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Another Dance of the dragons?


Sea Dragon

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Why do I keep reading posters saying there is going to be another Dance of dragons? Has Martin said this? I can’t believe that dragons would fight each other and certainly not Danaerys and Jon.  

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There's a whole plethora of possible dragon riders that don't involve Dany and would be more likely than Jon. Dance ends with the brute Victarion with a dragonbinding horn just over the horizon from two unclaimed dragons. Euron could be using him to be a sacrificial lamb to get the dragons himself somehow given the nature of that horn. And I doubt he just threw that egg into the sea. Ben Plumm supposedly has Targaryen blood. Quentyn might've pulled it off if he was smarter about it. Melisandre's stone dragon could still be a possibility. Bran or Bloodraven might even be able to warg a dragon. Tyrion could be a rider. There's the possibility the show hints at. All kinds of people with Valyrian blood floating around that cold conceivably get access to a dragon. All of these people have different agendas that could come into conflict with one another.

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Quote

NOVEMBER 22, 2003

CONCERNING THE DANCE OF THE DRAGONS

Hi, short question. Will we find out more about the Dance of the Dragons in future books?

The first dance or the second?

The second will be the subject of a book. The first will be mentioned from time to time, I'm sure.

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Concerning_the_Dance_of_the_Dragons

See? There will be two dances of dragons, and the response implies that the second dance will be a civil war between dragonlords and their beasts similar to the first. 

And we have this foreshadowing from one of the Winds spoiler chapters...

Spoiler
Quote

They were dancing. In my dream. And everywhere the dragons danced the people died.

Arianne I, Winds

At least one of the dragons, and it's rider, will surely fight Drogon and Daenerys, unless Daenerys dies first. 

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1 hour ago, Sea Dragon said:

Why do I keep reading posters saying there is going to be another Dance of dragons? Has Martin said this? I can’t believe that dragons would fight each other and certainly not Danaerys and Jon.  

1: People assume characters other than dany will end up riding the pair that is locked away in Mereen 
2: People assume (f)Aegon will live long enough to be a rival to Dany when she finally reaches westeros, hence the dance of the dragons
3: The thing we shall not mention has an entirely different take on it, and it could play similarly in the books if the author ever finishes the last two. At the current rate of 1 extra year between books, if winds is released this year, dream will be released in 2025 

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20 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Concerning_the_Dance_of_the_Dragons

See? There will be two dances of dragons, and the response implies that the second dance will be a civil war between dragonlords and their beasts similar to the first. 

And we have this foreshadowing from one of the Winds spoiler chapters...

  Reveal hidden contents

Arianne I, Winds

At least one of the dragons, and it's rider, will surely fight Drogon and Daenerys, unless Daenerys dies first. 

With whom do you foresee dueling betwixt each other in this new dance?

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1 hour ago, The Fattest Leech said:

With whom do you foresee dueling betwixt each other in this new dance?

For sure Drogon/Daenerys vs. Rhaegal/Aegon, and I think Viserion/Brown Ben or Tyrion switches sides from black to green and black again. 

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Yeah, Jon and Dany as adversaries or the dragons fighting each other is completely impossible 'cause this series is totally about internal family relationships always being all kumbaya where they link arms and sing about love, peace and harmony...

;) 

And no, Jon and Dany are not the title of the series as A Song of Ice and Fire. No good author would be so inelegant as to require readers to dig out their old algebra text books or their kids' algebra textbooks to work it all out: 1/2 Fire + (1/2 Fire + 1/2 Ice) = 3/4 Fire + 1/4 Ice.

 

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If there wasn't going to be a contemporary in series Dance then there'd never have been a historic dance. ASOIAF history exists primarily to serve the series.

Tyrion/Viserion sits it out or more will have a foot in both camp, its the whole Tywin's 'stay neutral until it is clear who will win' strategy that Tyrion nods along with when Tywin relays it to him. Again, history to serve the series.

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On 3/20/2018 at 0:11 PM, Ckram said:

I found this:

"The second Dance of Dragons does not have to mean Dany's invasion.

Geroge stopped himself short and said he shouldn't say anymore."

(http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Comic_Con_San_Diego_CA_July_20_232/)

Thanks for this link. As conceived by many on the forums, a story of Dany's invasion or a civil war has always seemed like a side story. This quote makes me think my idea of a battle between two people on dragons is more likely.

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2 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

If there wasn't going to be a contemporary in series Dance then there'd never have been a historic dance. ASOIAF history exists primarily to serve the series.

Tyrion/Viserion sits it out or more will have a foot in both camp, its the whole Tywin's 'stay neutral until it is clear who will win' strategy that Tyrion nods along with when Tywin relays it to him. Again, history to serve the series.

And one eye is black and the other us green. 

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1 hour ago, bent branch said:

Thanks for this link. As conceived by many on the forums, a story of Dany's invasion or a civil war has always seemed like a side story. This quote makes me think my idea of a battle between two people on dragons is more likely.

Why not both? 

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3 hours ago, Kandrax said:

Second Dance of dragons?

From Aegon's viewpoint it is "trying to avoid being fucked by aunt's dragons"

You seem to have as much faith as Dany that there are two people out there she can completely trust to ride her other two dragons, for her. Why?

