestication can begin again.  However, this is a special case in which a human hatched the dragon eggs and nursed them.  So I don't think they will bond with anyone who doesn't have their mother's approval.  Dany haters don't want to hear that but I think it is the truth.

 

 

I'm a little worried that Rheagal and Visearon might not be as loyal as you think. I really hope that deanerys keeps control of all three dragons but she did lock these two away.

If a mother took her four year old child and locked him/her in the basement and came to visit that child once maybe twice a day to feed that child it wouldn't matter if she's the birth mother that child is going to grow up very angry at her. This child might throw a temper tantrum or run away and marry someone that the mother doesn't like just because that child knows the mother won't like that person. Either way the bond between mother and child has been broken.

This is pretty much what deanerys has unintentionally done. She chained up two of her children for something Drogon did, on top of that the bad child escaped punishment and is currently off bonding with mother. Visearon and Rheagal have escaped the cave and could potentially bond with anyone including one of Deanerys enemies. Once a bond has been made then the bond has been made the dragons won't need Deanerys permission to bond with someone.

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20 hours ago, WildlingWitch said:

 

I'm a little worried that Rheagal and Visearon might not be as loyal as you think. I really hope that deanerys keeps control of all three dragons but she did lock these two away.

If a mother took her four year old child and locked him/her in the basement and came to visit that child once maybe twice a day to feed that child it wouldn't matter if she's the birth mother that child is going to grow up very angry at her. This child might throw a temper tantrum or run away and marry someone that the mother doesn't like just because that child knows the mother won't like that person. Either way the bond between mother and child has been broken.

This is pretty much what deanerys has unintentionally done. She chained up two of her children for something Drogon did, on top of that the bad child escaped punishment and is currently off bonding with mother. Visearon and Rheagal have escaped the cave and could potentially bond with anyone including one of Deanerys enemies. Once a bond has been made then the bond has been made the dragons won't need Deanerys permission to bond with someone.

Did the direwolves start hating the Starks for putting them in kennels?  No.  The remaining direwolves knew Lady died, and maybe even how she died.  Did they start hating the Starks?  No.  Dany's bond with her dragons is a lot stronger than the bond of the Starks to their dogs.  She hatched and nursed her dragons.  The Starks just found theirs.  

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34 minutes ago, Aline de Gavrillac said:

Did the direwolves start hating the Starks for putting them in kennels?  No.  The remaining direwolves knew Lady died, and maybe even how she died.  Did they start hating the Starks?  No.  Dany's bond with her dragons is a lot stronger than the bond of the Starks to their dogs.  She hatched and nursed her dragons.  The Starks just found theirs.  

 

I'm not sure why you're bringing up the Starks and their direwolves? I didn't use them as an example. I'm also well aware that the bond between the Starks and their direwolve are different to to Deanerys and her dragons. This is something I've pointed out many time on many different forums.

The Starks say that they are one with their direwolves but the treat them like pets so the direwolve know that they are pets. Deanerys treats her dragons as children. When a child thinks that they have been wronged they act out. 

As I said in my post I want deanerys to keep all three dragons I just think she may need to reforge her relationship with two of them.

It just feels like in order to fully create a bond with Drogon she had to sever her bond with the other two. Will be happy to be proven wrong though.

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On 18/03/2018 at 9:36 PM, Megorova said:

Read my previous post.

Dany's brother Viserys, thought that he was the last dragon. Dragon is a male Targaryen. The last male Targaryen is Jon. Last born person with dragon blood, is Dany's son Rhaego, but he is Rhaego son of Drogo, not Rhaego Targaryen. Like children of Catelyn Tully, are not Tullys, they are Robb Stark, Sansa Stark, etc. Dany's children will be dragonseeds, but they won't be on Targaryens' family tree, and they won't have Targaryen last name.

Also Viseryon's coloring is pale/cream, bronze and gold - Snow, First Men (Starks), King. Drogo's black and red - smoke and blood. Rhaegel - green and bronze - Dothraki Sea and their bronze arakhs.

Viseryon's egg hatched first.

Jon was born first. But Jon will become a last, third dragonrider, because that egg became alive the last out of three, and was placed the last on Drogo's funeral pyre.

