What is the thing that comes in the night?

[Rufus Snow]

I found it interesting what Melisandre had to say regarding things that come in the night, namely dreams:

Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Melisandre I

Dawn. Another day is given us, R'hllor be praised. The terrors of the night recede. Melisandre had spent the night in her chair by the fire, as she often did. With Stannis gone, her bed saw little use. She had no time for sleep, with the weight of the world upon her shoulders. And she feared to dream. Sleep is a little death, dreams the whisperings of the Other, who would drag us all into his eternal night. She would sooner sit bathed in the ruddy glow of her red lord's blessed flames, her cheeks flushed by the wash of heat as if by a lover's kisses. Some nights she drowsed, but never for more than an hour. One day, Melisandre prayed, she would not sleep at all. One day she would be free of dreams. Melony, she thought. Lot Seven.

Devan fed fresh logs to the fire until the flames leapt up again, fierce and furious, driving the shadows back into the corners of the room, devouring all her unwanted dreams. The dark recedes again … for a little while. But beyond the Wall, the enemy grows stronger, and should he win the dawn will never come again. She wondered if it had been his face that she had seen, staring out at her from the flames. No. Surely not. His visage would be more frightening than that, cold and black and too terrible for any man to gaze upon and live. The wooden man she had glimpsed, though, and the boy with the wolf's face … they were his servants, surely … his champions, as Stannis was hers.

 

[Fun Guy from Yuggoth]

2 hours ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

"No," Pyat screeched. "No, to me, come to me, to meeeeeee." His face crumbled inward, changing to something pale and wormlike.

His face turned into a weirwood root.  The warlocks were trying to trap Dany in their Essos weirwood network to steal her and her dragons power, just like Bloodraven and the CotF are trying with Bran.  The description of the warlocks in the House of the Undying as ancient and withered beings who live under a stone tree/stone serpent, who subsist on the sap from that tree which gives visions, and want to eat the flesh/drain the life from of one of the main characters to assimilate their powers.  Many enter, but few leave.

They even have a CotF-looking guy "A small dwarf no more than knee high with a snoutish face, garbed in purple and blue livery, is a servant."

The dragons hate the weirwoods, Drogon gnaws angrily on a Weirwood door and tears the Blue Heart apart.  And I think Dany torching the House of the Undying and the Warlocks is foreshadowing what will happen to the Weirwood in Westeros.

[Megorova]

3 hours ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

If nothing else, do you think the thing in the dark following Dany in the House of the Undying is the thing that comes in the night?

Dany's experience in those halls did looked like attack of wights. Something slow and shuffling was following her, and the torches were going out, because of approach of that thing. Looks similar to this:

Quote

He woke suddenly, in cold and dread.

The fire had burned down to smouldering red embers. The air itself seemed frozen, it was so cold. In the corner the garron was whinnying and kicking the logs with her hind legs. Gilly sat beside the fire, hugging her babe. Sam sat up groggy, his breath puffing pale from his open mouth. The longball was dark with shadows, black and blacker. The hair on his arms was standing up.

It’s nothing, he told himself. I’m cold, that’s all.

Then, by the door, one of the shadows moved. A big one.

This is still a dream, Sam prayed. Oh, make it that I’m still asleep, make it a nightmare. He’s dead, he’s dead, I saw him die. “He’s come for the babe,” Gilly wept. “He smells him. A babe fresh-born stinks o’ life. He’s come for the life.”

The huge dark shape stooped under the lintel, into the hall, and shambled toward them. In the dim light of the fire, the shadow became Small Paul.

~

Before he could get out his other knife, the steel knife that every brother carried, the wight’s black hands locked beneath his chins. Paul’s fingers were so cold they seemed to burn. They burrowed deep into the soft flesh of Sam’s throat.

~

The world shrank to two blue stars, a terrible crushing pain, and a cold so fierce that his tears froze over his eyes.

~

The air was so cold that it hurt to breathe

When wights are close, it becomes so cold, that even the fire goes out, or at least burns lesser.

