Brandon the Barren?

[Varysblackfyre321]

1 hour ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Why though?

If she was pregnant she would have leverage to marry Brandon her, love. Lord Stark would be honor bound to marry his heir with the woman he dishonored, especially since she is the daughter of a powerful bassak.

As for Lord Rodrik, I doubt he'd pass over the chance to marry into house Stark, especially if it's the heir.

Depends on if Lord Rickard Stark wishes to recognize this pregnancy as being result of fornication between the heir and heiress no? He can just say no and save his first son's hand for a more worthy pick. Men sire bastards. Loads of lords sire bastards. It's too be expected. Brandon will not be shamed for going into some carnal pleasures with a woman nor face much pressure to marry her. At most Rickard would be expected give at least some aid in the care of the child. If anyone is too be shamed it will Barbary and her house. 

[Ygrain]

1 hour ago, Lord Lannister said:

Actually one of Brandon's bastards really would've made better cover for Jon. And ensure some domestic bliss.

That would require 1) Ned badmouthing his brother and his wife's ex-betrothed, and 2) Jon looking the part, which, given that Brandon died pre-Rebellion, probably wouldn't look very convincing

20 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

I believe it was Ned though, or why do we have all these stories/rumors on N&A

As a red herring. Since when is true in GRRMth, the first thing we hear?

Seriously: too many things don't fit.

- there is not a single occurence in Ned's PoVs that could be interpreted as a reference to Ashara, which is rather weird; given that she had his child and died, it definitely should haunt him just like Lyanna's death.

- it would be highly out of character for Ned (who never was the boy he was and thinks in his very first PoV that he is not the type to seek carnal pleasures) to have premarital sex with a highborn lady, and should he slip, not amend it immediately the following morning by marrying her (like Robb did with Jeyne). Even if Ashara refused at first and then found out she was pregnant, there was still a time window between HH and the outbreak of the rebellion during which things could be arranged.

- Barristan, who would have every reason to be bitter towards the man who dishonoured Ashara and indirectly caused her suicide, shows Ned only respect and even defends him before Dany

- Barristan's musings about young girls always choosing fire over mud: Ned was the plain good boy, the very definition of mud; Brandon was the fire one, never shy about what he wanted, and we learn that he had an affair with a highborn maiden, Barbrey Ryswell

20 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

and the respect and fondness Daynes have for him, going so far as naming(nicknaming) their heir after him?

Which is yet another inconsistence, if you think about it: why should they show respect to someone who ruined their beautiful daughter (and killed their famous son)? To me, that's more of a sign that Ned wasn't the culprit, and the death of Arthur was somewhat balanced by returning their ancestral blade - it was war and he acted honorably in this, so I imagine the Daynes might be forgiving in this respect. It could also be speculated that Ned might have been willing to step in and marry Ashara to cover her dishonour, which would definitely win him a huge one with the Daynes.

As for young Edric's nickname: Ned is a nickname for any Ed- starting name, it wasn't invented with Ned Stark. Its use with the Dayne heir might indicate that they hold no beef with The Ned but I don't think it is correct to assume that they used the nickname because of Ned Stark.

 

[Endymion I Targaryen]

There are probably Brandon's illegitimate children around the North who may ignore their true parentage.

Considering Barbrey, the fact that she didn't have children with both Brandon and her husband imply she was infertile or had difficulty in conceiving.

She could also have become pregnant by Brandon and aborted the child upon learning his betrothal to Catelyn. Her father intended to betroth her to Ned so a bastard child with Brandon would prevent this from happening.

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

14 hours ago, Vaedys Targaryen said:

I don't think moontea is as widespread as some people tend to think; sure there are a few Maesters who know how to brew it and we know there are woodswitches who also know, but there's no way that moontea is as widespread as some people think. Maesters are only in castles and the commoners don't have access to them and I can't really bring myself to believe that there are just woodswitches all over the place who're willing to give just about anyone moontea for free. Not to mention also the ingredients; we don't really know what they are, other than tansy, mint and woodworm, but they seem to be regional, which means that not everyone has access to it. Arianne is a Princess of Dorne, so she could have access to the ingredients, but most women (and prostitutes) around Westeros don't seem to have easy access to either a woodswitch or the ingredients to moontea.

