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A clue from GRRM. Could Littlefinger know about fAegon?


Daendrew

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LF using the Targ tapestries to claim Targ loyalty only works if he doesn't know about Varys being behind Aegon. 

LF: "I've been a good loyal Targ dude all along and just couldn't proclaim it publically. See my tapestries?"

Varys: "Horsesh**"

Aegon: "Well I've know Varys a long time and don't know you at all, LF, so...."

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1 minute ago, Lord Lannister said:

The Mountain? No. But his men perhaps. Medieval soldiers loot by nature regardless of what side they're on. Who was the Master of Coin then and thus in charge of processing profits? I could see LF paying a pittance for them out of the crown's coffers for something that might be useful later and tucking them away.

All you are saying is possible, it just seems a bit convoluted. 

The Mountain (and therefore, I'm guessing, his men) didn't return to Kings Landing until after Littlefinger left. It is possible that Lannister soldiers were sending loot back to Kings Landing to flog it, although that doesn't seem very likely. Given the dangers of travel at the time, sending your loot off down the Kingsroad to market seems a bit risky. 

Of course, if GRRM decides that that's where he wants the story to go, then a perfectly plausible explanation would be found.

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Just now, Shouldve Taken The Black said:

All you are saying is possible, it just seems a bit convoluted. 

The Mountain (and therefore, I'm guessing, his men) didn't return to Kings Landing until after Littlefinger left. It is possible that Lannister soldiers were sending loot back to Kings Landing to flog it, although that doesn't seem very likely. Given the dangers of travel at the time, sending your loot off down the Kingsroad to market seems a bit risky. 

Of course, if GRRM decides that that's where he wants the story to go, then a perfectly plausible explanation would be found.

That's all I'm suggesting, a theory that fits the facts even if it stretches in a few places. WIth all the mentions both sets of tapestries get, Martin has to be going somewhere with it. Littlefinger certainly wouldn't bother making a big deal over just Robert's hunting tapestries, I think, unless there was more to it.

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1 minute ago, Lord Lannister said:

WIth all the mentions both sets of tapestries get, Martin has to be going somewhere with it. Littlefinger certainly wouldn't bother making a big deal over just Robert's hunting tapestries, I think, unless there was more to it.

That I definitely agree with, it's definitely going somewhere.

I always thought the anecdote about Darry's tapestries was a warning that the Targaryen supporters were still about in the nobility of Westros. 

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1 minute ago, Shouldve Taken The Black said:

That I definitely agree with, it's definitely going somewhere.

I always thought the anecdote about Darry's tapestries was a warning that the Targaryen supporters were still about in the nobility of Westros. 

Well Viserys believed people were drinking secret toasts to his health. :P Darry was really the only clandestine supporter mentioned, and given the fate of his house and land, I'm not sure that would bode well for the sentiment of a Targaryen restoration. People will do what's in their own interest regarding what side to take, and it's as simple as that. It's why much of the Seven Kingdoms follows an all but known incest bastard with no royal blood.

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7 minutes ago, Lord Lannister said:

Well Viserys believed people were drinking secret toasts to his health. :P Darry was really the only clandestine supporter mentioned, and given the fate of his house and land, I'm not sure that would bode well for the sentiment of a Targaryen restoration.

Tbf, Robert talked about how there were still people who called him Usurper. I wouldn't be surprised if there were a few Darry-like characters dotted about the kingdoms. Given that there's been a lot of turmoil recently, and no-one really likes the Lannisters or Stannis, there may be some nostalgia for the Targaryens.

7 minutes ago, Lord Lannister said:

People will do what's in their own interest regarding what side to take, and it's as simple as that.

Well, a lot of people will, some might do what they think is right. It depends on the people. 

 

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7 minutes ago, Shouldve Taken The Black said:

I always thought the anecdote about Darry's tapestries was a warning that the Targaryen supporters were still about in the nobility of Westros. 

I think it goes further than that with Darry. Before they were reduced to a House of landed knights, their lands included the inn at the crossroads, but the interesting thing is how close their castle is to the ruby ford. It's like half a day's ride IIRC.