Quote

He remembered turning in a circle, lost, the fear growing inside him as it always did. There were dogs barking and horses trumpeting, but the snow muffled the sounds and made them seem far away. Sam could see nothing beyond three yards, not even the torches burning along the low stone wall that ringed the crown of the hill. Could the torches have gone out?

So they do bring with them cold and darkness.

Thus could be that the thing in the House of the Undying was a wight. And those things from Nan's story also were wights, ex-apprentices of NW, those that were kidnapped by the Others, and then killed, and turned into walking dead - enslaved by Others' magic.

3 hours ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

No one could get as stubborn as Jojen, so they struggled on through the wild, and every day climbed a little higher, and moved a little farther north.

I think that Jojen was either tricked by his greendreams, sent by the Children, to lure him into their trap, together with Bran, or he was possesed by something.

[Prince of the North]

5 hours ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

Haha I shouldn’t have stated as fact my interpretation I suppose! And done a better job explaining where I’m coming from...

I don’t think Coldhands says he is Bran’s monster... I think he was answering the question about the three-eyed-crow. He had already answered who sent him (last greenseer). 

Jojen clearly calls Coldhands Bran’s Monster, but as with most of Jojen’s interpretations, I think he’s making a mistake (or rather a misinterpretation).

I don’t know what if anything Coldhands knows about the three eyed crow (he clearly knows Bloodraven as the last greenseer)... I take this as Coldhands saying the 3eC is “your monster Brandon Stark.”

I agree with you on the first part here.  That conversation/scene is quite confusing, to say the least, but when Bran says "A monster!" they are still talking about the TEC.  But then I don't agree that Jojen clearly calls Coldhands "Bran's monster".  Jojen first says "We go with the ranger" (this is clearly referring to Coldhands) but I think he switches to talking about the TEC again at the end (because I think Bran was talking about the TEC when he said "A monster!" and Coldhands was talking about the TEC when he said "Your monster, Brandon Stark") when he said "We go with Bran's monster, or we die".

And I think it completely makes sense for Bran to accuse the TEC of being "a monster".  Bran is clearly frustrated with all the secrecy, the hardship, the danger, etc.  And how weird is this dream-invading creepy creature anyway?!  Amirite?  The TEC is putting them all through a lot and asking a great deal of them.  And they don't even really know why at that point.

I also think it completely makes sense for Coldhands to say the TEC is "Your monster, Brandon Stark" because we know Brynden Rivers aka Bloodraven aka the TEC has become what he has (i.e. living well past normal lifespan by becoming part tree, etc.) due to desperately needing to linger long enough to meet/guide Bran.       

But anyway, it reads to me that the "monster" being referred to in this conversation is the TEC, not Coldhands.

[LiveFirstDieLater]

13 minutes ago, Prince of the North said:

 

I also think it completely makes sense for Coldhands to say the TEC is "Your monster, Brandon Stark" because we know Brynden Rivers aka Bloodraven aka the TEC has become what he has (i.e. living well past normal lifespan by becoming part tree, etc.) due to desperately needing to linger long enough to meet/guide Bran

Once again I was probably not clear enough... my point is that the 3 eyed crow is not Bloodraven...

In case you care why I came to that conclusion:

 

[Prince of the North]

13 minutes ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

Once again I was probably not clear enough... my point is that the 3 eyed crow is not Bloodraven...

In case you care why I came to that conclusion:

 

Ah, ok.  While I agree that the "monster" in that particular scene that was quoted upthread is the TEC (not Coldhands) I just can't go there with you that the TEC is not Bloodraven

[kissdbyfire]

6 hours ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

Once again I was probably not clear enough... my point is that the 3 eyed crow is not Bloodraven...