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3 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Why not both? 

GRRM ended both AFFC and ADWD with winter arriving. If it weren't for the big battles removed from ADWD, I think we would have started TWOW with the zombie apocalypse starting. Under those conditions, it seems pointless for Dany to stop and conquer Westeros first when even Stannis got the message he needed to go north. Conquering Westeros after the existential threat from the north has been dealt with seems anti-climatic. Thus, it all seems pointless to me.

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1 hour ago, chrisdaw said:

You seem to have as much faith as Dany that there are two people out there she can completely trust to ride her other two dragons, for her. Why?

If everything we have been told about how dragons work is true (dragons accepting only one rider and riders being able to bond with only one dragon at a time), then Dany has already lost control of the remaining two. We can only wait and speculate about who will claim the last two.

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Rather than speculate who the riders will be, we could run with Aegon is Rhaegal's end rider and Tyrion is Viserion's end rider, and speculate from there, because that's how it is going to go as per a million things lining up and we might get somewhere if we do.

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The SSM @Ckram gave is from 2006, long before the finishing an publication of ADwD, which means long before the revelation that Aegon was (supposedly) still alive and on his way to Westeros.

Dany's conquest of Westeros is not going to be another Dance now, obviously. Aegon will conquer Westeros (or at least the Iron Throne and significant parts of the continent will accept him as their king) and then Dany will have to wrest the Iron Throne from him, very much so as Rhaenyra had with Aegon II.

That war/conflict will become known as the Second Dance of the Dragons.

However, whether dragon warfare and dances (i.e. fights) between individual dragons and their riders will play as prominent a role as they did back during the original Dance (where not only an army of princely and dragonseed dragonriders clashed but riderless and wild dragons fought and died, too) is unclear at that point.

Considering that we have only three rather pitiful dragons at this point I very much doubt that we'll see a lot of dragon warfare in this battle. Dragons might be able to play a role in battles, but fights of dragon vs. dragon should not only be exceedingly rare but completely pointless considering that the three dragonriders we can, at this point, have at the tops would be utter morons if they risked their lives and the lives of their dragons in stupid duels.

There could be circumstances where this kind of thing becomes inevitable - say, if the leaders of two clashing armies happen to be dragonriders - but aside from that it should simply not happen.

The dragons would also be pretty insignificant as weapons to threaten the enemy. Dragons the size of Vhagar, Vermithor, Meleys, and Caraxes literally put fear in the heart of all the people that saw them, but with winter come a dragon like Dragon is going to be laughed out of town if he tries to set fire to, say, KL or Oldtown when the roofs of the houses of the city are covered by a ten feet thick layer of snow.

Unless we get other dragons - see, say, the return of the Cannibal, the hatching of some other dragon eggs, or the procreation of Dany's dragons - dragons are not going to play an important role in the Second Dance of the Dragons. Even less so if Dany's dragons have to live to face the Others/play a role in the grand finale.

The war would then getting the name simply because it would be the second time where two Targaryen pretenders to the Iron Throne of Westeros - one of them male and named Aegon (not the Second but rather the Sixth of That Name) fighting against a female pretender.

The fact that Prince Aegon is likely going to exploit Daenerys' absence and effectively steal the throne from under her nose while she is occupied in the Dothraki Sea, Vaes Dothrak, and wherever else she might be in TWoW would also be a parallel to the First Dance - where Greens around Aegon the Elder exploited the fact that Rhaenyra was away on Dragonstone, and tied to her bed due to the advanced stages of her pregnancy when her father died.

That way it is very likely that Dany will have to face a crowned and anointed King Aegon VI Targaryen when she finally arrives, very much like Rhaenyra had to face a crowned and anointed King Aegon II Targaryen when she finally learned of her father's death.

And the parallels could continue - Rhaenyra grew up expecting to sit the throne and rule as Queen Regnant just as Dany (and we, the readers) grew up (and old) waiting for Daenerys Targaryen to get to Westeros and take the Iron Throne from the enemies of her family. After ASoS it was pretty clear that this shouldn't be that difficult with Tywin, Joffrey, Robb, and all of Robert's rebel buddies dead.

The surprise (or the Dance-like betrayal) is that another Targaryen - Aegon - will capitalize on the family name and reputation becoming the golden boy and savior of mankind Daenerys should have been.

In that sense, Dany's story could resemble Rhaenyra's in quite a bit, at least insofar as what they have to do during this Second Dance - Dany doesn't have any sons to lose, of course, but she might be forced to fight as hard as Rhaenyra did, and she may be forced to go to similar dark places as she (or rather Daemon in her name) went.

Unlike Rhaenyra she is likely going to triumph - and considering that she is one of the heroes she might even be smart enough to end this Dance in a different manner than the first one - but victory may come with a cost. The whole thing may make the final fight against the Others that much harder.

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9 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

Rather than speculate who the riders will be, we could run with Aegon is Rhaegal's end rider and Tyrion is Viserion's end rider, and speculate from there, because that's how it is going to go as per a million things lining up and we might get somewhere if we do.

I suspect that Aegon and Rhaegal will die together, and I agree that Tyrion and/or Brown Ben will ride Viserion, but I have a crackpot notion that Timett son of Timett will pick up the white one's reins after his rider gets what's coming. 

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