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The young wolf of house stark.


oakbloodthesap

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On 3/18/2018 at 9:06 PM, oakbloodthesap said:
The young wolf of house stark
-  King of the north Robb stark and a really stupid idea that is not based on anything in the books but it does satisfy a sick craving within me.
Robb Starks love story goes that during the taking of the crag he toke an arrow in the arm  and was nursed back to health by Jayne westerling, during this time he is told of theons Greyjoy's betrayal and the lost of Winterfell, of  bran and rickon stark imprisonment. Jayne in Robb's anguish comforts him and they end up having sex. Robb like his father before him feels the need to save the young Jayne westerlings honor and ends up marrying her that night (or not long after).
- so I have this really stupid, like beyond stupid, possibly the stupidest idea ever presented here, even stupider than euron, benjen and darrio being everyone else, or mance being rhaegar, like that stupid of an idea,  that Robb Stark king of the north raped Jayne westerling (in the books a number of characters make mention of men who rape when there blood is up <in anger> the most notable character to state this is Jorah Mormont who says "there's a monster in ever man and it stirs (is born or is awoken) when you put a sword in his hands" (talking to Daenerys Targaryen  about the sacking of kings landing)
points of interest
1: Nothing at all, because this is incredibly stupid and I am embarrassed that I posted it, but I can't help myself when the stupid is dripping out of me

I fixed your post for you. it makes lots more sense now 

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1 hour ago, oakbloodthesap said:

ok not wanting to go to far off topic but what did Ned stark do that is so honorable? or how is he honorable?

Wow, a non-stupid question. If you do someday read the books you will see that ned claimed his sister's son by prince rhaegar (Jon Snow) as his own to protect Jon from his best friend who hates the targ line and dreams of killing rhaegar almost every night. Ned promised his sister, so he lived with constructed shame, the ire of his wife and the prospect of rarely leaving the north to protect Jon and fulfill his promise to his dead sister  

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To the OP I read your post thee times to make sure I understood where you were coming from but I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion. If Robb had raped Jayne we would have gotten clues in Catlyn's chapters like Robb touching Jaynes arm and Jayne flinching

16 hours ago, Ferocious Veldt Roarer said:

Yes, one of my favorite features of this forum: the never ending supply of posts "I have this idea, X raped Y", always with little or no evidence.

What. The. Fuck?...

 

But it's a great game here let me play

C+J=A

anyone guess? Ok Catlyn is so frustrated with Ned one day that she decides to bully the one child that looks like Ned. Instead of the normal distaste that she gives him she rapes Jon. And thats why Arya looks so much like Jon.

EDIT: OMG I just reread what I wrote I'm so sorry.

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8 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

Wow, a non-stupid question. If you do someday read the books you will see that ned claimed his sister's son by prince rhaegar (Jon Snow) as his own to protect Jon from his best friend who hates the targ line and dreams of killing rhaegar almost every night. Ned promised his sister, so he lived with constructed shame, the ire of his wife and the prospect of rarely leaving the north to protect Jon and fulfill his promise to his dead sister  

I'd also add Ned returning Dawn to Starfall after Arthur Daynes death. Even telling Cersei to run because he was going to tell Robert the truth about "his" kids, was honorable.  It was stupid but honorable.

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8 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

Wow, a non-stupid question. If you do someday read the books you will see that ned claimed his sister's son by prince rhaegar (Jon Snow) as his own to protect Jon from his best friend who hates the targ line and dreams of killing rhaegar almost every night. Ned promised his sister, so he lived with constructed shame, the ire of his wife and the prospect of rarely leaving the north to protect Jon and fulfill his promise to his dead sister  

That we have to debate such questions as whether Ned Stark was honourable or Robb was a rapist is proof, if it were needed, that people who have taken an irrational dislike to the Starks really are losing the plot!

There's zero evidence that Robb ever harmed Jayne, and plenty of evidence that they genuinely loved each other. Until that changes (and I'm pretty certain it won't), then this "theory" is nonsense. 

As to Ned. People may disagree with the decisions he made, or question whether all of his actions were right, from their own perspective. However, we know because we have POV chapters of his, that Ned was motivated by honourable motives, such as his desire to keep to a code of ethics he subscribed to, loyalty to his friend and foster father, and love of his family. 

We need Winds. Dear God, we need Winds. 

