Daemon The Black Dragon Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 8 hours ago, oakbloodthesap said: the return of the sword dawn might have been to see Ashara Dyane again ( a pretense ). no warning Cersei wasn't honorable he betrayed his king when he did so. risking the wrath of his king and thus putting the lives of his daughters at risk all for his "honor" (if everything went according to him) do you belive the events that transpired at the crag as told to catherine tully stark? Why shouldn't I believe the story of the Crag? What purpose would there be for GRRM to lie to the readers about those events? It adds nothing to the story, especially with Robb dead. Funny the Westerlings never say Robb Stark raped Jeyne Westerling, especially after his death or after the Lannisters take Riverrun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyberdirectorfreedom Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 1 hour ago, kissdbyfire said: I have no idea what you're on about here. Especially where you say Ned was bitching about Jaime but was going to do the exact same thing? What you had quoted was denying Perfect Ned's perfect honour. The part about Ned bitching about Jaime could only be about Ned's harsh judgement of Jaime killing Aerys, despite the fact that he was there to overthrow (and therefore kill) Aerys himself. I personally don't think that Ned's honourable reputation is entirely deserved. The OP is definitely right about that. The thing about Robb is patently ridiculous, however. No textual evidence whatsoever. You know what they say, even a broken clock is right twice a day. The thing about Ned, one of the two correct times. The thing about Robb, one of the 86,398 incorrect times. At least OP isn't a broken digital clock, though. Those are never right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 38 minutes ago, cyberdirectorfreedom said: What you had quoted was denying Perfect Ned's perfect honour. The part about Ned bitching about Jaime could only be about Ned's harsh judgement of Jaime killing Aerys, despite the fact that he was there to overthrow (and therefore kill) Aerys himself. The difference is, Ser Jaime was a knight of the Kingsguard. And he seemed to join the rebel side at the most opportune moment. So, apples and frag grenades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf of the Steppes Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 On 3/20/2018 at 0:19 AM, Dorian Martell's son said: I fixed your post for you. it makes lots more sense now This had me rollin'! I state that everything around or having to do with this topic is false because I can't believe this fu*%@n thing has lasted this long or garnered 43 responses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell's son Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 13 hours ago, oakbloodthesap said: ok let me try again (for those that are having diffculty following me) i state that everything around and proceeding the events at the crag are false (a lie told to cat, as well as to the reader) then what is the point of her POV and everything that is told through it? Since she is the only view into these events, there would be no other info to base your rape fantasy on. So your supposition that everything in her POV is a lie is really just convenience to put forth your own rapey fan fic. 14 hours ago, oakbloodthesap said: 1 Tywin is given false credit in regards to the Westerlings and this "plot" to brake the Stark -Frey alliance is nothing more then luck and loyalty. the words Tywins says to Tyrion "some battles are won by quills rather then swords" was for his turning of the Boltons. not having the Westerlings daughter bewitch Robb Stark. those events are Theons, to which Roose Bolton says as much when talking to Theon Greyjoy turned Reek " i mean you no harm, you know. i owe you much and more."...what do you owe me, m'lord? " the north. the starks were done and doomed the night that you took Winterfell. " adwd page 474 this makes no sense and does not add to your rapey fan fic 14 hours ago, oakbloodthesap said: 2 the story : gates of the Crag Robb is wounded Jeyne nurse's him back to health, Theon betrays Robb, him and Jeyne have sex, Robb marries Jeyne to save her honor destroying the Frey - Stark alliance. - why was Robb doing grunt work storming the gates of the crag. he could have been easily killed by a arrow/crossbow-bolt. Leading from the front, like Julius Cesar in Gaul. 14 hours ago, oakbloodthesap said: - why was Jeyne left alone with Robb ( both her mother wouldn't want her to be alone* and Robbs personal guards wouldn't want her to be alone with him for the following reasons. poisoning, assassination (with dagger),a basterd that king Joffery could legitimize, and sure why not for honors sack. (wouldn't his guard find it strange that her mother wants her close to him at all times. although now that i say that out load maybe she would for fear of her being dishonored by any one of Robbs Northman who was with him at the crag at the time (or river men) A poor house that has just been conquered. Send your pretty daughter to care for the king/conqueror. IIt worked. Seems pretty simple, even if it does not add to your rape fantasy fan fic. 14 hours ago, oakbloodthesap said: - the plan has a catch 22 if Robb is so honorable that apon dishonoring a fair young maid he would seek to save her honor above his own thus ending the Stark - Frey alliance then why would he dishonor her and the honor of house stark in the first place you can't have it both ways either he's honorable and would not dishonor himself or he's not honorable and wouldn't give a shit about her honor. He was 15. . I mean, look at this "theory" you are writing. I am sure when you turn 16 you will look back on this and