 

Maybe she did take moontea and she's just like Lysa who has a difficult time conceiving and/or her children would be sickly and die very soon after birth?

I disagree about Moontea's availability. 

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"If Ygritte does not want a child, she will go to some woods witch and drink a cup o' moon tea. You do not come into it, once the seed is planted."

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I would have given you a son too, but they murdered him with moon tea, with tansy and mint and wormwood, a spoon of honey and a drop of pennyroyal. It wasn't me, I never knew, I only drank what Father gave me

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Afterward, Asha had the sense to find a woods witch, who showed her how to brew moon tea to keep her belly flat.

 

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not to wed or father children. Well, I have drunk my moon tea, and you know I cannot marry you." She smiled. "Though I might be persuaded to keep you for my paramour."

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 "The riverlands are full of maids you've pleased, all drinking tansy tea. You'd think a man as old as you would know to spill his seed on their bellies. Men will be calling you Tom Sevensons before much longer."

Quote

 

From the Wall to Dorne; high born and low these quotes show women accessing Moon tea without a Maester in sight. The only reference to the tea which involves a Maester is the case or Margaery Tyrell. The ingredients are listed and they are all common enough plants and a bit of honey which is available to anyone brave enough to crack open a hive or with access to a market where I'm sure it can be purchased. Given it is a common ingredient in the many wonderful foodstuffs we read about in ASOIAF besides which that one isn't an active ingredient it is just there to make the tisane go down more easily. 

There really are woods witches all over the place; believe me I've written a rather lengthy blog post dedicated to them. And the plants involved are all common hedgerow plants. If Wildlings north of the wall can brew it and Arrianne in Dorne can brew it it is safe to say the ingredients are commonly available to all.    

[Corvo the Crow]

4 hours ago, Ygrain said:

Since when is true in GRRMth, the first thing we hear?

True, but it's not always the case, is it?

 

4 hours ago, Ygrain said:

Seriously: too many things don't fit.

- there is not a single occurence in Ned's PoVs that could be interpreted as a reference to Ashara, which is rather weird; given that she had his child and died, it definitely should haunt him just like Lyanna's death.

- it would be highly out of character for Ned (who never was the boy he was and thinks in his very first PoV that he is not the type to seek carnal pleasures) to have premarital sex with a highborn lady, and should he slip, not amend it immediately the following morning by marrying her (like Robb did with Jeyne). Even if Ashara refused at first and then found out she was pregnant, there was still a time window between HH and the outbreak of the rebellion during which things could be arranged.

- Barristan, who would have every reason to be bitter towards the man who dishonoured Ashara and indirectly caused her suicide, shows Ned only respect and even defends him before Dany

- Barristan's musings about young girls always choosing fire over mud: Ned was the plain good boy, the very definition of mud; Brandon was the fire one, never shy about what he wanted, and we learn that he had an affair with a highborn maiden, Barbrey Ryswell

1. Same applies if Allyria is Brandon's daughter; Beric is betrothed to her but never once does Ned remark on any child Brandon may have from Ashara... so Ned may not know it.

2. How much time between the war and HH though? Brandon was still around HH(Riverrun) and so was Lyanna. At least the abduction must have happened shortly after. Perhaps Ned intended to bring this to his lord father and Ashara to hers. He may have slipped, like you said, but he wouldn't slip again by marrying without the consent of both of their fathers.In the eyes of 7K people, Robb acts the opposite of Ned, solely because he thinks of his brother Jon, whose mother Ned didn't marry.

3. Is Barristan bitter towards the Mad King? Or any other character? I think Barristan is one of the most neutral characters we have. When he talks about people he lists the good sides and the bad, whenever possible. He doesn't let his personal feelings get in the way of his judgement of people. Besides wasn't it Ned, along with Bob who spared his life when Roose counseled them to kill him?

4.While true, not always the case. LF is as mud as you can get, yet Lysa wanted him and showed no interest in fiery Jaime. We see through Jon's eyes how Myrcella looks at Robb. While Robb may not be as muddy as his father The Ned, He's no fire either. Same goes for Jon, who is pretty much Ned v2.0 in most aspects yet he gets some attention from the ladies around him.

