oakbloodthesap Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 The young wolf of house stark - King of the north Robb stark and a theory Robb Starks love story goes that during the taking of the crag he toke an arrow in the arm and was nursed back to health by Jayne westerling, during this time he is told of theons Greyjoy's betrayal and the lost of Winterfell, of bran and rickon stark imprisonment. Jayne in Robb's anguish comforts him and they end up having sex. Robb like his father before him feels the need to save the young Jayne westerlings honor and ends up marrying her that night (or not long after). - so I have this theory that Robb stark king of the north raped Jayne westerling (in the books a number of characters make mention of men who rape when there blood is up <in anger> the most notable character to state this is Jonah Mormont who says "there's a monster in ever man and it stirs (is born or is awoken) when you put a sword in his hands" (talking to Daenerys Targaryen about the sacking of kings landing) points of interest 1 why would Jayne care about Robb stark being wounded. (he's the only one holding the leach back on his men from killing everyone she knows could be argued) why would she care about Robb losing two of his brothers at the hands of Theon Greyjoy? ( in-contrast she lives in fear of greywind who bar robbs own admission killed someone she knew ) 2 why was Jayne entrusted with robbs care (ok she was less a healer and more of a servant could be an argument)(could of been forced to by one of robbs companions could be argued might also hint that one of robbs personal guard might have been a <for lack of better word = spy/traitor> (no maester but my daughter knows something's from a woods witch for example)? 3 hearing of ones childhood friend betraying you and taking your younger brothers as hostages and raiding of the north by the ironborn would react a emotional reaction by Robb <one of anger> (instead of sadness as we are to believe) (apon hearing of his closest friend Theon Greyjoy who he has know and befriended for ten years, choices to apon being set free by Robb stark not to attack the westerlands as planed and set in motion but instead to attack the north taking the neck cutting off supplies from the north and trapping Robb in the south, has aided his father in capturing the glovers keep and kin, Winterfell and has taken the young lords bran stark and rickon stark as hostages. in his anger does he takes the young maiden Jayne westerling against her will (could have even been poisoned to be more lust full (bar the westerling conspiracy ) either way Robb in guilt of taking Jayne's maidenhood feels it is more honorable to wed her to save her honor. (putting hers above his ) or was he saving the honor of house stark? Counter arguments - why did Robb's personal guard leave Robb stark (there king) alone with Jayne westerling (they just sacked her home killing gods know how many people yes they surrendered but still wouldn't it be there maester that would be ordered to look at robbs wounds and not some 16 year old. (its there king for fuck sack) Why would Jayne westerling love (seems to be in love with) Robb stark, why would the rest of the westerling household be fond of Robb stark (willingly joining him, serving as his squire) and why would he bring his victim to meat his mother = after the rape Robb stark is ashamed of his dishonor and weds Jayne westerling whom he could of just thrown aside and marched on leaving her dishonored and with child a bastard spawn of rape, he could have on the other hand sought to cover up his dishonor by slaying all of house westerling and its small folk forcing his personal guard to swear before both gods and men never to speak of what happened at the crag (keeping this in mind one can see why Robb Starks former squire thought nothing of Robb Starks broken promise to wed a Frey (he wanted to continue as Robb Starks squire*) or they just didn't know. (would go to explaining his sheepish remark) OK so some background is needed technical Robb stark king of the north did rape the maiden Jayne westerling as he had just conquered her family's keep the crag and with out blessing from her lord father had sex with her and again when he wed her with out her fathers blessing who was held captive at seaguard (this can be seen in Lyanna Starks and Robert Baratheon's betrothal, Lyanna kidnapping and the down fall of house Targaryen) this brings up a vary important issue never addressed was Jayne westerling betroven to anyone? if so than by all accounts Robb stark stole Jayne westerlings maiden head and thus raped her. Regardless if the sex was consensual. Key points Jayne was a noble and with out her father's blessing any sexual encounter was rape in the technical sense. - is it ever mentioned who gave her away at the wedding and did lady westerling give blessing to this marriage? I believe all this well come to light when a Frey is confronted by a stark or sooner by a Frey to Stannis + Robbs letter Jayne makes mention of to cat Robb stark was writing a letter to Theon Greyjoy. (when Jayne asked cat what he could do for him she stats Robb was at his desk writing a letter but wouldn't say to who and didn't want to be disturbed = he was writing a letter to Theon Greyjoy who as of last report had held Winterfell and flayed bran and rickon. He couldn't find the words so it was never finished (as of what we know could be a reason Theon accepts his fate at the hands of Ramsey snow (he didn't want to think of anything before he knew his name, "almost as painful as the flaying knife" (could result in Theon "loving" Ramsey as he stops Reek from dwelling on what he did in the past ( in a twisted sort of way) (keep in mind this letter would be after Robb learns of Bran and Rickson's "fate" ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormking902 Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 Come again ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowy Tends Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 And now he's a rapist. The anti Stark troop men are indefatigable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 Nothing here makes any sense whatsoever, and I'm struggling to understand where is this idea coming from to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fattest Leech Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 I think this main op got lost. Isn’t there is non-book based bad fan fiction section over on Reddit somewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckPunch Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 You should research some basic rules of formatting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 Yes, one of my favorite features of this forum: the never ending supply of posts "I have this idea, X raped Y", always with little or no evidence. What. The. Fuck?... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus Snow Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 @oakbloodthesap I'm afraid I pretty much disagree with everything you wrote, but will tell you why. I don't accept the 'sack and rape' scenario. The Crag surrendered, and that usually comes with terms - usually of the safe conduct and honourable behaviour type on the part of the besiegers. That Jeyne 'nursed' Robb doesn't imply that she was the clinical lead - the maester would have done the real work, whilst Jeyne just sat beside the bed and simpered over this handsome young Lord. (But why would she not be capable? She is descended, on her mother's Spicer side, from Maggy the Frog after all...) From the hints we get later on in the story Tywin seemed quite pleased about events at the Crag, and I very much suspect that what happened behind the scenes was that he told the Westerlings (most notably Jeyne's mother) something very similar to what Qhorin Halfhand told Jon Snow - infiltrate the enemy court and balk at nothing. This could have been fixed via ravens before the fall of the castle, which I suspect is one of the 'important letters' had been sending when Tywin told Tyrion that 'some battles are won with quills rather than swords'. Tywin's target was to find a way to undermine the Stark-Frey alliance, and the best way to do that is to interfere with the betrothal. He'd know the Westerlings had an attractive, unmarried daughter. So Mama Westerling shoved Jeyne into a pressure cooker alongside this handsome young Lord, and stepped back to let teenage hormones work their magic. I'm pretty sure Jeyne was manipulated, but her affection for Robb was genuine all the same. Once the deed was done, then Robb's sense of honour meant he had to do the right thing by the maid he'd deflowered. Bingo, the Frey alliance is shot to pieces before Robb could tie up his breeches... It's very noticeable that the pair didn't conceive a child, despite all the 'fertility' potions Mama Westerling was pouring down Jeyne's neck - that's because they weren't fertility potions at all, but the exact opposite (no doubt learned from Granny Maggy). The presence of a Stark heir would royally screw up the plan hatched with Tywin. And that's pretty much confirmed when Jaime turns up later in the story. We are given plenty of clues that the Westerlings - and Spicers especially - do not pass Grey Wind's sniff test, but love is blind. Cat sees it; Robb does not, he even turns away from his direwolf in favour of his wife. He literally 'forgets himself', not a good sign given that the north remembers. EDIT to add: the Maggy the Frog - Spicer lineage bears some resemblance to the real life incidence of the Woodville women marrying into the English royal family by 'bewitchment' during the Wars of the Roses, due to alleged magical abilities of her mother Jacquetta of Luxembourg, who claimed descent herself from a water goddess. Elizabeth's marriage broke a major alliance and the Earl of Warwick (the Kingmaker) changed sides from York to Lancaster... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowy Tends Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 13 minutes ago, Rufus Snow said: @oakbloodthesap From the hints we get later on in the story Tywin seemed quite pleased about events at the Crag, and I very much suspect that what happened behind the scenes was that he told the Westerlings (most notably Jeyne's mother) I agree, what comes out of the discussion is a trap set up by Tywin… “Jeyne Westerling is her mother’s daughter,” said Lord Tywin, “and Robb Stark is his father's son." “The Crag is not so far from Tarbeck Hall and Castamere,” Tyrion pointed out. “You’d think the Westerlings might have ridden past and seen the lesson there.” etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zandru Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 3 hours ago, kissdbyfire said: Nothing here makes any sense whatsoever, and I'm struggling to understand where is this idea coming from to be honest. Ditto. 1 hour ago, Ferocious Veldt Roarer said: What. The. Fuck?... Concisely put! 1 hour ago, Rufus Snow said: I'm afraid I pretty much disagree with everything you wrote, but will tell you why. Exactly! Rufus has the right of it. If you're going to propose a "what if" scenario, at least make it plausible and use actual textual information. That approach has yielded many intriguing insights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormking902 Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 This OP is actually kind of funny and sad, of all the characters in the story to claim could be a rapist you choose Ned 2.0 lol, its very obvious from the text Jeyne Westerling is deeply in love with her husband which wouldnt happen if she was raped by him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commentator Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 We should all be mindful that this is an international fan site. Many of our friends here are not from English-speaking countries. I have noticed over the years that