understand your lack of judgement at 15 14 hours ago, oakbloodthesap said: - also as a whole Robb could of just waved her away to be taken to any number of castles or keeps (sea-guard) to wait out the rest of the war as a hostage. (after taking the crag) He could have, but if he made no mistakes we wouldn't have the story we have, which is the son rising up to avenge his father. GRRM loves to shoot down those old tropes. So he shot Robb full of arrows 14 hours ago, oakbloodthesap said: i propose that apon hearing of Theon betrayal. Robb reaction would be one of anger not sadness as told to cat. and in said anger ( one thing led to another ) and Robb toke Jeyne against her will, and in shame choice to instead of either covering it up or just leaving her as damaged goods choice to wed her putting her honor and the honor of house Stark above his own and house Frey. But none of this is conveyed in the story, so it is just your rape fantasy fan fic. The author literally writes something completely different and you do not like it. That does not make it false 14 hours ago, oakbloodthesap said: i also point out that Robb Stark did rape Jeyne westerling in the technical sense as he deflowered her and wed her with out her lord fathers blessing and also if she was betroved as she most likely was. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape you seem literate enough to crap post in here, so I will advise you to look up words before you use them. 14 hours ago, oakbloodthesap said: L + R = J allegedly No, it has been confirmed to 2 years now, we can't talk about it in here though. 14 hours ago, oakbloodthesap said: ok so Ned risks the wrath of his friend and king, the lives of his small folk and nobles, sons and daughters, ward and wife (as well as her family's lands and people to protect the life of a child that as far as everyone else is concerned is the spawn of rape. as well as a Targaryen with a claim on the throne that would raise any eyebrow as to what motives ned has for this child. That is the point. He promised his sister to protect her son, his blood. and he did 14 hours ago, oakbloodthesap said: who betrayed his king and realm because he couldn't stomach the thought ( or how it would look on him ) of seeing the queen and her basterds slain at the hands of his friend and king! because he doesn't like the out come! who bitchs and moans about the kingslayer when he was gunna do the exact same thing. also if robb is ned 2.0 is jon snow 2.0 as well? becuse that basterd broke his vows and betrayed the north by leting in a wildling horde. i think purpleyeswtf said it the best "its against my moral compass" "...your moral compass is a roulette wheel!" WTF are you talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell's son Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 10 minutes ago, Wolf of the Steppes said: This had me rollin'! I state that everything around or having to do with this topic is false because I can't believe this fu*%@n thing has lasted this long or garnered 43 responses. Well, each book takes at least a year longer to write than the last one, so I can only imagine that rape fantasy posts like this one will become more common between now and the 2025v release of ADOS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mon ami Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 On 3/19/2018 at 0:06 AM, oakbloodthesap said: in his anger does he takes the young maiden Jayne westerling against her will (could have even been poisoned to be more lust full (bar the westerling conspiracy ) either way Robb in guilt of taking Jayne's maidenhood feels it is more honorable to wed her to save her honor. (putting hers above his ) or was he saving the honor of house stark? I have seen any clues yet that would lead me to believe Robb took Jeyne by force. On 3/19/2018 at 0:06 AM, oakbloodthesap said: why did Robb's personal guard leave Robb stark (there king) alone with Jayne westerling (they just sacked her home killing gods know how many people yes they surrendered but still wouldn't it be there maester that would be ordered to look at robbs wounds and not some 16 year old. (its there king for fuck sack) Robb will have had personal guards. Jeyne didn't seem threatening in their opinion. It maybe they were careless to allow this but people have been careless before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowy Tends Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 27 minutes ago, Mon ami said: I have seen any clues yet that would lead me to believe Robb took Jeyne by force. Really? Can you provide a quote? (I doubt it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Mac Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 13 minutes ago, Nowy Tends said: Really? Can you provide a quote? (I doubt it) I think he missed the word 'not'. The sentence, even without the missing word, suggests that he has not seen any evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowy Tends Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 58 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said: I think he missed the word 'not'. The sentence, even without the missing word, suggests that he has not seen any evidence. Yes, makes sense. Actually I had a doubt because of the word "any"… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Light a wight tonight Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 On 3/19/2018 at 9:03 AM, Widowmaker 811 said: We should all be mindful that this is an international fan site. Many of our friends here are not from English-speaking countries. I have noticed over the years that the membership has gotten broader, in terms of diversity. For the good, I might add. Non-native speakers of English have been here since forever, and one thing I've noticed