In case you care why I came to that conclusion:

 

6 hours ago, Prince of the North said:

Ah, ok.  While I agree that the "monster" in that particular scene that was quoted upthread is the TEC (not Coldhands) I just can't go there with you that the TEC is not Bloodraven

This is an ongoing debate, and it will remain ongoing until we get more info. But yeah, Brynden "Bloodraven" Rivers is the 3EC IMHO. And as far as I can tell (can be wrong for sure) it's not even open to speculation,

 

[LynnS]

13 hours ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

Once again I was probably not clear enough... my point is that the 3 eyed crow is not Bloodraven...

In case you care why I came to that conclusion:

 

I agree.  BR is not the 3EC.  Once again, I think Jon Snow is The Crow and far more invested in saving Bran's life than BR who is more tree than man at this point.

It's Bran's complaint that the crow lied to him and Old Nan's assertion that all crows are liars; followed by this:

Quote

A Clash of Kings - Jon I

"I've always known that Robb would be Lord of Winterfell."

Mormont gave a whistle, and the bird flew to him again and settled on his arm. "A lord's one thing, a king's another." He offered the raven a handful of corn from his pocket. "They will garb your brother Robb in silks, satins, and velvets of a hundred different colors, while you live and die in black ringmail. He will wed some beautiful princess and father sons on her. You'll have no wife, nor will you ever hold a child of your own blood in your arms. Robb will rule, you will serve. Men will call you a crow. Him they'll call Your Grace. Singers will praise every little thing he does, while your greatest deeds all go unsung. Tell me that none of this troubles you, Jon . . . and I'll name you a liar, and know I have the truth of it."

Upon seeing Jon for the first time: Patchface names him:

Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Jon XI

They found Her Grace sewing by the fire, whilst her fool danced about to music only he could hear, the cowbells on his antlers clanging. "The crow, the crow," Patchface cried when he saw Jon. "Under the sea the crows are white as snow, I know, I know, oh, oh, oh." Princess Shireen was curled up in a window seat, her hood drawn up to hide the worst of the greyscale that had disfigured her face.

Bran doesn't call him the 3EC until later.  He refers to him as The Crow.

Jon is motivated to help Robb and would do no less for Bran:

Quote

A Game of Thrones - Jon IX

Tyrion Lannister had claimed that most men would rather deny a hard truth than face it, but Jon was done with denials. He was who he was; Jon Snow, bastard and oathbreaker, motherless, friendless, and damned. For the rest of his life—however long that might be—he would be condemned to be an outsider, the silent man standing in the shadows who dares not speak his true name. Wherever he might go throughout the Seven Kingdoms, he would need to live a lie, lest every man's hand be raised against him. But it made no matter, so long as he lived long enough to take his place by his brother's side and help avenge his father.

He remembered Robb as he had last seen him, standing in the yard with snow melting in his auburn hair. Jon would have to come to him in secret, disguised. He tried to imagine the look on Robb's face when he revealed himself. His brother would shake his head and smile, and he'd say … he'd say …

 

 

 

 

[Nittanian]

On 3/28/2018 at 8:45 PM, kissdbyfire said:

And isn't there, somewhere, a scene where Jon thinks about some tactic that Benjen created, where rangers would shelter in one of the abandoned castles for a few nights? 

ASOS Jon III

Quote

Jon shrugged. "It changes. I've heard that Lord Commander Qorgyle used to send them out every third day from Castle Black to Eastwatch-by-the-Sea, and every second day from Castle Black to the Shadow Tower. The Watch had more men in his day, though. Lord Commander Mormont prefers to vary the number of patrols and the days of their departure, to make it more difficult for anyone to know their comings and goings. And sometimes the Old Bear will even send a larger force to one of the abandoned castles for a fortnight or a moon's turn." His uncle had originated that tactic, Jon knew. Anything to make the enemy unsure.

 

[Megorova]

1 hour ago, LynnS said:

I agree.  BR is not the 3EC.  Once again, I think Jon Snow is The Crow and far more invested in saving Bran's life than BR who is more tree than man at this point.

It's Bran's complaint that the crow lied to him and Old Nan's assertion that all crows are liars; followed by this:

Upon seeing Jon for the first time: Patchface names him:

Bran doesn't call him the 3EC until later.  He refers to him as The Crow.