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26 minutes ago, Shouldve Taken The Black said:

people who have taken an irrational dislike to the Starks really are losing the plot!

Indeed. I'll add that there's a whole bunch in that group who are really gonna hate Winds. Can't. Wait. :lol:

 

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3 hours ago, Daemon The Black Dragon said:

I'd also add Ned returning Dawn to Starfall after Arthur Daynes death. Even telling Cersei to run because he was going to tell Robert the truth about "his" kids, was honorable.  It was stupid but honorable.

exactly 

3 hours ago, Shouldve Taken The Black said:

That we have to debate such questions as whether Ned Stark was honourable or Robb was a rapist is proof, if it were needed, that people who have taken an irrational dislike to the Starks really are losing the plot!

people are so wrapped up in GRRM being an amazing writer who will not do something predictable that they can't even let hte good guys be the good guys 

3 hours ago, Shouldve Taken The Black said:

There's zero evidence that Robb ever harmed Jayne, and plenty of evidence that they genuinely loved each other. Until that changes (and I'm pretty certain it won't), then this "theory" is nonsense. 

perhaps the OP is projecting something of themselves in the post? 

3 hours ago, Shouldve Taken The Black said:

As to Ned. People may disagree with the decisions he made, or question whether all of his actions were right, from their own perspective. However, we know because we have POV chapters of his, that Ned was motivated by honourable motives, such as his desire to keep to a code of ethics he subscribed to, loyalty to his friend and foster father, and love of his family. 

and we have all sorts of interviews with the author too, but the fans seem to want to ignore all of that to advance their rape fantasies   

 

3 hours ago, Shouldve Taken The Black said:

We need Winds. Dear God, we need Winds. 

seriously 

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Grammar can be tricky when writing in a second language. 

 

As for the op, I think a previous poster has the right of it. I get the impression Jeyne's mother pretty much shoved her romanticminded daughter down the king's....er...throat, and the kids were more than happy to oblige. Or she at least took advantage of the relationship for the Lannisters. (Notice how she also kept Jeyne from getting pregnant while pretending to help her be more fertile?) 

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ok let me try again (for those that are having diffculty following me)

i state that everything around and proceeding the events at the crag are false (a lie told to cat, as well as to the reader)
1 Tywin is given false credit in regards to the Westerlings and this "plot" to brake the Stark -Frey alliance is nothing more then luck and loyalty. the words Tywins says to Tyrion "some battles are won by quills rather then swords" was for his turning of the Boltons. not having the Westerlings daughter bewitch Robb Stark. those events are Theons, to which Roose Bolton says as much when talking to Theon Greyjoy turned Reek " i mean you no harm, you know. i owe you much and more."...what do you owe me, m'lord? " the north. the starks were done and doomed the night that you took Winterfell. " adwd page 474
2 the story : gates of the Crag Robb is wounded Jeyne nurse's him back to health, Theon betrays Robb, him and Jeyne have sex, Robb marries Jeyne to save her honor destroying the Frey - Stark alliance.
- why was Robb doing grunt work storming the gates of the crag. he could  have been easily killed by a arrow/crossbow-bolt.
- why was Jeyne left alone with Robb ( both her mother wouldn't want her to be alone* and Robbs personal guards wouldn't want her to be alone with him for the following reasons. poisoning, assassination (with dagger),a basterd that king Joffery could legitimize, and sure why not for honors sack. (wouldn't his guard find it strange that her mother wants her close to him at all times. although now that i say that out load maybe she would for fear of her being dishonored by any one of Robbs Northman who was with him at the crag at the time (or river men)
-why would Jeyne care for Robb in the emotional sense he just captured her family's castle and now holds her and her family hostage. ( yes the young and handsome Robb Stark and the giant dire wolf she is terrorfied of )
- the plan has a catch 22 if Robb is so honorable that apon dishonoring a fair young maid he would seek to save her honor above his own thus ending the Stark - Frey alliance then why would he dishonor her and the honor of house stark in the first place you can't have it both ways either he's honorable and would not dishonor himself or he's not honorable and wouldn't give a shit about her honor.
- also as a whole Robb could of just waved her away to be taken to any number of castles or keeps (sea-guard) to wait out the rest of the war as a hostage. (after taking the crag)
i propose that apon hearing of Theon betrayal. Robb reaction would be one of anger not sadness as told to cat. and in said anger ( one thing led to another ) and Robb toke Jeyne against her will, and in shame choice to instead of either covering it up or just leaving her as damaged goods choice to wed her putting her honor and the honor of house Stark above his own and house Frey.
i also point out that Robb Stark did rape Jeyne westerling in the technical sense as he deflowered her and wed her with out her lord fathers blessing and also if she was betroved as she most likely was.
 