4 hours ago, Ygrain said:

Which is yet another inconsistence, if you think about it: why should they show respect to someone who ruined their beautiful daughter (and killed their famous son)? To me, that's more of a sign that Ned wasn't the culprit, and the death of Arthur was somewhat balanced by returning their ancestral blade - it was war and he acted honorably in this, so I imagine the Daynes might be forgiving in this respect. It could also be speculated that Ned might have been willing to step in and marry Ashara to cover her dishonour, which would definitely win him a huge one with the Daynes.

 

They are Dornish so it's not ruining her in their eyes. Though Ashara may have been heart broken indeed that he married with Cat so Ned's story may have some truth to it. Though it would be a stretch, remember how Barristan thinks Elia is like a kitchen drab compared tp Ashara? Catelyn may be the wet nurse in Dayne Story.

Ned killed Arthur in battle which is fair, so no reason to despise him for killing Arthur. As for returning the Ancestral sword, I think that is only to be expected, with all these wars going on, no house would have kept their ancestral swords if anyone who killed someone with an ancestral sword hold on to it. So returning the swords is the norm, not some overchivalrious gesture, keeping the sword is the dishonorable thing.

5 hours ago, Ygrain said:

As for young Edric's nickname: Ned is a nickname for any Ed- starting name, it wasn't invented with Ned Stark. Its use with the Dayne heir might indicate that they hold no beef with The Ned but I don't think it is correct to assume that they used the nickname because of Ned Stark.

Eddison Toilet is called Edd so is Eddard Karstark, so no, not all Ed-s are Neds and not even all the Edwards.

It's not just his nickname either:

Eddard is Eadweard: Ead + Weard ; wealth/fortune + guard

Rickard is Richard: Ric + Hard ; power/rule + brave/hardy

Edric is Eadric; Ead+Ric, first parts of both Ned's and his father's name. That is how much Dayne value Eddard Stark, unless it is some coincidence which I think not since Allyria also sounds similar to Eddard's mother Lyarra. Though last point is disputable since Lyarra is also mother to Brandon and I couldn't find anything on the origins of these two names.

 

[Ygrain]

11 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

1. Same applies if Allyria is Brandon's daughter; Beric is betrothed to her but never once does Ned remark on any child Brandon may have from Ashara... so Ned may not know it.

1) And how would Ned know who Beric was betrothed to? Why should he? We only find out long after Ned's death.

2) If Ashara's baby was officially stillborn, then Allyria's name means nothing to Ned.

11 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

2. How much time between the war and HH though? Brandon was still around HH(Riverrun) and so was Lyanna. At least the abduction must have happened shortly after. Perhaps Ned intended to bring this to his lord father and Ashara to hers. He may have slipped, like you said, but he wouldn't slip again by marrying without the consent of both of their fathers.In the eyes of 7K people, Robb acts the opposite of Ned, solely because he thinks of his brother Jon, whose mother Ned didn't marry.

The bolded is an assumption with no textual support. Brandon went to Riverrun to take up LF's challenge for Cat's hand, there is no reference where he went from or when, for all we know, he may have gone from Winterfell. There is no explanation what Lyanna was doing around HH, either; if she had been staying with the Whents, as has been speculated, she may have been there for quite some time. Or she may have left Rickard's wedding party on the way to Riverrun. There is absolutely no prerequisite that this happened soon after HH. In an earlier SSM, GRRM places about a year between HH and her abduction. In the World Book, he has winter return after a couple of weeks and Rhaegar leaving DS soon after Aegon's birth, setting out on a journey that eventually brought him back to the Riverlands, which doesn't really say how long it took him, only that he didn't go straight on.

11 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

3. Is Barristan bitter towards the Mad King? Or any other character? I think Barristan is one of the most neutral characters we have. When he talks about people he lists the good sides and the bad, whenever possible. He doesn't let his personal feelings get in the way of his judgement of people. Besides wasn't it Ned, along with Bob who spared his life when Roose counseled them to kill him?