Jon is motivated to help Robb and would do no less for Bran:

Jon is a crow, because all Watchers are crows, and could even be that he is a 3EC, that's because if he is a dragonseed (son of Rhaegar Targaryen), and he has an ability to see prophetic dragon-dreams, then metaphorically he does have a third eye. Though there's only one thing, that doesn't make sense, if Jon is the 3EC - how did Jon, that doesn't have (at least for now) any sort of magical abilities (aside from warging, and maybe one prophetic dream, in which he was clad in armor of black ice, fighting against Undead Army, and wielding Lightbringer sword), appeared in Bran's dream, and woke him up from his coma, and also was seen in green dreams by Jojen?

Jon knows nothing about stuff, like those other dreamers from Bran's dream, he knows nothing about what's in the heart of winter. Though it is kind of suspicious, that at the time, when Bran had that dream, at that time Jon was also sleeping, and Bran saw him then at The Wall, sleeping in his chamber. So teoretically, that crow from Bran's dream could be Jon, because Jon at that very time was also sleeping, so he could have appeared in Bran's dream, as that 3EC. Though how come, Jon himself isn't aware that he has some sort of magical abilities (aside from warging), and that he's supposedly flying in his dreams?

I have a ridiculous idea that 3EC is Quaithe, and that Quaithe is Shiera Seastar.

In the books it was said that crow is raven's cousin. Brynden Rivers - Bloodraven, then his half-sister Shiera is a crow.

In fiction, when a sorcerer turns into a bird, then usually it's a raven, but if a witch/sorceress is turning into a bird, then usually it's a crow. So could be that 3EC is actually a female. Like crow Morrigan, the phantom queen, or Merlin's lover Morgan, her name in Welsh is associated with the sea (Shiera Seastar).

Quote

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Morrígan

"In Irish mythology, crows are associated with Morrigan, the goddess of war and death. The Morrígan is mainly associated with war and fate, especially with foretelling doom and death in battle.

There have been attempts by some modern authors of fiction to link Morgan le Fay with the Morrígan. Morgan first appears in Geoffrey of Monmouth's Vita Merlini "The Life of Merlin" in the 12th century. In these Arthurian legends, such as Sir Gawain and the Green Knight, Morgan is portrayed as an evil hag whose actions set into motion a bloody trail of events that lead the hero into numerous instances of danger. Morgan is also depicted as a seductress, much like the older legends of the goddess and has numerous sexual encounters with Merlin. The character is frequently depicted of wielding power over others to achieve her own purposes, allowing those actions to play out over time, to either the benefit or detriment of other characters.^[42]

However, while the creators of the literary character of Morgan may have been somewhat inspired by the much older tales of the goddess, the relationship ends there. Scholars such as Rosalind Clark hold that the names are unrelated, the Welsh "Morgan" (Wales being the source of the Matter of Britain) being derived from root words associated with the sea, while the Irish "Morrígan" has its roots either in a word for "terror" or a word for "greatness".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_Gawain_and_the_Green_Knight

So if ASOIAF is partially based on that folklore, then Bloodraven is like Merlin (Coldhands did called Bloodraven a wizard, so maybe it was a clue, connection to Merlin, whose lover Morgan, lured Sir Gawain to set on his journey), Bloodraven's ex-lover Shiera Seastar the 3EC is Morgan, Bran is Sir Gawain, Jojen plagued by his green dreams is Green Knight, and Jojen's sister Meera is Lady Bertilak, the lady of the Green Knight's castle. 

Green Knight appeared in Arthur's court during New Year's feast. Jojen and Meera arrived to Winterfell during Harvest feast. In one hand he was carrying an axe, and a holy bough (tree branch) in the other. And Jojen brought to Winterfell his green dreams, and after his arrival, some people did lost their heads (maester Lewyn and Sir Rodrik).

