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Allardyce

Is the dusky woman a dragonseed?

38 posts in this topic

I don't mean that her ancestor is Nettles or she is an Aerys bastard, but just that she has Targaryen blood.  With all that considered, the plan is for this woman to blow the horn. 

But there is a twist that Euron and the Dusky woman had not planned on:  Dany's dragons came from Asshai.  I.E., they are not sourced from eggs laid by Targaryen dragons.  Their reaction to the horn will be unpredictable.

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40 minutes ago, Allardyce said:

I don't mean that her ancestor is Nettles or she is an Aerys bastard, but just that she has Targaryen blood.  With all that considered, the plan is for this woman to blow the horn. 

There is no indication that she is dragonseed 

40 minutes ago, Allardyce said:

But there is a twist that Euron and the Dusky woman had not planned on:  Dany's dragons came from Asshai.  I.E., they are not sourced from eggs laid by Targaryen dragons.  Their reaction to the horn will be unpredictable.

Dragon eggs are dragon eggs. It won't make a difference unless GRRM specifically says so 

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She's probably a bastard of King Aerys that Euron found. 

3 hours ago, Allardyce said:

I don't mean that her ancestor is Nettles or she is an Aerys bastard, but just that she has Targaryen blood.  With all that considered, the plan is for this woman to blow the horn. 

But there is a twist that Euron and the Dusky woman had not planned on:  Dany's dragons came from Asshai.  I.E., they are not sourced from eggs laid by Targaryen dragons.  Their reaction to the horn will be unpredictable.

Dany's dragons are not even from an old Valyrian line.  They've never been genetically altered.  They are what dragons were before the Valyrians subjected them to their controlled breeding program.  Dany brought them to life.  She's their mother. 

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Is the dusky woman a dragonseed?  It is certainly possible.  One has to ask, why a dragonseed would continue to serve Euron after he cut her tongue.  The real battle is between the Dusky Woman and the Red Priest.  Vic is a dead man walking.  Seems to me, the dusky woman  sensed her enemy when she saw Mo.  

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The Dusky Woman's reactions to Moqorro indicate an abhorrence to the Red Priest.  This is a curious reaction for a Valyrian in light of the Red Priests in Essos clamoring to Dany's fame, declaring her Azor Ahai.  The only other people I found describes as having "dusky skin" are the people on Naath and Missandei, who is of course, from Naath.   The Naathi are gentle people, vegetarians and pacifists.  Would a Naathi react in the manner of the Dusky Woman to the arrival of a fire warrior?    

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Posted (edited)

Firstly, Dany's dragons are almost certainly from Targaryen eggs and not from Asshaii.

As for the Dusky Woman, she is the Faceless Man who killed Balon. As the Kindly Old Man told Arya:

"Stay, and the Many-Faced God will take your ears, your nose, your tongue. He will take your sad grey eyes that have seen so much. He will take your hands, your feet, your arms and legs, your private parts. He will take your hopes and dreams, your loves and hates. Those who enter His service must give up all that makes them who they are. Can you do that?"
 
Having her tongue cut out is par for the course for a dedicated Faceless Woman. So, whatever Euron paid the Faceless Men, it was of sufficient magnitude to get them to make a major commitment to his cause. Maybe it even ties into their own hidden agenda.
 
Anyway, it was her Faceless Man magic that reacted to Moqorro's Fire magic when the two laid eyes on each other. Maybe he could see through her glamour. But, since he is not really serving Victarrion, he kept it to himself.
Edited by Free Northman Reborn

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8 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Firstly, Dany's dragons are almost certainly from Targaryen eggs and not from Asshaii.

As for the Dusky Woman, she is the Faceless Man who killed Balon. As the Kindly Old Man told Arya:

He is trying to scare me away, Arya thought, the way he did with the worm. "I don't care about that."
"You should. Stay, and the Many-Faced God will take your ears, your nose, your tongue. He will take your sad grey eyes that have seen so much. He will take your hands, your feet, your arms and legs, your private parts. He will take your hopes and dreams, your loves and hates. Those who enter His service must give up all that makes them who they are. Can you do that?"
 
Having her tongue cut out is par for the course for a dedicatad Faceless Woman. So, whatever Euron paid the Faceless Men, it as of sufficient magnitude to get them to make a major commitment to his cause. Maybe it even ties into their own hidden agenda.
 