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1 minute ago, Widow's Watch said:

Before they were reduced to a House of landed knights

Small point, but I'm pretty certain they're still lords, just much reduced in lands and status.

2 minutes ago, Widow's Watch said:

but the interesting thing is how close their castle is to the ruby ford

What's the relevance of that, do you think?

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Just now, Widow's Watch said:

I think it goes further than that with Darry. Before they were reduced to a House of landed knights, their lands included the inn at the crossroads, but the interesting thing is how close their castle is to the ruby ford. It's like half a day's ride IIRC.

The Targs cut down Rickard and Brandon Stark. Darry was where Lady was killed and Nymeria was set loose. Think you're right...

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12 minutes ago, Shouldve Taken The Black said:

Small point, but I'm pretty certain they're still lords, just much reduced in lands and status.

House Darry lost most of its power, half the lands, just like House Connington. Raymun Darry is called "ser", not "lord", though he/was lord of Darry. In any case, Darry is now overrun with Freys so who knows how much power Mariya Darry will be able to assert with those weasels around.

14 minutes ago, Shouldve Taken The Black said:

What's the relevance of that, do you think?

GRRM said that Rhaegar's body was cremated. Since castle Darry is about half a day's ride from the ruby ford, which could have been part of their lands, then they might have gotten a hold of the body, taken it there to cremate it. Maybe the Darrys have more than the Targaryen tapestries and portraits. The location of Darry becomes really interesting upon rereads.

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3 minutes ago, Widow's Watch said:

House Darry lost most of its power, half the lands, just like House Connington. Raymun Darry is called "ser", not "lord", though he/was lord of Darry. In any case, Darry is now overrun with Freys so who knows how much power Mariya Darry will be able to assert with those weasels around.

Lancel's certainly made a lord when Darry is granted to him, although it may be that that was simply to elevate him, and previous to that, they were landed knights.

8 minutes ago, Widow's Watch said:

GRRM said that Rhaegar's body was cremated. Since castle Darry is about half a day's ride from the ruby ford, which could have been part of their lands, then they might have gotten a hold of the body, taken it there to cremate it. Maybe the Darrys have more than the Targaryen tapestries and portraits. The location of Darry becomes really interesting upon rereads.

That is interesting. 

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It's being saved for the Baratheon comeback!   If the BobKing is the biggest face on the picture, you don't need a lineage chart.  Sit a bearded BobBastard in front of it, and it looks like a mirror image.  In a recreated Robert throneroom.   Which leads to thoughts like Hey, this is the kingliest bastard I've seen all day long.  Maybe I should start thinking of 'em in those terms and take a knee.

The tough part is explaining why anyone would put the reader, the seven kingdoms, and Varys through that.   It would negate all the wondrous 'progress' we've made post Robert.   My early thought was it'd be used to discredit Royce as a Baratheon loyalist so Pete could signal continued loyalty to the throne while removing a local impediment to getting his way.  But whether that makes sense hinges on remembering who Royce is, which I totally don't.

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3 hours ago, Widow's Watch said:

I think it goes further than that with Darry. Before they were reduced to a House of landed knights, their lands included the inn at the crossroads, but the interesting thing is how close their castle is to the ruby ford. It's like half a day's ride IIRC.

There are theories out there linking the brotherhood with a Blackfyre rebellion. 

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21 hours ago, Widow's Watch said:

House Darry lost most of its power, half the lands, just like House Connington. Raymun Darry is called "ser", not "lord", though he/was lord of Darry. In any case, Darry is now overrun with Freys so who knows how much power Mariya Darry will be able to assert with those weasels around.

GRRM said that Rhaegar's body was cremated. Since castle Darry is about half a day's ride from the ruby ford, which could have been part of their lands, then they might have gotten a hold of the body, taken it there to cremate it. Maybe the Darrys have more than the Targaryen tapestries and portraits. The location of Darry becomes really interesting upon rereads.