You mean, Barristan who no longer considers his rescue of Aerys the golden point of his career? Who thinks that his duty became difficult and struggles with what to tell Aerys' daughter about her father? Who decides to watch Dany first and not reveal himself right away, in case she turns out to be her father's daughter? He may not be vocal about his feelings but he sure as hell does show what he thinks about people with his actions.

11 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

4.While true, not always the case. LF is as mud as you can get, yet Lysa wanted him and showed no interest in fiery Jaime. We see through Jon's eyes how Myrcella looks at Robb. While Robb may not be as muddy as his father The Ned, He's no fire either. Same goes for Jon, who is pretty much Ned v2.0 in most aspects yet he gets some attention from the ladies around him.

And when did Lysa ever get to meet Jaime (not to mention that the young Jaime seemed a pretty decent, idealistic guy, not the jaded kingslayer he became later). Also, I have to disagree that LF is mud - he may not have the imposing physique but he has the quick wit and is a manipulative bastard. In other words, LF is a bad boy, and Lysa's love for him consumed her.

11 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

They are Dornish so it's not ruining her in their eyes.

This is an incorrect assumption. GRRM has stated that Arianne's sexual exploits are not the rule among highborn Dornish maidens and that they are not supposed to be sleeping around (and brithing illegitimate children).

Plus, it is Barristan's point of view, not Ashara's, that calls her dishonored.

 

11 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Though Ashara may have been heart broken indeed that he married with Cat so Ned's story may have some truth to it. Though it would be a stretch, remember how Barristan thinks Elia is like a kitchen drab compared tp Ashara? Catelyn may be the wet nurse in Dayne Story.

Sorry, don't see what you mean here.

11 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Ned killed Arthur in battle which is fair, so no reason to despise him for killing Arthur.

I didn't say despise, but I'd expect them to dislike him.

11 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

As for returning the Ancestral sword, I think that is only to be expected, with all these wars going on, no house would have kept their ancestral swords if anyone who killed someone with an ancestral sword hold on to it. So returning the swords is the norm, not some overchivalrious gesture, keeping the sword is the dishonorable thing.

You mean, like the Lannisters returned Ice? - Except, they didn't. If you have information about other ancestral blades returned, please, share it. Otherwise, it's an unbased assumption again. For all we know, blades can be ransomed, just like knights ransom their armour if they lose in a tourney.

11 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Eddison Toilet is called Edd so is Eddard Karstark, so no, not all Ed-s are Neds and not even all the Edwards.

And what does this have to do with anything? And Ed-name can be nicknamed as Ned but doesn't have to. We have both Eds and Neds in-story.

11 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

It's not just his nickname either:

Eddard is Eadweard: Ead + Weard ; wealth/fortune + guard

Rickard is Richard: Ric + Hard ; power/rule + brave/hardy

Edric is Eadric; Ead+Ric, first parts of both Ned's and his father's name. That is how much Dayne value Eddard Stark, unless it is some coincidence which I think not since Allyria also sounds similar to Eddard's mother Lyarra. Though last point is disputable since Lyarra is also mother to Brandon and I couldn't find anything on the origins of these two names.

Well, while you're into etymology, then you can see that common name elements are often combined and recombined, and there is nothing weird about combining wealth + power.

You have an Edric in the Stark genealogy and you have Robert's bastard, whose name was hardly a reference to anything, given that children are named by their mothers and Delenna Florent had no reason to name him after the Starks. Meaning, Edric is a pre-existing name and its creation had nothing to do with Ned Stark.

[Unacosamedarisa]

6 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

If she was pregnant she would have leverage to marry Brandon her, love. Lord Stark would be honor bound to marry his heir with the woman he dishonored, especially since she is the daughter of a powerful bassak.

Would it? We don't know... It might have just pissed them off. Brandon and his father might just have denied the child was his, and then shunned the Ryswells. Brandon was called the "Wild Wolf" after all, not the "Honourable and concerned with how he's seen by others Wolf". Also, if Rickard had Southron ambitions, I doubt he'd have let a bastard get in the way of those ambitions. Barbrey and Lord Ryswell could have pushed for Brandon to marry Barbrey after he got her pregnant, and instead of getting a marriage between the two, they could have ended up with their animosity and opprobrium. 