Did you ever thought that it's weird, that third egg she placed between his legs, and not under his right arm? I think that were those three eggs were placed is a hint. Black egg near Drogo's heart, and Dany named that dragon by her husband's name - Drogon. And she bonded with him, and became his dragonrider. He is closest to her heart, in a spiritual sense. Second was placed near Drogo's head, and his braid was coiled around it, which is a hint that Rhaegel's dragonrider will be Drogo's son, and that he will also be a undefeated Dothraki, khal of khals. And placement of third egg, between Drogo's legs, is an indication, that third dragonrider, Viseryon's, will be Dany's lover, her "mount", third mount from the prophecy, the one to love.

ADWD, The Dragontamer:

Could be that caves under Dragonstone, were also made by dragons. They burned and dug stones, and made for themselves those caves, where they lived, and layed their eggs. So dragonglass on Dragonstone, could be not volcanic, it could be result of dragonflame.

Yes. Really. Google it.

http://www.rooshv.com/long-hair-in-women-correlates-to-beauty-fertility-and-health

http://time.com/4348252/history-long-hair/

Long hair is a sign of health, and fertility. There's also certain hormone, that if a woman has a lack of it, then she has thin hair and is infertile.

And I have read somewhere, that supposedly ancient women (cave people), were growing their hair long, to wrap with it their child, to keep it from cold. That's when it supposedly started, that women have long hair, and men has short.

His egg was larger than the other two.

He's also child of three, only in a different sense.

The Undying said to Dany - the child of three.

Jeny's woodswitch gave a prophecy to Jaehaerys, that his descendant will be the promised Prince. Thus Rhaego is a child of three - Jaehaerys II, Aerys II, and Dany, descendant of three dragons. Jon's three is Jaehaerys, Aerys and Rhaegel. And Dany's three is Jaehaerys, Aerys and Rhaella (Dany is a female, so one of her three, is also a female).

Could be that Second Long Night, and the winter will last for generation. And thus current characters will ever see a spring only in their dreams. And that's why the last book is called A Dream of Spring. Dany in her vision saw this: "A tall lord with copper skin and silver-gold hair stood beneath the banner of a fiery stallion, a burning city behind him." - why grown up Rhaego is burning a city? Maybe because that city is infested by wights? That matches with what GRRM said about ASOIAF's ending - bittersweet. Rhaego is the last dragon, the winter and Long Night is still ongoing, but one day he will annihilate all wights, and then the spring will come, because that's what the prophecy said.

I did read your previous post, the only thing it indicates is that YOU think it is possible. It does not in any way prove it nor even highlight text from the books that insinuates it. 

No I never thought that was weird. She's placing the eggs at the "life point" on his body Head = Mind. Heart = keeps you physically alive, groin= passion. It isn't a hint at all, you contradict yourself enormously here btw by saying the groin indicates a lover will ride the dragon from that egg because it implies someone she has sex with representing the third mount the one to love. But you also say that Drogons egg goes next to Drogo's heart because he is her husband the one she loves. Also your supposed fertility symbol is for women, yet Rheago was male. 

How does quoting the part about the caves prove anything? You havne't answered any of my points here.

Oh My Good Grief!!! D you seriously just post a link to RooshV in order to substantiate your argument. I think that is a first for me. Possibly for the forum full stop.  I won't even sully myself to read that drivel.  

This is complete unsubstantiated nonsense. Cave women wrapped their babies in their hair, that is why men have short hair. Holy molly. You are aware that throughout history men's hair styles have frequently swung between long and short, and that other cultures; you know outside of the west have other trends, some where men's hair is short some where it has been long and some where women's hair is kept short and others where it is grown etc.

Also babywearing which is the long practised across multiple cultures around the world throughout history right up to and including the modern day; is the practice of using cloth and or animal skins to wrap ones infant to your body in order to facilitate travel, feeding, comfort, and manoeuvrability. It keeps baby warm because you share body heat and baby regulates their internal temperature in response to Mums.  Anyone who has ever had a baby knows that wrapping them in your hair would be firstly fucking stupid, and secondly would be fucking painful. I mean have you ever felt what it is like to have a baby grab a fistful of your hair and yank it?  And you think human women wrapped them up in it? 