22 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

Wow, a non-stupid question. If you do someday read the books you will see that ned claimed his sister's son by prince rhaegar (Jon Snow) as his own to protect Jon from his best friend who hates the targ line and dreams of killing rhaegar almost every night. Ned promised his sister, so he lived with constructed shame, the ire of his wife and the prospect of rarely leaving the north to protect Jon and fulfill his promise to his dead sister  


L + R = J  allegedly!
ok so Ned risks the wrath of his friend and king, the lives of his small folk and nobles, sons and daughters, ward and wife (as well as her family's lands and people to protect the life of a child that as far as everyone else is concerned is the spawn of rape. as well as a Targaryen with a claim on the throne that would raise any eyebrow as to what motives ned has for this child.
who betrayed his king and realm because he couldn't stomach the thought ( or how it would look on him ) of seeing the queen and her basterds slain at the hands of his friend and king! because he doesn't like the out come!
who bitchs and moans about the kingslayer when he was gunna do the exact same thing.
also if robb is ned 2.0 is jon snow 2.0 as well? becuse that basterd broke his vows and betrayed the north by leting in a wildling horde.
i think purpleyeswtf said it the best "its against my moral compass" "...your moral compass is a roulette wheel!"
 
13 hours ago, Daemon The Black Dragon said:

I'd also add Ned returning Dawn to Starfall after Arthur Daynes death. Even telling Cersei to run because he was going to tell Robert the truth about "his" kids, was honorable.  It was stupid but honorable.


the return of the sword dawn might have been to see Ashara Dyane again ( a pretense ). no warning Cersei wasn't honorable he betrayed his king when he did so. risking the wrath of his king and thus putting the lives of his daughters at risk all for his "honor" (if everything went according to him)
do you belive the events that transpired at the crag as told to catherine tully stark?
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28 minutes ago, oakbloodthesap said:


i also point out that Robb Stark did rape Jeyne westerling in the technical sense as he deflowered her and wed her with out her lord fathers blessing and also if she was betroved as she most likely was.

 

When is that ever mentioned in the text as defining rape? If this is what you meant by rape then why only state this now? Literally no sane person regards that as a definition of rape. 

32 minutes ago, oakbloodthesap said:

do you belive the events that transpired at the crag as told to catherine tully stark?

The fact you don’t even remember the name of a major POV character tells me all I need to know. I find it frankly disturbing how so many members on this forum throw around rape as if it isn’t something horrific that happens to huge numbers of real people. Why would Robb rape Jeyne because he was angry that his brothers have been killed? That is just a horrifying and despicable thing to do, and is completely against Robb’s character. Do you believe he is portrayed as a sick rapist who would force himself upon a girl because somebody totally unconnected murdered his brothers? Do you believe he would then compound this by forcing his rape victim to marry him? Do you take him for Ramsay Bolton?

I implore you to think thrice before so casually throwing around x raped y theories, and to reflect upon where this twisted logic of yours come from. It isn’t normal.

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4 minutes ago, Jaehaerys Tyrell said:

When is that ever mentioned in the text as defining rape? If this is what you meant by rape then why only state this now? Literally no sane person regards that as a definition of rape. 

The fact you don’t even remember the name of a major POV character tells me all I need to know. I find it frankly disturbing how so many members on this forum throw around rape as if it isn’t something horrific that happens to huge numbers of real people. Why would Robb rape Jeyne because he was angry that his brothers have been killed? That is just a horrifying and despicable thing to do, and is completely against Robb’s character. Do you believe he is portrayed as a sick rapist who would force himself upon a girl because somebody totally unconnected murdered his brothers? Do you believe he would then compound this by forcing his rape victim to marry him? Do you take him for Ramsay Bolton?