is that many, if not most, of them express themselves better in English than a good many native speakers do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakbloodthesap Posted March 22, 2018 Author Share Posted March 22, 2018 did not intended to be perceived as arrogant. nowy tends said he found it difficult to understand my argument (formation/grammer...) and i assumed others would as well. thare is no textural evidence. this theory was founded more on doubts. to many how's,why"s the events are told by robb stark no one is going to question the king. it is not writen in stone other wise grrm would have writen it in robbs (or someone close to him at the time)"s pov as for why it would be brought up after all robb is dead i'l argue to show the war wasn't black and white, or the starks are not as honorable as you think. look to the folks that are omg your sick,disturbing,stupid ! not my young wolf king of the north... lol look it's not the strongest of theorys. it was/is a snow ball theory. why would Robb's emotional reaction be sadness wouldn't it be anger..."jorah quote" o... did robb rape Jeyne? question how much time had passed for robb to have captured the carg received word of theons betrayal and marched back to riverrun. (keep in mind that cat travaled all the way to talk with renly and stannis,stay for a day then make her way back before robb had arrived back at riverrun) it would go to explaining jeyne's lack of reaction tywin and his ploting with lady wasterling would of mounted to nothing but hopes if it wasn't for theon betrayal. it seems to me that tywin would of spent a lot of time and energy on something that could to-easly be a waste of time. its made out after-words that tywin had planed it all. (it's aganst his chraracter is what im geting at)(ok the plan is to wound him not kill him so that hopefully he would deflower the westerlings eldest daughter and that would force him to marry her thus brakeing the Stark - Frey alliance hopefuly. do you think Tywin would come up with a plan that included hopefully,mabye,if) this also opens up what did Tywin mean by Robb Stark is like his father and jeyne westerling is like her mother? yes robb fought in the vanguard through-out the war of the five kings (or he fought in battles that had importance ) its more of wow his plot armor was working 110 % right up till the rw jeyne and her betrothal. nvm her father once tried to offer her as a possable match to willem and or martyn lannister but was turned down do to low standing. now why is that becuse robb is king and no one would dare call him out?. why do you think robb metioned not having her father's blessing and that "he isn't going to be happy" if it wasn't anything important. why would not haveing her fathers blessing be bad? why would it be worthy of note. (then again why would robb bring attention to it. might have been a slip up on his part.) r + l = j confimed link? source? wylla? and or that girl in the sisters? the kings wrath. tell me do you belive ned would give up jon if the king found out and demanded jon be handed over? no, no he would not so what do you think the king would do. would it be on the lines of declaring war. do you think the northern bannermen want to die over what they well see as a rape child, what cat would see as a rape child,what sansa would see as a rape child. do you think robert would make a diffrance between ned and his children? no i think its pretty safe to say robert would go after neds children and kin. he puts everyones life at risk to satisfy his notion of honor. o he risks a great many things for the sake of honor and a vow what a honorable person. no! you see it from one point of view and refuss to see it from another. "wtf are you talking about?" in reguards to what point 1,2 or 3? 1- he allows the queen a chance to flee after she admitted to treason aganst her king. she has the royal duty to produce hairs for him ( or daughters ) and choice not to. betraying her king by producing imposters born of incest. from one point of view he believes what he did was honorable from the other he betrayed his king thus puting the lives of his kin in danger of the kings wrath. question when the king found out after ned tells him that ned stark hand of the king let the traitorus queen escape, how would he react and what do you think he would have done. keep in mind this is all for neds idea of mercy and honor. was puting his kin in danger honorable? 2- do you think that if robert had killed the mad king ned stark would show him as much distain as he did to the kingslayer. keep in mind that robert is a kinslayer after he killed the prince yet ned doesn't seem to care. 3- at the end of it all what do you think those wildlings well do after the big bad guy is distroyed? stop thare raiding? thare practice of stealing wives? no? jon snow is worse then ramsey bolton becuse. ramsey well at less from time to time satisfy his sadistic nature well jon snow well keep doing everything he has done with a clear conscience. yes it could be that robb's personal guard where careless and or just didn't see her as a threat. on a last note after weding this girl a daughter of a lannister bannermen infront of the freys that he gave a oath to. he gets offended when black walder said "his sisters would not be loath to wed a widower" and the only thing that stoped him from killing him was jeyne who "begged me to be merciful." when cat points out that he did a grave insult to the freys by marrying a girl from a lesser house robb reples with (robb bristled at that.) "the westerlings are better blood than the freys.the kings of the rock sometimes wed westerlings before conquest, and thare was another jeyne westerling who was queen to king maegor three hundred year ago" asos page 196 he has a history