Yes, but as I said the books suggest to us that Maester Aemon and Septon Barth have the right of it and Dragons are able to change sex according to need. So it is all a bit mute isn't it.  

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Jeny's woodswitch gave a prophecy to Jaehaerys, that his descendant will be the promised Prince. Thus Rhaego is a child of three - Jaehaerys II, Aerys II, and Dany, descendant of three dragons. Jon's three is Jaehaerys, Aerys and Rhaegel. And Dany's three is Jaehaerys, Aerys and Rhaella (Dany is a female, so one of her three, is also a female).

This is gibberish. The woodswitch gave a prophesy that TPTWP would come from the line of Aerys & Rhaella. Which tells us Stannis can not be it as his line is not from their union. You can't just change what child of three means in order to shoehorn Rhaego into that descriptor. In your explanation for Rhaego your saying he is the third descendant of Jaehaerys chronologically but that is nonsense you abandon Rhaella in your line for Rhaego and Jon but have to put her in in order to make your idea work for Dany. Either Rhaella is a person who is relivant in this line of descent or she isn't. You don't get to ignore her till you need her. I'm going to assume you meant Rhaegar for Jon cos if not then WTF? 

Dany is Female so one of her three is female. Total crap. You just couldn't get your daft theory to work otherwise. 

That vision was of a possible future 

 

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She could feel the heat inside her, a terrible burning in her womb. Her son was tall and proud, with Drogo's copper skin and her own silver-gold hair, violet eyes shaped like almonds. And he smiled for her and began to lift his hand toward hers, but when he opened his mouth the fire poured out. She saw his heart burning through his chest, and in an instant he was gone, consumed like a moth by a candle, turned to ash. She wept for her child, the promise of a sweet mouth on her breast, but her tears turned to steam as they touched her skin.

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My son is dead, she thought as Jhiqui left the tent. She had known somehow. She had known since she woke the first time to Jhiqui's tears. No, she had known before she woke. Her dream came back to her, sudden and vivid, and she remembered the tall man with the copper skin and long silver-gold braid, bursting into flame.
She should weep, she knew, yet her eyes were dry as ash. She had wept in her dream, and the tears had turned to steam on her cheeks. All the grief has been burned out of me, she told herself. She felt sad, and yet … she could feel Rhaego receding from her, as if he had never been.
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Then phantoms shivered through the murk, images in indigo. Viserys screamed as the molten gold ran down his cheeks and filled his mouth. A tall lord with copper skin and silver-gold hair stood beneath the banner of a fiery stallion, a burning city behind him. Rubies flew like drops of blood from the chest of a dying prince, and he sank to his knees in the water and with his last breath murmured a woman's name. . . . mother of dragons, daughter of death . . . Glowing like sunset, a red sword was raised in the hand of a blue-eyed king who cast no shadow. A cloth dragon swayed on poles amidst a cheering crowd. From a smoking tower, a great stone beast took wing, breathing shadow fire. . . . mother of dragons, slayer of lies . . . Her silver was trotting through the grass, to a darkling stream beneath a sea of stars. A corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright in his dead face, grey lips smiling sadly. A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness. . . . mother of dragons, bride of fire . . .

The first two quotes are from AGOT when Dany is in her fever dream she knows Rhaego has died. And then when she awakes it is confirmed by her handmaiden. She feels him slip away and she knows he is dead. She is a Targaryen and she has prophetic dreams. This dream told her that her son was dead. The chances of that being a mistake are slim we have no other examples in text of a Targs dream being wrong. Sometimes they don't understand what their dreams mean. But they're always correct once that meaning becomes clear. This one is clear as day. she knows in her heart and her gut her baby died.  

The last quote; the one you have sited is from a drug induced trip. And whilst all the aspects of it do indeed connect to Dany's story and are of events past and present and furture. They relate to the aspect of her that is named in the cloosing words of each section. the section containing the quote about Rhaego pertains to Death. Each person featured in it is dead. Viserys, Rhaego, Rhaegar. All dead. Stannis, fAegon, Euron (my guess for the stone beast.) are all lies. The last three are her husbands. As the key word is Bride.