But, none of that matters... Because Barbrey never got pregnant. It didn't happen, which is not odd. Recall what Cat says to Robb about his heir...

Quote

"It does not always happen the first time." Though it did with you. "Nor even the hundredth. You are very young."

Brandon's lack of bastards isn't odd, doesn't tell us that he was infertile, or anything like that. Brandon having bastard children just isn't part of the story. 

[Lord Lannister]

15 hours ago, Ygrain said:

That would require 1) Ned badmouthing his brother and his wife's ex-betrothed, and 2) Jon looking the part, which, given that Brandon died pre-Rebellion, probably wouldn't look very convincing

I'm uncertain how Jon wouldn't look the part. Everyone says he "has more of the North" in him than his half siblings. If conception is an issue, Lord Rickard and Brandon's execution was the final catalyst that touched off Robert's Rebellion. Brandon went to King's Landing to threaten Rhaegar in response to Lyanna's "kidnapping" and it's reasonable to assume she got pregnant in that time frame given she gave birth at the Tower of Joy afterward. So the fictional Brandon birth could easily coincide with a "last fling" before his self inflicted suicide mission.

The first issue you raise is probably the most valid, but Ned could conceivably talk himself into it by the rationale that Brandon did sleep around and so he wouldn't be dishonoring him directly, and that his promise to Lyanna to protect him would be best achieved by diverting suspicion away from Jon. No one would suspect that bastard of Brandon Stark was truly the son of Rhaegar Targaryen, especially given how he died. Let's face it, Ned having an affair raises eyebrows and makes people wonder why, especially when he stonewalled all inquiries into it. 

 

[867-5309]

On 3/16/2018 at 8:24 PM, Kandrax said:

Perhaps Brandon spiled seed on her belly.

Do you know what they call couples who practice early withdrawal as a form of birth control?  PARENTS

On 3/16/2018 at 0:17 PM, Corvo the Crow said:

We know that Brandon had a long affair with Barbrey and people assume Brandon was a womanizer based on just this affair but if he was a womanizer why are there no Brandonlings around?

Even more importantly, how come Barbrey never got pregnant(assuming she isn't infertile)? 

Was he infertile?

Barbrey has a defect in her plumbing.  Brandon's is fine.  One of the most popular theories is Brandon + Lyanna = Jon.  So we know Brandon has at least one kid.  And because parentage is hard to prove, it's not impossible for a few Brandon bastards living around winter town.  The long face is a Stark signature but we know it doesn't manifest itself on every person in the family.  We will never know how many of those older teens in the north are his.

[kissdbyfire]

18 minutes ago, 867-5309 said:

One of the most popular theories is Brandon + Lyanna = Jon. 

Popular where? 

[zandru]

54 minutes ago, 867-5309 said:

One of the most popular theories is Brandon + Lyanna = Jon. 

Just because a guy can't keep it in his breeches doesn't mean he's into incest, too. Plus, incest is a major sin/crime in Westeros - although they do allow closer pairings than we do. Marrying cousins is no big deal, for example, whereas it's forbidden in the US. But brother-sister? No way. That's why what Cersei and Jaime do for fun is so shocking.

Plus, Brandon doing it with his sister? His little sister, who was younger than Ned? You're making Brandon not just incestuous, but pedophillic. There are no allegations of this in the text. No basis, then for your B + L = J.

[Ygrain]

8 hours ago, Lord Lannister said:

I'm uncertain how Jon wouldn't look the part. Everyone says he "has more of the North" in him than his half siblings.

I meant age-wise. He would be too old to have been conceived post-marriage as Cat believes.

 

8 hours ago, Lord Lannister said:

and it's reasonable to assume she got pregnant in that time frame given she gave birth at the Tower of Joy afterward.

Given that Jon's birth is placed 8-9 months before Dany's, Lyanna got pregnant well after that time frame.

 

8 hours ago, Lord Lannister said:

The first issue you raise is probably the most valid, but Ned could conceivably talk himself into it by the rationale that Brandon did sleep around and so he wouldn't be dishonoring him directly, and that his promise to Lyanna to protect him would be best achieved by diverting suspicion away from Jon. No one would suspect that bastard of Brandon Stark was truly the son of Rhaegar Targaryen, especially given how he died. Let's face it, Ned having an affair raises eyebrows and makes people wonder why, especially when he stonewalled all inquiries into it. 