That story was written by unknown author, dubbed the "Pearl Poet" or "Gawain Poet". Pearl = Gawain = Bran Stark. On Joffrey's wedding gift from Tyrells, a seven-sided wedding chalice, there was a pearl direwolf. Why pearl? - Winterfell is away from the sea. So maybe it's a hint to connection between Bran and Shiera Seastar, who could be the 3EC.

And people used to say that Lord Bloodraven has one thousand eyes and one. Though when exactly people started to say that about him, are we 100% sure that it was only after Battle at Redgrass Field, where Bloodraven lost one of his eyes, or was it even before that? And thus out of those 1001 eyes, three of them maybe were Shiera's. She was obviously helping Bloodraven, among other things with gathering intel, by using dark arts. Dunk asked Egg something like, whether anyone out of highborn ladies that he knows, are dancing with demons, and use dark arts. And Egg said that yes, Shiera Seastar does, and that she also bathes in blood. So this "dancing with demons" is actully a shadow magic. And we do know (sort of) that Shiera indeed was a shadowbinder. In The Mystery Knight, Bloodraven was using shadow magic, and he was wearing guise of Maynard Plumm. Same how Mance was wearing shadow of Rattleshirt. Melisandre gave him a ruby bracelet, in which the shadow was stored. And in The Mystery Knight, Maynard's shadow was in a moonstone brooch. So Shiera was shadowbinder, and user of blood magic. We do know that Quaithe is a shadowbinder, and her mask is laquered with something dark red. My guess is that her mask is actually painted with blood. And I think that when Mirri Maz Duur was studing in Asshai, where she met maester Marwyn, she also met there Quaithe/Shiera Seastar, and from her she learned blood magic and shadowbinding.

Also when Quaithe warned Dany about those, that will come to her, she didn't mentioned maester Marwyn amongst them. Thus maybe Quaithe and Marwyn are associates. I think that Marwyn was that transparrent figure in Dany's fevered dream, when Dany was giving birth to Rhaego. He was warming his hands above blazier, and he said to Dany that Rhaegar was the last dragon, and prior that he assisted Mirri to stop Dany's internal bleeding. Dany saw him as Jorah, but that was because Mirri gave her some sort of potion, probably some kind of opiate, because of which she was half-unconsciousness, she felt less pain, but also she had halucinations, and some parts of what she saw then, wasn't real, and afterwards she forgot what actually happened. So if Quaithe is Shiera Seastar, and she left Westeros many years ago, and went to Asshai, then maester Marwyn is her agent in 7K. So even thought she's in Essos, she's still monitoring what is happening in Westeros. So most likely she does know about what happened with Bloodraven, and she does know about Bran.

If the 3EC is indeed Quaithe/Shiera Seastar, then she, as shadowbinder, and user of blood magic, and dragonseed, and daughter of sorceress Serenei of Lys, could be strong enough to get into Bran's dream, or even to cause Bran to have that dream. She appeared to him in that dream as a 3EC, and she helped him to wake up from his coma. Near the end of that dream, Bran did saw Asshai and the Shadow, and dragons there (maybe those dragons were actually dragonseeds - Shiera Seastar, and maybe some of Blackfyres, not actual dragons). And maybe Quaithe is always wearing mask, because now she has a third eye on her forehead.

(I'm aware that this theory is all sorts of convoluted )

Or maybe Bran himself is the 3EC, maybe that was his subconsciousness.

Quote

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corvus#Cultural_depictions_and_folklore

In Welsh mythology, the god Brân the Blessed – whose name means "crow" or "raven" — is associated with corvids and death; tradition holds that Bran's severed head is buried under the Tower of London, facing France — a possible genesis for the practice of keeping ravens in the Tower, said to protect the fortunes of Britain.

 

[Ghost+Nymeria4Eva]

22 hours ago, By Odin's Beard said:

His face turned into a weirwood root.  The warlocks were trying to trap Dany in their Essos weirwood network to steal her and her dragons power, just like Bloodraven and the CotF are trying with Bran. 