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Oh And another thing. Dragons are not male Targaryens. Dany is a Dragon. In the sense that the term is used to refer to Targaryens who are worthy of that title. The fact that so far only men have been termed that is Westerosi history only demonstrates the sexism of their society. The name is given to Targaryens who are seen as strong, competent, leaders, capable, noble, etc. There have been several women who fall under that description. Danaerys being one of them. 

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1 hour ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

This dream told her that her son was dead.

No, it didn't.

"And he smiled for her and began to lift his hand toward hers, but when he opened his mouth the fire poured out. She saw his heart burning through his chest, and in an instant he was gone, consumed like a moth by a candle, turned to ash."

Fire pouring out of his mouth, could be not indication of something deadly, on the contrary, it could be indication, that he is a red priest, and that fire from his mouth is kiss of life.

Burning heart is Asshai's symbol of Azor Ahai or R'hllor, or something like that. Currently is used by Melisandre and Stannis, fake Azor Ahai.

The part - he was gone - doesn't mean that he died. He was taken by fire. Which could be metaphorical, not literal. Red priests serve to R'hllor for life, thus their lives were taken from them and their families, and they devoted those lives to serving to R'hllor.

Next part - consumed like a moth by a candle, turned to ash - He was consumed/taken by fire, doesn't equal to him dying. Moth is consumed by a candle. Moth by candle is turned to ash. That doesn't mean that Rhaego was consumed by a cadle and turned to ash. It's just that his disappearance, him being taken by fire (not dying, just devoting his life to R'hllor), was compared to how moth is getting consumed by a candle and turns to ash.

That text can be interpreted differently. So it doesn't prove that Rhaego is dead. All the rest is Dany's own misconceptions, and beliefs that her son is dead, based on what Mirri and others said to her. Those people lied to Dany. What actually happened with her baby isn't known. Only implyed, in those two visions - from Dany's fever dream, and from the vision in THOU. And in both visions Rhaego was an adult. If he grew up, then he DIDN'T died, when he was a baby, he LIVED to adulthood.

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3 minutes ago, Megorova said:

No, it didn't.

"And he smiled for her and began to lift his hand toward hers, but when he opened his mouth the fire poured out. She saw his heart burning through his chest, and in an instant he was gone, consumed like a moth by a candle, turned to ash."

Fire pouring out of his mouth, could be not indication of something deadly, on the contrary, it could be indication, that he is a red priest, and that fire from his mouth is kiss of life.

Burning heart is Asshai's symbol of Azor Ahai or R'hllor, or something like that. Currently is used by Melisandre and Stannis, fake Azor Ahai.

The part - he was gone - doesn't mean that he died. He was taken by fire. Which could be metaphorical, not literal. Red priests serve to R'hllor for life, thus their lives were taken from them and their families, and they devoted those lives to serving to R'hllor.

Next part - consumed like a moth by a candle, turned to ash - He was consumed/taken by fire, doesn't equal to him dying. Moth is consumed by a candle. Moth by candle is turned to ash. That doesn't mean that Rhaego was consumed by a cadle and turned to ash. It's just that his disappearance, him being taken by fire (not dying, just devoting his life to R'hllor), was compared to how moth is getting consumed by a candle and turns to ash.

That text can be interpreted differently. So it doesn't prove that Rhaego is dead. All the rest is Dany's own misconceptions, and beliefs that her son is dead, based on what Mirri and others said to her. Those people lied to Dany. What actually happened with her baby isn't known. Only implyed, in those two visions - from Dany's fever dream, and from the vision in THOU. And in both visions Rhaego was an adult. If he grew up, then he DIDN'T died, when he was a baby, he LIVED to adulthood.

IMHO, that dream is clearly meant to demonstrate that Rhaego is dead.

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34 minutes ago, Megorova said:

No, it didn't.

"And he smiled for her and began to lift his hand toward hers, but when he opened his mouth the fire poured out. She saw his heart burning through his chest, and in an instant he was gone, consumed like a moth by a candle, turned to ash."

Fire pouring out of his mouth, could be not indication of something deadly, on the contrary, it could be indication, that he is a red priest, and that fire from his mouth is kiss of life.