I implore you to think thrice before so casually throwing around x raped y theories, and to reflect upon where this twisted logic of yours come from. It isn’t normal.

in this medieval setting the concept of rape can be used when a man has sex with a female with out the blessing of her father hence the idea of betrothed and blessing. image you are Jeyne westerlings father held hostage at sea guard and you are informed that your castle was taken by the young wolf then you are informed that your daughter has wed this young wolf your first thoughts are not o my girl finally found true love. no more along the lines of I'm going to kill that f**ken ( no idea how much swearing is allowed) bastard who raped my daughter. this is evident in Robert's rebellion Lyanna was betrothed to Robert Baratheon by her father when the prince kidnapped her. she could not consent because she belonged to Robert. ( yes its outdated ) 

 

do you believe the events that unfolded at the crag as told to Catelyn Tully Stark? for some reason my mind remembered it as Catherin no idea why. 

Robb Stark is young reckless and driven by emotions, quick to anger. he is portrayed as a hero. eager to please, reluctant and undisciplined,. forced into something he was not ready for in the words of his father "he's just a boy"

only got one more Tyrion and Tysha or the sob story revisited. ( my opinion of his story and a rethink )

 

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6 hours ago, oakbloodthesap said:

ok let me try again (for those that are having diffculty following me)

I don't think anyone is having difficulties following what you are saying. The difficulty is in trying to understand where are you getting this from? What gave you this idea? There's no point in repeating the same thing over and over again. What would be helpful (!) is if you could provide anything from the text that supports this inane notion. And the difficulty here is, you can't because there is absolutely nothing in the text that supports your idea, nor anything hinting at it in any way, shape or form. 

6 hours ago, oakbloodthesap said:


i state that everything around and proceeding the events at the crag are false (a lie told to cat, as well as to the reader)

Why? What makes you think it's all lies? Where are the hints, clues, etc? 

Thats right, there are none. And since there is nothing in the text suggesting this or hinting at it, one is left wondering why and how you would reach this conclusion. And to be honest, I'd rather not dwell too long on it because it's kind of scary. 

6 hours ago, oakbloodthesap said:


i state that everything around and proceeding the events at the crag are false (a lie told to cat, as well as to the reader)
1 Tywin is given false credit in regards to the Westerlings and this "plot" to brake the Stark -Frey alliance is nothing more then luck and loyalty. the words Tywins says to Tyrion "some battles are won by quills rather then swords" was for his turning of the Boltons. not having the Westerlings daughter bewitch Robb Stark. those events are Theons, to which Roose Bolton says as much when talking to Theon Greyjoy turned Reek " i mean you no harm, you know. i owe you much and more."...what do you owe me, m'lord? " the north. the starks were done and doomed the night that you took Winterfell. " adwd page 474

Yes, of course Tywin's words to Tyrion are about the RW. No one is disputing that. The thing is, Tywin is also involved in the plot w/ the Westerlings. That's why when Jaime goes to Riverrun he has that little convo w/ Jeyne's mum, where she brings up that she's kept her part of the bargain, and now Jaime should pay his (family) debts, like a good little lion. And we do see the Westerlings receive pardons, lands, and titles. The Lannisters rewarded the Westerlings for betraying Robb and the Starks.

6 hours ago, oakbloodthesap said:

2 the story : gates of the Crag Robb is wounded Jeyne nurse's him back to health, Theon betrays Robb, him and Jeyne have sex, Robb marries Jeyne to save her honor destroying the Frey - Stark alliance.
- why was Robb doing grunt work storming the gates of the crag. he could  have been easily killed by a arrow/crossbow-bolt.

Because throughout the war Robb was directly involved in the battles they fought. I don't even understand how can you suggest this is a clue pointing towards something dodgy when the text makes it all so clear. 

 

7 hours ago, oakbloodthesap said:

- why was Jeyne left alone with Robb ( both her mother wouldn't want her to be alone* and Robbs personal guards wouldn't want her to be alone with him for the following reasons. poisoning, assassination (with dagger),a basterd that king Joffery could legitimize, and sure why not for honors sack. (wouldn't his guard find it strange that her mother wants her close to him at all times. although now that i say that out load maybe she would for fear of her being dishonored by any one of Robbs Northman who was with him at the crag at the time (or river men)
-why would Jeyne care for Robb in the emotional sense he just captured her family's castle and now holds her and her family hostage. ( yes the young and handsome Robb Stark and the giant dire wolf she is terrorfied of )

Jeyne's mother not only wanted them to be alone but probably encouraged it and made it happen, as explained above.