Not at all. This is one of the "gods" the Undying worship, possibly the source of their power. A pale and worm-like god-creature appears in GRRM's other stories as well, In the House of the Worm, and I think Bakkalon or the Pale Child in Seven Times Never Kill Man. This thing Dany sees probably has something to do with the Great Other, the evil god(?) of cold, the ice counterpart to the fiery gods we see. The Undying (not the warlocks, btw, who are human), want Dany's fire of life, sort of like the Others who want to eliminate all warm-blooded things. 

If there's a source of the weirwood network, why not the Bleeding sea in Yi Ti:

Quote

Bleeding Sea (named for the characteristic hue of its deep waters, supposedly a result of a plant that grows only there)

This sounds awfully like the red sap of the weirwood trees. 

[kissdbyfire]

1 hour ago, Nittanian said:

ASOS Jon III

 

That's the one!

 

[LiveFirstDieLater]

12 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

 

This is an ongoing debate, and it will remain ongoing until we get more info. But yeah, Brynden "Bloodraven" Rivers is the 3EC IMHO. And as far as I can tell (can be wrong for sure) it's not even open to speculation,

 

Haha it is ongoing... but I really don’t understand how you can read this:

Quote

 

"Are you the three-eyed crow?" Bran heard himself say. A three-eyed crow should have three eyes. He has only one, and that one red. Bran could feel the eye staring at him, shining like a pool of blood in the torchlight. Where his other eye should have been, a thin white root grew from an empty socket, down his cheek, and into his neck.

"A … crow?" The pale lord's voice was dry. His lips moved slowly, as if they had forgotten how to form words. "Once, aye. Black of garb and black of blood." The clothes he wore were rotten and faded, spotted with moss and eaten through with worms, but once they had been black. "I have been many things, Bran. Now I am as you see me, and now you will understand why I could not come to you … except in dreams. I have watched you for a long time, watched you with a thousand eyes and one. I saw your birth, and that of your lord father before you. I saw your first step, heard your first word, was part of your first dream. I was watching when you fell. And now you are come to me at last, Brandon Stark, though the hour is late."

 

And still think bloodraven is the three eyed crow...

Bran literally asks him straight up... with internal commentary about how it doesn’t make sense... Bloodraven doesn’t even know what he’s talking about and mistakenly believes he’s referring to the Night’s Watch. 

Then he goes on to describe how he was “watching” when Brian fell... and uses a whole bunch of passive verbs to describe his presence in dreams... 

The three eyed crow not only talked to Bran, he pecked his head... a lot.

They even talked in the dream about how the crow has wings and is flying...

I really don’t understand how he could be the three eyed crow and not know it... I’m frankly surprised there is even a debate about how he could be the three eyed crow. It makes no sense to me... besides blaming the tv show (where it was a three eyed raven).

19 hours ago, Prince of the North said:

Ah, ok.  While I agree that the "monster" in that particular scene that was quoted upthread is the TEC (not Coldhands) I just can't go there with you that the TEC is not Bloodraven

Alas I understand many people have made up their minds... 

But I’m not sure how you rationalize Bloodraven not understanding that very straight forward often repeated question.

[LiveFirstDieLater]

20 minutes ago, Ghost+Nymeria4Eva said:

Not at all. This is one of the "gods" the Undying worship, possibly the source of their power. A pale and worm-like god-creature appears in GRRM's other stories as well, In the House of the Worm, and I think Bakkalon or the Pale Child in Seven Times Never Kill Man. This thing Dany sees probably has something to do with the Great Other, the evil god(?) of cold, the ice counterpart to the fiery gods we see. The Undying (not the warlocks, btw, who are human), want Dany's fire of life, sort of like the Others who want to eliminate all warm-blooded things. 

Because the pale wormlike roots of the Weirwoods are literally described as grave worms...

Quote

The way the shadows shifted made it seem as if the walls were moving too. Bran saw great white snakes slithering in and out of the earth around him, and his heart thumped in fear. He wondered if they had blundered into a nest of milk snakes or giant graveworms, soft and pale and squishy. Grave wormshave teeth. 