Burning heart is Asshai's symbol of Azor Ahai or R'hllor, or something like that. Currently is used by Melisandre and Stannis, fake Azor Ahai.

The part - he was gone - doesn't mean that he died. He was taken by fire. Which could be metaphorical, not literal. Red priests serve to R'hllor for life, thus their lives were taken from them and their families, and they devoted those lives to serving to R'hllor.

Next part - consumed like a moth by a candle, turned to ash - He was consumed/taken by fire, doesn't equal to him dying. Moth is consumed by a candle. Moth by candle is turned to ash. That doesn't mean that Rhaego was consumed by a cadle and turned to ash. It's just that his disappearance, him being taken by fire (not dying, just devoting his life to R'hllor), was compared to how moth is getting consumed by a candle and turns to ash.

That text can be interpreted differently. So it doesn't prove that Rhaego is dead. All the rest is Dany's own misconceptions, and beliefs that her son is dead, based on what Mirri and others said to her. Those people lied to Dany. What actually happened with her baby isn't known. Only implyed, in those two visions - from Dany's fever dream, and from the vision in THOU. And in both visions Rhaego was an adult. If he grew up, then he DIDN'T died, when he was a baby, he LIVED to adulthood.

this is clutching at straws. Major clutching at straws. 

The fire is pouring out of his mouth. ie; life force leaving or could be interpreted as dragon fire/breath ie his Targaryen heritage. 

The heart burning through the chest is interesting as it aligns with one of the other twisted stillborn Targaryen babies. Visenya; Rhaenyra's daughter with Daemon. 

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Visenya had dragon-like birth defects. He described her as having been twisted and malformed, with a hole in her chest where her heart should have been and a stubby, scaled tail

The stillborn dragon babies all share similar features, twisted, tails, eyeless, scaled, hole in the chest. Could be that Rhaego's heart literally burnt out ? Could be simply symbolic that his heart has burnt out or given up, burnt out is a euphemism for stopped working after all, whilst she was in her delerius fevered labour. 

All of the language of that passage indicate death, words like consumed, moth to flame (the reason that is a saying about tragic attraction is that the moth can't help itself going to its doom, they end up dead.) burnt out, turned to Ash. it all speaks of death. 

Twice Dany definitively tells us she knows her son has died. Knows it in her bones type knows. The text indicates he is dead by grouping him in with her two dead brothers and finishing the grouping with the word Death. 

The thing I've noticed about your posts is that you never address the questions asked or issues raised you simply rework your argument into an ever weaker position.

There is no indicator that Rhaego lives. There is a lot that tells us he is dead.

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1 hour ago, Megorova said:

No, it didn't.

"And he smiled for her and began to lift his hand toward hers, but when he opened his mouth the fire poured out. She saw his heart burning through his chest, and in an instant he was gone, consumed like a moth by a candle, turned to ash."

GRRM once said that Daenerys and Cersei are parallels to each other in the way they rule. Cersei also has a "moth moment" and it is very telling. Rhaego is dead.

A Feast for Crows - Cersei I

Four spearmen in red cloaks and lion-crested helms were posted at the door of the Tower of the Hand. "No one is to enter or leave without my permission," she told them. The command came easily to her. My father had steel in his voice as well.
Within the tower, the smoke from the torches irritated her eyes, but Cersei did not weep, no more than her father would have. I am the only true son he ever had. Her heels scraped against the stone as she climbed, and she could still hear the moth fluttering wildly inside Ser Osmund's lantern. Die, the queen thought at it, in irritation, fly into the flame and be done with it.
Two more red-cloaked guardsmen stood atop the steps. Red Lester muttered a condolence as she passed. The queen's breath was coming fast and short, and she could feel her heart fluttering in her chest. The steps, she told herself, this cursed tower has too many steps. She had half a mind to tear it down.
 
1 hour ago, Megorova said:

Fire pouring out of his mouth, could be not indication of something deadly, on the contrary, it could be indication, that he is a red priest, and that fire from his mouth is kiss of life.

Burning heart is Asshai's symbol of Azor Ahai or R'hllor, or something like that. Currently is used by Melisandre and Stannis, fake Azor Ahai.