Anyway, it was her Faceless Man magic that clashed with Moqorro's Fire magic when the two laid eyes on each other. Maybe he could see through her glamour. But, since he is not really serving Victarrion, he kept it to himself.

Wait... You and @Lord Varys actually agree on something??

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Posted (edited)

2 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Wait... You and @Lord Varys actually agree on something??

Haha. The first time I ever read a post of Lord Varys', it was on a topic we completely agree on. Which is that Tyrion is Aerys's bastard. As you know, first impressions tend to last, and to this day I sub-consciously view Lord Varys as someone who is a like minded individual who just happens to disagree with me on some topics.:D.

The truth is probably the opposite. Which is that we just happened to agree on Tyrion's identity, and disagree on most other things. But, that first impressions thing is powerful indeed.

Edited by Free Northman Reborn

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Those eggs were likely Targ eggs. Given that Illyrio is likely  Blackfyre descendant and so could have a few eggs which came to essos with the Blackfyres. There is even a chance Viserion's egg was actually Eleana Targaryens egg, which was described as silver streaked with gold. Viserion came from a pale cream egg with golden streaks and the use of the word silver for Elaena's egg is ambiguous given that it was described as the same as her hair, she had the Targaryen silver hair with a gold streak. The Targaryen silver hair is really white, I mean they don't really have silver hair It's a romanticism for platinum blonde. 

Drogon and Rhaegals eggs could be any of the unsubscribed ones we hear of, and it is known Blackfyres attempted to steal eggs on at least one occasion, never mind also that they could have legitimately had a few of their own given how fond Aegon IV was of his bastard son.

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44 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Firstly, Dany's dragons are almost certainly from Targaryen eggs and not from Asshaii.

As for the Dusky Woman, she is the Faceless Man who killed Balon. As the Kindly Old Man told Arya:

"Stay, and the Many-Faced God will take your ears, your nose, your tongue. He will take your sad grey eyes that have seen so much. He will take your hands, your feet, your arms and legs, your private parts. He will take your hopes and dreams, your loves and hates. Those who enter His service must give up all that makes them who they are. Can you do that?"
 
Having her tongue cut out is par for the course for a dedicated Faceless Woman. So, whatever Euron paid the Faceless Men, it was of sufficient magnitude to get them to make a major commitment to his cause. Maybe it even ties into their own hidden agenda.
 
Anyway, it was her Faceless Man magic that reacted to Moqorro's Fire magic when the two laid eyes on each other. Maybe he could see through her glamour. But, since he is not really serving Victarrion, he kept it to himself.

Dany's dragon eggs are from Asshai.  There is no reason for Magister Illyrio to lie about it.  It is the truth unless you can provide evidence that the Magister is lying.  

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3 hours ago, The Weirwoods Eyes said:

Those eggs were likely Targ eggs. Given that Illyrio is likely  Blackfyre descendant and so could have a few eggs which came to essos with the Blackfyres. There is even a chance Viserion's egg was actually Eleana Targaryens egg, which was described as silver streaked with gold. Viserion came from a pale cream egg with golden streaks and the use of the word silver for Elaena's egg is ambiguous given that it was described as the same as her hair, she had the Targaryen silver hair with a gold streak. The Targaryen silver hair is really white, I mean they don't really have silver hair It's a romanticism for platinum blonde. 

Drogon and Rhaegals eggs could be any of the unsubscribed ones we hear of, and it is known Blackfyres attempted to steal eggs on at least one occasion, never mind also that they could have legitimately had a few of their own given how fond Aegon IV was of his bastard son.

Quote

Dragon's eggs, from the Shadow Lands beyond Asshai." said Magister Illyrio.  "The eons have turned them to stone, yet still they burn bright with beauty."

In my opinion, those eggs predate Old Valyria.  This fits the theme of rebirth.  

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5 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

As for the Dusky Woman, she is the Faceless Man who killed Balon. As the Kindly Old Man told Arya:

"Stay, and the Many-Faced God will take your ears, your nose, your tongue. He will take your sad grey eyes that have seen so much. He will take your hands, your feet, your arms and legs, your private parts. He will take your hopes and dreams, your loves and hates. Those who enter His service must give up all that makes them who they are. Can you do that?"
 
Having her tongue cut out is par for the course for a dedicated Faceless Woman.

Now, I'm not suggesting that the Dusky Woman is not of the FM, it's a possibility, I grant, but the quote from the kindly man does not suggest FMs have their tongues cut out. I seem to recall 'Jaqen H'ghar' talking quite a lot, and all the other FMs are quite capable of saying 'I know this man'.