I don't see Ned rationalizing anything dishonorable. 

Passing Jon off as Brandon's would raise other problems, though - it would far more questionable why he chose to keep the boy under his roof, or where and how did he learn about him and why he trusted some woman's claim that the baby was Brandon's... perhaps even suspicion that Jon is actually his? I don't think it would be as clear-cut as it seems.

5 hours ago, 867-5309 said:

One of the most popular theories is Brandon + Lyanna = Jon.  So we know Brandon has at least one kid. 

This leap of logic is rather stunning.

Not to mention that B+L=J is nowhere next to most popular.

[Lord Varys]

Guys, Brandon might have fathered a literal army of little Snows. But you know what? Considering the way this society is set up he was never under any obligation to acknowledge so much as a single child as his seed. It is entirely up to him to do this, especially if he fucked a lot of commoners.

King Robert only acknowledged one of his bastards, Edric Storm, and that only because his brother and sister-in-law - as well as most of the people attending Stannis' wedding - stumbled in on him and Delena Florent when he was fucking her in Stannis and Selyse's wedding bed.

That was difficult to ignore. But in any other case - even if you deflower or fuck a noblewoman - the fact that said woman slept with you outside of wedlock means she could have slept with any other man, too, freeing you from the responsibility of playing the father for a child which may not be yours, anyway.

Theon and even Robb may have fathered children on the common wenches they slept with. Brandon might have, too, especially while he was traveling the North, choosing a different woman to warm his bed each night.

Even Tyrion might also have produced a literal army of little Hills without ever realizing it - because all the whores in the Westerlands learned that they better not approach Lord Tywin in such matters after the Tysha affair.

Not every woman has the audacity of Ramsay's mother to actually confront the nobleman about the child he fathered - and Roose only acknowledged Ramsay as his son because the little brat had his eyes and looks. Not to mention the 'controversial way' in which Ramsay was fathered in the first place. If a child looks nothing like his alleged father it should be easy for him to dismiss the claim that it is his son, even if the mother was his lover or paramour for months or even years.

Brandon is not described as the kind of guy you want to trouble with things he doesn't want to hear - and neither is Lord Rickard, for that matter. The idea that Brandon would have been obliged to actually listen to anything 'a whore' (and any woman seduced by him could have been a whore in his eyes) was telling him isn't very likely.

[300 H&H Magnum]

12 hours ago, 867-5309 said:

Do you know what they call couples who practice early withdrawal as a form of birth control?  PARENTS

Barbrey has a defect in her plumbing.  Brandon's is fine.  One of the most popular theories is Brandon + Lyanna = Jon.  So we know Brandon has at least one kid.  And because parentage is hard to prove, it's not impossible for a few Brandon bastards living around winter town.  The long face is a Stark signature but we know it doesn't manifest itself on every person in the family.  We will never know how many of those older teens in the north are his.

 

6 hours ago, Ygrain said:

I meant age-wise. He would be too old to have been conceived post-marriage as Cat believes.

 

Given that Jon's birth is placed 8-9 months before Dany's, Lyanna got pregnant well after that time frame.

 

I don't see Ned rationalizing anything dishonorable. 

Passing Jon off as Brandon's would raise other problems, though - it would far more questionable why he chose to keep the boy under his roof, or where and how did he learn about him and why he trusted some woman's claim that the baby was Brandon's... perhaps even suspicion that Jon is actually his? I don't think it would be as clear-cut as it seems.

This leap of logic is rather stunning.

Not to mention that B+L=J is nowhere next to most popular.

Brandon Stark + Lyanna Stark = Jon is actually quite popular.  It comes up here on the forum very often.  I'm a Ned + Ashara = Jon supporter at this time, but Brandon Stark + Lyanna Stark = Jon is plausible.  As is Mance + Lyanna = Jon.  