Hodor saw them too. "Hodor," he whimpered, reluctant to go on. But when the girl child stopped to let them catch her, the torchlight steadied, and Bran realized that the snakes were only white roots like the one he'd hit his head on. "It's weirwood roots," he said. "Remember the heart tree in the godswood, Hodor? The white tree with the red leaves? A tree can't hurt you."

I think the Ebony Trees of the Undying are the same as Weirwoods, just a different color and found in Essos.

The Undying are just like Bloodraven, corpselike husks surviving long past their normal span by sitting in heart tree thrones underneath a grove of Weirwoods.

And the Servitors of the House of the undying are their version of Children of the Forrest. 

The parallels continue and are remarkably consistant...

[Ghost+Nymeria4Eva]

31 minutes ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

Because the pale wormlike roots of the Weirwoods are literally described as grave worms...

Ahhhh....

32 minutes ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

I think the Ebony Trees of the Undying are the same as Weirwoods, just a different color and found in Essos.

Or maybe they are counterparts. One white weirwood door and the other half is ebony, like the door in the House of Black and White. 

34 minutes ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

The Undying are just like Bloodraven, corpselike husks surviving long past their normal span by sitting in heart tree thrones underneath a grove of Weirwoods.

But they are not connected to the trees themselves like Bloodraven. And they seem to live in some sort of temple. 

Anyway, it's a great connection you've spotted. It's like how life and death is portrayed in GRRM's The Glass Flower. One character thinks they are opposites, but the other points out that they are the same. Maybe this is a hint that seemingly opposite ice/fire thing is not opposites at all, but counterparts, two parts of a single whole. 

 

 

 

[Fun Guy from Yuggoth]

1 hour ago, Megorova said:

Or maybe Bran himself is the 3EC, maybe that was his subconsciousness.

Recall the Bran means crow in Welsh, so the 3-eyed-crow is most likely Bran himself from the future/past, and if the 3ec is the thing that comes in the night then that is Bran also. 

The line about 1,000 other dreamers impaled on ice spears made me think of the others who fight with ice weapons.  If Bran is the 3-eyed-crow, and the thing that comes in the night, and he kills dreamers with Ice spears--is Bran the Night King?  Was Bran trying to starve the Weirwoods by killing all the dreamers before they could get assimilated into the network?

[Fun Guy from Yuggoth]

11 minutes ago, Ghost+Nymeria4Eva said:

One character thinks they are opposites, but the other points out that they are the same. Maybe this is a hint that seemingly opposite ice/fire thing is not opposites at all, but counterparts, two parts of a single whole.

I think the weirwoods are playing both sides against each other to stir up conflict. The followers of R'hllor are described in language that evoke the weirwood, fiery hand, burning heart, 1,000 fiery hands (that is how the weirwood is described), red eyes, red clothing, red masks, rubies (weirwood sap). . . And the great other is the weirwood also.  The weirwoods can control fire and ice.

[Prince of the North]

43 minutes ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

Haha it is ongoing... but I really don’t understand how you can read this:

And still think bloodraven is the three eyed crow...

Bran literally asks him straight up... with internal commentary about how it doesn’t make sense... Bloodraven doesn’t even know what he’s talking about and mistakenly believes he’s referring to the Night’s Watch. 

Then he goes on to describe how he was “watching” when Brian fell... and uses a whole bunch of passive verbs to describe his presence in dreams... 

The three eyed crow not only talked to Bran, he pecked his head... a lot.

They even talked in the dream about how the crow has wings and is flying...

I really don’t understand how he could be the three eyed crow and not know it... I’m frankly surprised there is even a debate about how he could be the three eyed crow. It makes no sense to me... besides blaming the tv show (where it was a three eyed raven).

Alas I understand many people have made up their minds... 

But I’m not sure how you rationalize Bloodraven not understanding that very straight forward often repeated question.