All the kindly man is saying is that every part of you must serve the MFG. If you wish to connect Him 'taking' the tongue to the Dusky Woman being an FM, then you'd also have to accept he takes the other parts too. An assassin who lacks ears, nose, tongue, sad grey eyes, hands, feet, arms, legs, and private parts is really on an uphill struggle for even a single hit. So on the evidence that the Dusky Woman still has arms, hands, legs and private parts at the very least we can assume she is NOT the FM who killed Balon.

Unless your post is just a wind-up, of course....

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An assassin who can't talk is handicapped.  On the other hand, she doesn't need to speak for this particular job.  She just needs to stick a knife in Victarion after the horn is blown and she claims one dragon by blood.  I think Moquorro will beat her to it.  

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4 hours ago, Aline de Gavrillac said:

In my opinion, those eggs predate Old Valyria.  This fits the theme of rebirth.  

Ten thousand years.  That's the amount of time it takes to petrify.  There are other factors that can shorten or lengthen the time.  The time is not written in "stone".  It's not conclusive but there is no reason to think the magister was lying.  

The Targaryen dragons got weaker and their fertility went down.  The eggs stopped hatching.  Why would these eggs hatch healthy dragons if they came from the same source.  Dany's dragons are very hardy to me.  They made it through the red waste when so many people didn't.  

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I wonder if the Dusky Woman can see through glamors given her reaction to Moqorro.

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Posted (edited)

13 hours ago, Rufus Snow said:

Now, I'm not suggesting that the Dusky Woman is not of the FM, it's a possibility, I grant, but the quote from the kindly man does not suggest FMs have their tongues cut out. I seem to recall 'Jaqen H'ghar' talking quite a lot, and all the other FMs are quite capable of saying 'I know this man'.

All the kindly man is saying is that every part of you must serve the MFG. If you wish to connect Him 'taking' the tongue to the Dusky Woman being an FM, then you'd also have to accept he takes the other parts too. An assassin who lacks ears, nose, tongue, sad grey eyes, hands, feet, arms, legs, and private parts is really on an uphill struggle for even a single hit. So on the evidence that the Dusky Woman still has arms, hands, legs and private parts at the very least we can assume she is NOT the FM who killed Balon.

Unless your post is just a wind-up, of course....

I'm not saying her tongue is cut out permanently. Arya took on a hideously disfigured face when she wore her disguise. The Dusky Woman could equally wear the face of someone whose tongue was cut out. The point the Kindly Old Man was making is that every part of you must be of service to them, and having no tongue for a period of time, and having to offer your private parts in service to Victarrion would be included in making such a disguise as convincing as possible.

A fate, by the way, that I seriously want Arya to escape, hence I hope she leaves the Faceless Men sooner rather than later.

 

Edited by Free Northman Reborn

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7 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

I'm not saying her tongue is cut out permanently. Arya took on a hideously disfigured face when she wore her disguise. The Dusky Woman could equally wear the face of someone whose tongue was cut out. The point the Kindly Old Man was making is that every part of you must be of service to them, and having no tongue for a period of time, and having to offer your private parts in service to Victarrion would be included in making such a disguise as convincing as possible.

A fate, by the way, that I seriously want Arya to escape, hence I hope she leaves the Faceless Men sooner rather than later.

 

OK, that would make more sense, if she was just wearing a face without a tongue, and of course part of the training might involve 'losing' the tongue in a similar manner to Arya 'losing' her eyes for a while.

As for Arya, I suspect she'll die a maid, though that's only based on the KM's explanation of 'women giving life, not death' and that they can't do both - which on the face of it sounds like BS, but could be a foreshadowing.

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Why does everyone in this series need to be some secret something or other?

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On 18/03/2018 at 7:08 PM, Son of Man said:

Dany's dragon eggs are from Asshai.  There is no reason for Magister Illyrio to lie about it.  It is the truth unless you can provide evidence that the Magister is lying.  

The reason he has to lie is that he does not want to reveal that he is a Blackfyre descendant and that he and Varys are plotting to usurp the IT from the Targaryen line.  We don't yet know why he gave those eggs to Dany. But he could hardly say here are some Dragon eggs which were taken by my ancestors, By the way we're using reverse psychology to send your brother with you into the Dothraki sea as he's such an irritating little shit we feel sure your new husband will end up killing him. Enjoy! 

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