The part - he was gone - doesn't mean that he died. He was taken by fire. Which could be metaphorical, not literal. Red priests serve to R'hllor for life, thus their lives were taken from them and their families, and they devoted those lives to serving to R'hllor.


Daenerys, as the bride of fire, has given her son to the flames. She knew what the cost was that MMD was referring to (even though MMD was being tricksy as hell with her words), but Dany tried for a bit to convince herself otherwise, until the truth comes to her later that Dany "knew the price." Rhaego's life force is gone and the only thing Daenerys was able to bring back from the dead is the three stone dragons. I really don't think we are gong to get a Rhaego fly-by in the future books. That would be pointless to spend four, five, six, ??? books on everyone else if Rhaego was to be the surprise prince/saviour/whatever in the end (just as it would be pointless to spend four, five, six, ??? books on developing Jon to have him dead-dead ;)). Plus, it would put the elemental workings of the planet out of balance again.

 

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1 hour ago, The Fattest Leech said:

GRRM once said that Daenerys and Cersei are parallels to each other in the way they rule. Cersei also has a "moth moment" and it is very telling. Rhaego is dead.

A Feast for Crows - Cersei I

Four spearmen in red cloaks and lion-crested helms were posted at the door of the Tower of the Hand. "No one is to enter or leave without my permission," she told them. The command came easily to her. My father had steel in his voice as well.
Within the tower, the smoke from the torches irritated her eyes, but Cersei did not weep, no more than her father would have. I am the only true son he ever had. Her heels scraped against the stone as she climbed, and she could still hear the moth fluttering wildly inside Ser Osmund's lantern. Die, the queen thought at it, in irritation, fly into the flame and be done with it.
Two more red-cloaked guardsmen stood atop the steps. Red Lester muttered a condolence as she passed. The queen's breath was coming fast and short, and she could feel her heart fluttering in her chest. The steps, she told herself, this cursed tower has too many steps. She had half a mind to tear it down.
 


Daenerys, as the bride of fire, has given her son to the flames. She knew what the cost was that MMD was referring to (even though MMD was being tricksy as hell with her words), but Dany tried for a bit to convince herself otherwise, until the truth comes to her later that Dany "knew the price." Rhaego's life force is gone and the only thing Daenerys was able to bring back from the dead is the three stone dragons. I really don't think we are gong to get a Rhaego fly-by in the future books. That would be pointless to spend four, five, six, ??? books on everyone else if Rhaego was to be the surprise prince/saviour/whatever in the end (just as it would be pointless to spend four, five, six, ??? books on developing Jon to have him dead-dead ;)). Plus, it would put the elemental workings of the planet out of balance again.

 

I do believe Daenerys will die after she has brought forth the dragons, defeated Argon, and left a Targaryen heir, fulfilling her role as the protagonist in the second main conflict of ASOIAF. And I believe Jon Snow will be the protagonist in the third main conflict as he leads men against the Others. But I suppose it could be that the special snowflake's only real purpose was to introduce us to the wall and beyond, allow the wildings to cross, and perhaps lead to the destruction of the wall. 

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On 18/03/2018 at 5:28 PM, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

Next you make the point that Dany & Jon are both third children, but you think Rhaego a first child is the other rider? 

P.S I agree the third child thing is interesting and you know who else is a third child and possibly a Targaryen by blood Tyrion! 

I agree with your comment but your logic doesn’t really work here. Jon is Rhaegar’s third child, but Lyanna’s first/only. I don’t prescribe to A+J=T but Tyrion would be Aerys’s second child and Joanna’s third, making Daenerys Aerys’s fourth child and Rhaella’s third. All third born of one parent, but Jon would be thirdborn only through his father and Tyrion and Daenerys only through their mothers, which doesn’t really seem to fit with a poetic “third child” theme. Or maybe I’m being too subjective here.

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@Megorova you’re making so many false conclusions here, I’m surprised you can’t see it. Do you realise how contrived it is to chuck Rhaella into Daenerys’s ancestry “because she’s female”? And how on earth do you link the son of Drogo to the egg next to his head and not the egg between his legs? You’re not deriving your conclusions from the text, you’re misinterpreting the text to fit your own conclusions. I’m certainly not claiming to know who will ride which dragon etc., but your over-confidence in your own theory is certainly unearned.

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