the membership has gotten broader, in terms of diversity. For the good, I might add. In any case, it seems to me that Robby fell for Jeyne Westerling. Does that mean he took advantage of her? Not necessarily. Does that mean he was pushy and aggressive by our modern standards of behavior? Probably. I don't think it matters in the end, because Robby lost his head over a woman. What really matters is what it says about Robb. He broke his oath to the Freys and proved to them, and to us, that he lacked self-discipline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowy Tends Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 59 minutes ago, Widowmaker 811 said: We should all be mindful that this is an international fan site. Many of our friends here are not from English-speaking countries. I'm sorry but what's your point exactly? There is no possible misunderstanding in the OP attributable to the language. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Mormont Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 I agree with Rufus Snow and the general consensus here. Jeyne's mother on Tywin's instructions urged Jeyne to spend time with and do whatever was needed to comfort Robb. So when an emotional teenage Robb was being comforted after hearing about his brothers...one thing led to another and teenage hormones took over. At this point, Rob's honor and the fact that this is probably the first girl (his age) that he has been with, he was in love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf of the Steppes Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 Blood and bloody ashes......Can we PLEASE get WoW?!? If for nothing else, to slow the tide of these ridiculous OPs. Wondering why there is no quotes or text in this OP?.........Because there's not a single indication or even misinterpreted clue that this is remotely possible. Seven save us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trigger Warning Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 I'd probably wanna bang the young dashing warrior king and I don't even swing that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zandru Posted March 19, 2018 Share Posted March 19, 2018 1 hour ago, Trigger Warning said: I'd probably wanna bang the young dashing warrior king and I don't even swing that way. LoL!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakbloodthesap Posted March 20, 2018 Author Share Posted March 20, 2018 Ok so in short Robb stormed the gates of the crag and toke an arrow the way it is told they ( the westerlings ) surrendered right afterwards so yes that could come with terms and oaths of honorable behavior (sorry i wasn't suggesting that it was a pillaging i use sack as objective a better term would of been the capturing of the crag ) afterwords well Jayne was nursing Robb back to health did word of Theon's betrayal reach the crag. i argue that sadness wouldn't be the emotion Robb would be feeling but one of anger (after all his mother warned him not to set Theon free and Theon in turn betrayed him ) atm it (and trying not to go into fan fiction) wouldn't take much to push Robb over the edge ( her crying could of set him off tbh as well as any number of things she had no control over) in regards to Tywins plot "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink from it" as for "some battles are won with quills rather then swords" tbh this seems to be more of masturbation rather then some master mind plot of Tywin Lannister (keep in mind the noun that sparked this "love" was Theon Greyjoy's betrayal ) also its a catch 22 Robb is honorable lets get him to sleep with a maid to brake his alliance with the freys. yes the love potions were basically moon tea this however brings up another point Jenye westerling descendant of maggy the frog thus schooled in herbs and healing ( we believe ) and thus skilled enough to nurse Robb stark back to health didn't think it strange that non of the "love" potions where working no matter how many times her and Robb tried. 11 hours ago, zandru said: Ditto. Concisely put! Exactly! Rufus has the right of it. If you're going to propose a "what if" scenario, at least make it plausible and use actual textual information. That approach has yielded many intriguing insights. this isn't a what if scenario and there is no textual evidence. its a simple this story doesn't make sense as it is told but if you look at it like this somethings start to make sense 10 hours ago, Stormking902 said: This OP is actually kind of funny and sad, of all the characters in the story to claim could be a rapist you choose Ned 2.0 lol, its very obvious from the text Jeyne Westerling is deeply in love with her husband which wouldnt happen if she was raped by him. Ned being honorable is up for debate as for Jeyne Westerling not falling in love with Robb stark because he raped her. the subplot of Daenery storm-born Targaryen and Khal Drogo. also vice verse with Robb stark falling in love with Jayne Westerling (and yes it is disturbing) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowy Tends Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 51 minutes ago, oakbloodthesap said: Ned being honorable is up for debate No it isn't as for Jayne Westerling not falling in love with Robb stark if he raped her. the subplot of Daeanery storm-born Targayran and Karl Drogo. also vice verse with Robb stark falling in love with Jayne Westerling (and yes it is disturbing) It's Jeyne, Daenerys, Targaryen, Khal (a title, not a first name). And vice versa. To be honest I have no idea what you're trying to say. You might consider using commas, periods, separate paragraphs, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakbloodthesap Posted March 20, 2018 Author Share Posted March 20, 2018 ok not wanting to go to far off topic but what did Ned stark do that is so honorable? or how is he honorable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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