of geting angry easly. and of rash action does this mean robb raped jeyne no but its not that far of a stretch anymore. also the time he pulled steel on his own mother "the lannisters killed my father" "did you think i have forgotten that?" "i don't know. have you?" "you are king in the north, the choice is yours. i only ask that you think on what i've said. the singers make much of kings who die valiantly in battle, but you life is worth more than a song. to me at least, who gave it to you." she lowered her head "do i have your leave to go?" "yes" he turned away and drew his sword. what he meant to do with it, she could not say. there was no enemy there, no one to fight. only her and him, amongst tall tress and fallen leaves. asos page 483 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralphis Baratheon Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 Lets say your right and Robb was more angry then sad, why would that lead to him raping the nice girl that was tending to his wound? Are you contending that every time Robb gets really angry he rapes people? Did he rape someone when Joff made fun of him at Winterfell? Or when he found out the Crown imprisoned his father? Or when Joff had his father executed? His enemies claim that Robb turns into a wolf and eats people. Is that true? No, however, he does have a direwolf that kills people in battles, so that lie is based on a bit of truth. If he was a serial rapist then I think the Lannisters/Freys would be spreading that information along with the story about him turning into a werewolf. Just my opinion though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teej6 Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 57 minutes ago, oakbloodthesap said: it was/is a snow ball theory. If by snowball theory you mean a stupid wishful thinking, fanfic, based on NO textual evidence (even remotely) theory, then yes, that’s exactly what it is. Not everything in the books should have a double/different meaning. Some of the storylines, plots and characters are exatly what they are in the text and there’s no need to assign rediculous assumptions or pull nonesical ideas out of thin air to provide a different meaning to them. As for Ned’s honor, he is considered honorable even by his enemies. That’s what defines his character. Whether the reader likes Ned for his code or not is another matter. Currently in the books, there is no indication that Ned was not an honorable man. For crying out loud we even have his POV chapters to show us how honorable the man was. Anyway, unless and until GRRM says differently, Ned is and will be an honotable man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teej6 Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 4 hours ago, Light a wight tonight said: Non-native speakers of English have been here since forever, and one thing I've noticed is that many, if not most, of them express themselves better in English than a good many native speakers do. Yeah I don’t know where the poster got the idea that non-native English speakers are a recent addition to this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kandrax Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 2 hours ago, Ralphis Baratheon said: Did he rape someone when Joff made fun of him at Winterfell? Or when he found out the Crown imprisoned his father? Or when Joff had his father executed? Well, in OP's defence, he wasn't in a war at that moments. PS: I disaggree with OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 3 hours ago, Ralphis Baratheon said: Lets say your right and Robb was more angry then sad, why would that lead to him raping the nice girl that was tending to his wound? Are you contending that every time Robb gets really angry he rapes people? Did he rape someone when Joff made fun of him at Winterfell? Or when he found out the Crown imprisoned his father? Or when Joff had his father executed? His enemies claim that Robb turns into a wolf and eats people. Is that true? No, however, he does have a direwolf that kills people in battles, so that lie is based on a bit of truth. If he was a serial rapist then I think the Lannisters/Freys would be spreading that information along with the story about him turning into a werewolf. Just my opinion though. Perhaps he likes to do the rapings in wolf form so no connection is established? And Jeyne must be a dog person so she was fine with it. To get serious Jeyne was happy with Robb, and Robb even married her. I don't think it would be so if Robb raped her, at least not at start. As for Robb, if he raped her, why marry her especially if it means losing Freys? He could've just acted like the mountain with the Bracken girl... or even Elia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowy Tends Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 5 hours ago, oakbloodthesap said: he has a history of geting angry easly. and of rash action does this mean robb raped jeyne no but its not that far of a stretch anymore. as if rape was a consequence of anger… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf of the Steppes Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 49 minutes ago, Nowy Tends said: as if rape was a consequence of anger… Of course it is.......This topic has gotten under my skin so badly that I'm feeling a bit rapey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commentator Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 13 hours ago, Light a wight tonight said: Non-native speakers of English have been here since forever, and one thing I've noticed is that many, if not most, of them express themselves better in English than a good many native speakers do. Mayhaps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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