The other thing about the Darry lands is my favorite Frey, Amerei the Gatehouse. That nickname has a very clear double entendre attached to it, and it is not all about coming in to her castle... well, it is, but not like that. This is going to be rather interesting to read about and I can't wait.

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22 hours ago, Shouldve Taken The Black said:

Lancel's certainly made a lord when Darry is granted to him, although it may be that that was simply to elevate him, and previous to that, they were landed knights.

You have to consider who is giving the castle and the titles to Lancel. These are rewards coming straight from his uncle.

1 hour ago, The Fattest Leech said:

The other thing about the Darry lands is my favorite Frey, Amerei the Gatehouse. That nickname has a very clear double entendre attached to it, and it is not all about coming in to her castle... well, it is, but not like that. This is going to be rather interesting to read about and I can't wait.

That's interesting, although reading Jaime's POV while he's at Darry is kind of pretty hilarious. I wouldn't count the Darrys out just yet.

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20 hours ago, The Mother of The Others said:

 My early thought was it'd be used to discredit Royce as a Baratheon loyalist so Pete could signal continued loyalty to the throne while removing a local impediment to getting his way.  But whether that makes sense hinges on remembering who Royce is, which I totally don't.

Didn’t Petyr give the tapestries to Nestor Royce, who’s an ally of his, not his rival, Yohn Royce?

2 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

The other thing about the Darry lands is my favorite Frey, Amerei the Gatehouse. That nickname has a very clear double entendre attached to it, and it is not all about coming in to her castle... well, it is, but not like that. This is going to be rather interesting to read about and I can't wait.

I’m a big fan of Gatehouse Ami too, but if you’re suggesting her nickname is related to her claim to Darry I don’t really see it. The line of succession to Darry as of the first book was something like Raymun > Lyman > Mariya > Little Walder > Amerei. Little Walder was the legitimate Darry heir right up until his murder towards the end of ADWD. 

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23 hours ago, Lord Lannister said:

Well Viserys believed people were drinking secret toasts to his health. :P Darry was really the only clandestine supporter mentioned, and given the fate of his house and land, I'm not sure that would bode well for the sentiment of a Targaryen restoration.

I think it’s part of a broader foreshadowing that a number of houses may rise for Daenerys or Aegon. We also get Lord Rowan looking “fit to gag” when Tywin mentions Rhaegar’s dead children. Which could bode very interestingly being that Lord Rowan is leading the Tyrell forces to battle Aegon at Storm’s End. I think I smell a defection coming.

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1 hour ago, Jaehaerys Tyrell said:

I think it’s part of a broader foreshadowing that a number of houses may rise for Daenerys or Aegon. We also get Lord Rowan looking “fit to gag” when Tywin mentions Rhaegar’s dead children. Which could bode very interestingly being that Lord Rowan is leading the Tyrell forces to battle Aegon at Storm’s End. I think I smell a defection coming.

The fit to gag was about Tywin who killed Rhaenys and Aegon via Gregor & Co. working with Doran. I think Redwyne is the one to look at here to go to Aegon. Tyrion notes that Illyrio has Redwyne wine from his personal stock and it's a Pentoshi ship which almost whisks the Redwyne twins away before the plot is foiled. When dolling out the spoils of war, Redwyne doesn't ask for anything except taxes to be eased on his higher-quality wines. Maybe he's expecting payment later via Aegon? 

But I do agree that the Rowans warrant a closer look...

ASOS Tyrion III

"Prince Doran comes at my son's invitation," Lord Tywin said calmly, "not only to join in our celebration, but to claim his seat on this council, and the justice Robert denied him for the murder of his sister Elia and her children."

Tyrion watched the faces of the Lords Tyrell, Redwyne, and Rowan, wondering if any of the three would be bold enough to say, "But Lord Tywin, wasn't it you who presented the bodies to Robert, all wrapped up in Lannister cloaks?" None of them did, but it was there on their faces all the same. Redwyne does not give a fig, he thought, but Rowan looks fit to gag.

 

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