 

7 hours ago, oakbloodthesap said:

the plan has a catch 22 if Robb is so honorable that apon dishonoring a fair young maid he would seek to save her honor above his own thus ending the Stark - Frey alliance then why would he dishonor her and the honor of house stark in the first place you can't have it both ways either he's honorable and would not dishonor himself or he's not honorable and wouldn't give a shit about her hono

Tywin's plan had risks, surely, like most plans do. None to him personally or the Lannisters tough. The risk is if Robb doesn't fall for it, but then so what? I'm sure Tywin didn't give two fucks about what would happen to the Westerlings if the plan backfired. As it turns out, Tywin's assessment of what Robb would do was pretty spot on. 

 

7 hours ago, oakbloodthesap said:

i propose that apon hearing of Theon betrayal. Robb reaction would be one of anger not sadness as told to cat. and in said anger ( one thing led to another ) and Robb toke Jeyne against her will, and in shame choice to instead of either covering it up or just leaving her as damaged goods choice to wed her putting her honor and the honor of house Stark above his own and house Frey.

Yes, we all got what you are proposing the first time around. The problem, again, is there is no basis for any of this. None whatsoever. Zero, zip, zilch, nada. And again I must ask, what made you think this? What gave you this idea? 

 

7 hours ago, oakbloodthesap said:

i also point out that Robb Stark did rape Jeyne westerling in the technical sense as he deflowered her and wed her with out her lord fathers blessing and also if she was betroved as she most likely was

Now you are changing your tune somewhat. Still, nothing in the text to suggest, support or hint at this at all. So, again, where is it coming from? 

And why is it "likely" that Jeyne was betrothed to anyone? It's actually not likely at all, since not a single character makes any mention of it at any point. 

7 hours ago, oakbloodthesap said:
ok so Ned risks the wrath of his friend and king, the lives of his small folk and nobles, sons and daughters, ward and wife (as well as her family's lands and people to protect the life of a child that as far as everyone else is concerned is the spawn of rape. as well as a Targaryen with a claim on the throne that would raise any eyebrow as to what motives ned has for this child.
who betrayed his king and realm because he couldn't stomach the thought ( or how it would look on him ) of seeing the queen and her basterds slain at the hands of his friend and king! because he doesn't like the out come!
who bitchs and moans about the kingslayer when he was gunna do the exact same thing.
also if robb is ned 2.0 is jon snow 2.0 as well? becuse that basterd broke his vows and betrayed the north by leting in a wildling horde.
i think purpleyeswtf said it the best "its against my moral compass" "...your moral compass is a roulette wheel!"
 

I have no idea what you're on about here. Especially where you say Ned was bitching about Jaime but was going to do the exact same thing? 

 

7 hours ago, oakbloodthesap said:
the return of the sword dawn might have been to see Ashara Dyane again ( a pretense ). no warning Cersei wasn't honorable he betrayed his king when he did so. risking the wrath of his king and thus putting the lives of his daughters at risk all for his "honor" (if everything went according to him)
do you belive the events that transpired at the crag as told to catherine tully stark?

Warning Cersei was honourable, Ned wanted to save Cersei's bastards. The sins of the father (and mother) and all that. 

And yes, I do believe what happened was what was told to Catelyn. 

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8 hours ago, oakbloodthesap said:
ok let me try again (for those that are having diffculty following me)
 

That's arrogant. The reason people aren't lining up to pat you in the back and yell "By Jove, you're right!" isn't because they "have difficulty following you". It's because your theory is crap. Sorry.

(JK. Not really sorry.)

8 hours ago, oakbloodthesap said:

i state that everything around and proceeding the events at the crag are false (a lie told to cat, as well as to the reader)

You need to provide textual evidence. Saying "I state" isn't enough. Give us quotes from the books, or else get used to people "having difficulty following you".

8 hours ago, oakbloodthesap said:

i also point out that Robb Stark did rape Jeyne westerling in the technical sense as he deflowered her and wed her with out her lord fathers blessing and also if she was betroved as she most likely was.

Both are, what they call in court dramas, "assuming fact without evidence" (I imagine that you meant "betrothed"; use a spellchecker, BTW, web browsers have them). And, even if true (and that's an "if"), I'm very much afraid that the argument "Robb Stark violated the sacred laws treating Jeyne Westerling as her lord father's property" will mostly fall on deaf ears.

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