Ah, I simply think Bloodraven doesn't dictate, know, or particularly care how he appears to Bran in his dreams.  And, in my opinion, the symbolism of the very name: the Three-Eyed Crow is just too strong and completely obvious.  I mean, how else would a member of the NW (remember, once a member, always a member), also known as "Crows", who has magical abilities (as an overly simplistic description), also known as "opening one's 'third eye'", be symbolically rendered?  I believe the name "the Three-Eyed Crow" was simply a great hint from the author to tell the readers his "real" identity long before it was actually revealed in ADwD. 

[LiveFirstDieLater]

17 minutes ago, Ghost+Nymeria4Eva said:

Ahhhh....

Or maybe they are counterparts. One white weirwood door and the other half is ebony, like the door in the House of Black and White. 

Yes, it’s certainly possible... They clearly aren’t exactly the same... but I do think they are remarkably similar on all but the very surface appearance.

17 minutes ago, Ghost+Nymeria4Eva said:

But they are not connected to the trees themselves like Bloodraven. And they seem to live in some sort of temple. 

And yet the parallels still abound... they sit in thrones not breathing... and they have a giant pulsing heart (hearttree) there with them. The Shade of the Evening always appeared to me to be like the blood of this pulsating heart (like a twisted Eucharist going on), while the Weirwood paste given to Bran is described as bloodlike (as the sap so often is on the faces of the trees).

It’s also complicated by the fact that Dany was tripping face in the Palace of Dust, and we don’t know if everything (or anything) she saw was really there.

Although, I’m inclined to believe the part after Drogon starts burning things is “real”.

I’d be interested to know if there is a room with servitors sitting in thrones as well!?!?

The Undying appear the equivalent of human Greenseers, while the Warlocks are commonly more like Wargs (ghost turtles?) or Greendreamers (like Jojen) or just know tricks of the trade, like the flaming ladder or breathing mud. And both the Old Gods and the Warlocks seem to employ curses on those who displease them.

17 minutes ago, Ghost+Nymeria4Eva said:

Anyway, it's a great connection you've spotted. It's like how life and death is portrayed in GRRM's The Glass Flower. One character thinks they are opposites, but the other points out that they are the same. Maybe this is a hint that seemingly opposite ice/fire thing is not opposites at all, but counterparts, two parts of a single whole. 

I’m a firm believer that most of the dichotomies in the story are there to show that both sides have peril and they “right” way is the middle way. Ice and Fire, Love and Duty, light and dark, chivalry and foolishness, caution and daring, etc and etc.

extremism in any direction is dangerous.

[LynnS]

2 hours ago, Megorova said:

Jon is a crow, because all Watchers are crows, and could even be that he is a 3EC, that's because if he is a dragonseed (son of Rhaegar Targaryen), and he has an ability to see prophetic dragon-dreams, then metaphorically he does have a third eye. Though there's only one thing, that doesn't make sense, if Jon is the 3EC - how did Jon, that doesn't have (at least for now) any sort of magical abilities (aside from warging, and maybe one prophetic dream, in which he was clad in armor of black ice, fighting against Undead Army, and wielding Lightbringer sword), appeared in Bran's dream, and woke him up from his coma, and also was seen in green dreams by Jojen?

Yes, Jojen has green dreams and sees the 3EC pecking at Bran's chains but this doesn't mean the dream is coming from the crow.

Jon may or may not be a dragonseed.  That's speculation.  I'm giving you text that points to Jon as the 3EC.  All members of the Watch are crows; but Jon is THE crow.  Patchface points him out and calls him thus.  

Jon's third eye has been opened or partially opened for some time.  He was able to hear Ghost before he saw him.  A mute animal, I might add and he's been having recurring dreams of the crypts for a long time.

Jon has power within him according to Melisandre; likely the power of king's blood whomever you think his parents are likely to be.  He also has the untested ability to access the power of the Wall.  Jon is a warg and his power have not yet been fully awakened.  So I wouldn't dismiss him as the 3EC.

IF the 3EC is a woman; then possibly Quaithe, but she is far more relevant to Dany's story at this point and I don't see a connection to Shierra Seastar or the old gods.