[kissdbyfire]

33 minutes ago, 300 H&H Magnum said:

Brandon Stark + Lyanna Stark = Jon is actually quite popular.  It comes up here on the forum very often.  I'm a Ned + Ashara = Jon supporter at this time, but Brandon Stark + Lyanna Stark = Jon is plausible.  As is Mance + Lyanna = Jon.  

Just because a theory 'pops up' doesn't mean it's popular. Brandon and Lyanna is not at all popular, unless if by "popular"  you mean it has the support of very few people who like outlandish ideas that have zero text based evidence to them. And I'm not even going into the fact that B+L is impossible. And all of that is true for the other "popular theories" you bring up. The only one which has some supporters and could be considered mildly popular-ish is N+A, but then it has its own [different] issues. 

[SirArthur]

I find it really bizar how Ned is neglected as a father because that is the first thing we hear while at the same time other things we hear first are accepted by the same people because it fits in their argument. 

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

1 hour ago, 300 H&H Magnum said:

 

Brandon Stark + Lyanna Stark = Jon is actually quite popular.  It comes up here on the forum very often.  I'm a Ned + Ashara = Jon supporter at this time, but Brandon Stark + Lyanna Stark = Jon is plausible.  As is Mance + Lyanna = Jon.  

non of these are possible let alone plausible. 

Brandon was dead before Jon was conceived, by several months in fact. We know when Jon was conceived; he was born 8-9 months prior to Dany we know her conception date happened the night before Rhaella left KL and the sack happened. She was therefore born approx 40 weeks later. Placing Jon's birth at the time of the sack. Count back 40 weeks roughly (a pregnancy last between 38 & 43 weeks with 40 being the average.)to arive at his conception and it happened about three months into the war. LONG after Brandon died.As a second way to determine Jon's conception date we can measure it alongside Robb's because Robb & Jon are so close in age that Cat doubts who is the elder. Cat tells us she conceived Robb on her wedding night. Which happened shortly after the battle of the bells. Which happened LONG after Brandons death. If you look at the timeline of the war BOTH these methods for ascertaining the date of Jon's conception give us the period of time around the battle of the bells. Proving Brandon can not be his father.

If we then take that now known conception date and apply it to the other options you gave we can assess if Ashara can feasibly be his mother. So do you think Ashara had a way to know where Ned would be in order to travel to him for sex? Taking into account the fact he was on campaign in a war zone moving about and without modern day communication and location devices. She can't send him a raven to say she's on her way so stay where you are, she has no way of knowing where that might be from one day to the next. He can't send her one to say Hey I'm at this village in the Riverlands, come find me. Because by the time she gets there his troupe will have moved on. Plus we do know his location for at least half of the possible conception window our known time allows. He was in Riverrun marrying Cat and he stayed with her for a fortnight. So in order for Jon to be born within 4 weeks of Robb (i'm being generous here babies are very easy to guess their age in the first several months.) he had to be conceived in the two weeks prior to him being in Riverrun. IE whilst he was fighting the battle of the bells. So yeah, how exactly did they manage that? 

 

And lastly Mance, WTF!!! this one is absurd. 

[The Weirwoods Eyes]

24 minutes ago, SirArthur said:

I find it really bizar how Ned is neglected as a father because that is the first thing we hear while at the same time other things we hear first are accepted by the same people because it fits in their argument. 

The reason why Ned is dismissed as a possible father for Jon has nothing to do with it being the first thing we hear, it is because in order to father Jon Ned would have needed to have sex with someone in the two weeks prior to marrying Cat, or whilst he was at Riverrun celebrating their marriage. If it were the first then he has no reason at all to upset Cat by insinuating he cheated on her. And the latter is hugely problematic as it means the mother must be a woman who was in service at Riverrun. 

[John Suburbs]

On ‎3‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 0:17 PM, Corvo the Crow said:

We know that Brandon had a long affair with Barbrey and people assume Brandon was a womanizer based on just this affair but if he was a womanizer why are there no Brandonlings around?

Even more importantly, how come Barbrey never got pregnant(assuming she isn't infertile)? 

Was he infertile?

You can ask the same about Tyrion.

But I do suspect we have heard of at least one bastard child of Brandon Stark; he went by the name of Domeric Bolton.

[zandru]

Pls ignore