Sam's Secret

[Chris Mormont]

Reading Feast for the 4th or 5th time, and I started thinking.

Sam leaves Castle Black on his way to the Citadel carrying with him a very big secret, he knows Bran is alive and beyond the wall.  While I understand his reasoning for not telling Jon before he leaves, he also knows the perils he faces on this journey.  I wondered why he didn't leave Jon with a letter or other communication which he asks Jon to swear not to open until Sam's death, with this information.  This information could come in very handy should Bran return years later to claim WF.

Also I don't recall the full conversation, but did Bran mention Rickon to Sam, and if not, was it on purpose?  Their interaction in the castle before Bran goes through the gate is short, and actually seemed rushed.  But I have always wondered if there were things said "off-camera".

[LynnS]

34 minutes ago, Chris Mormont said:

Reading Feast for the 4th or 5th time, and I started thinking.

Sam leaves Castle Black on his way to the Citadel carrying with him a very big secret, he knows Bran is alive and beyond the wall.  While I understand his reasoning for not telling Jon before he leaves, he also knows the perils he faces on this journey.  I wondered why he didn't leave Jon with a letter or other communication which he asks Jon to swear not to open until Sam's death, with this information.  This information could come in very handy should Bran return years later to claim WF.

Also I don't recall the full conversation, but did Bran mention Rickon to Sam, and if not, was it on purpose?  Their interaction in the castle before Bran goes through the gate is short, and actually seemed rushed.  But I have always wondered if there were things said "off-camera".

I think Sam's lips have literally been sealed by Coldhands when he takes an oath three times never to speak of seeing Bran alive.  He takes the oath to Bran, Jojen and Coldhands for the life that Sam owes CH (Himself, Gilly, the baby).

Further, he wants to tell Jon but he seems to be operating under some kind of mind lock.  He can't tell anyone.  

[Lucius Lovejoy]

I don't think Bran is leaving that tree, and if he does the Lord of Winterfell is whoever King Stannis pleases (until Daenerys conquers everything at least) so it is sort of a moot point.

[Dorian Martell's son]

1 hour ago, Chris Mormont said:

But I have always wondered if there were things said "off-camera".

Sam was told by Bran and his undead ranger traveling companion that his silence was necessary 

[LiveFirstDieLater]

19 minutes ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

Sam was told by Bran and his undead ranger traveling companion that his silence was necessary 

I think you mean Coldhands said they didn’t want anyone disturbing Bran’s grave...

Quote

Three times he had sworn to keep the secret; once to Bran himself, once to that strange boy Jojen Reed, and last of all to Coldhands. "The world believes the boy is dead," his rescuer had said as they parted. "Let his bones lie undisturbed. We want no seekers coming after us. Swear it, Samwell of the Night's Watch. Swear it for the life you owe me."

“We” don’t want seekers wandering the cold north to find the children and end the long night, like that last hero did, now do “we”.

[Dorian Martell's son]

1 hour ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

I think you mean Coldhands said they didn’t want anyone disturbing Bran’s grave...

“We” don’t want seekers wandering the cold north to find the children and end the long night, like that last hero did, now do “we”.

Yes, Sam's undead ranger companion said it was necessary 

[Son of Man]

Maybe Sam is smart enough to have the right priority.  Jon's feelings and sentiments are not important in the bigger scheme of things.  Sam made the decision to serve the needs of the greater good instead of serving the needs of Jon, to whom such things should no longer matter. 

[zandru]

Also, Sam didn't get much advance notice that he was leaving. "Stuff your smallclothes into a bag - you leave at dawn" (approximately) Lord Commander Snow told him. Sam was already in a panic, having seen Gilly leaving the LC's office in tears, and being told he'd have to go to Oldtown and cut up dead bodies and become a maester and wear the chain about his neck had him all worked up, and although Samwell is smart and can think deeply, it takes him awhile. He may have kicked himself innumerable times on the long journey that he didn't at least leave a note for Jon. Simultaneously, he would have worried that if he had, would it have fallen into the wrong hands? If Jon read it prematurely, would it have caused him to send out search parties and major rangings? Was Sam thus right to have forgotten?

Sam is one of the class of people who are always questioning their decisions and motives, like Jon Snow, Daenerys Targaryen, Brienne Tarth, Arya Stark... Unlike these others, Sam isn't as good at getting on with it and taking SOME action.

[Haus Berlin]

Given the unconventional nature of Jon, such a letter would have been opened. And now that he is dead some people would have been tempted to open any letter.

I never really thought about Sam's oath, so thanks for bringing this up, dear @Chris Mormont. What does Sam owe Coldhands? I can't remember.

[Lost Melnibonean]

On 3/26/2018 at 2:43 PM, LynnS said:

I think Sam's lips have literally been sealed by Coldhands when he takes an oath three times never to speak of seeing Bran alive.  He takes the oath to Bran, Jojen and Coldhands for the life that Sam owes CH (Himself, Gilly, the baby).

Further, he wants to tell Jon but he seems to be operating under some kind of mind lock.  He can't tell anyone.  

That's an interesting idea. I am not buying it, but I like it. 

[Lost Melnibonean]

On 3/26/2018 at 3:54 PM, LiveFirstDieLater said:

I think you mean Coldhands said they didn’t want anyone disturbing Bran’s grave...

“We” don’t want seekers wandering the cold north to find the children and end the long night, like that last hero did, now do “we”.

Man, that's dark. 

[LynnS]

2 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

That's an interesting idea. I am not buying it, but I like it. 

Let me expand on that thought.

Consider what Melisandre says about the power of the word at the Wall:

Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Melisandre I

The carved chest that she had brought across the narrow sea was more than three-quarters empty now. And while Melisandre had the knowledge to make more powders, she lacked many rare ingredients. My spells should suffice. She was stronger at the Wall, stronger even than in Asshai. Her every word and gesture was more potent, and she could do things that she had never done before. Such shadows as I bring forth here will be terrible, and no creature of the dark will stand before them. With such sorceries at her command, she should soon have no more need of the feeble tricks of alchemists and pyromancers.

A demonstration of the power of the word:

Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Melisandre I

Melisandre touched the ruby at her neck and spoke a word.

The sound echoed queerly from the corners of the room and twisted like a worm inside their ears. The wildling heard one word, the crow another. Neither was the word that left her lips. The ruby on the wildling's wrist darkened, and the wisps of light and shadow around him writhed and faded.

Sam swears some kind of vow to a greenseer, a green dreamer and a potential green man at the Wall; in a place built with sorcery (the Wall, the Night Fort and the Black Gate).  The vow itself is given in the life for death exchange of the Faceless Men.  it's a vow given to a dead man among other things.  Brienne tells us that the most binding vow of all is the one that is given to the dead.

Sam is also carrying the strange horn, another magical device.  Perhaps the horn that the Night King used to bind his brothers to his will.

Essentially, this is what has happened to Sam.  He has made a powerful oath in the presence of magic and his will is bound.  He is incapable of speaking of Bran.  This is what I mean by literally sealing Sam's lips.  It is done with the power of the word.

Edit:  Going back to Melisandre and the word that twists in the ear or ear worm;  here is Sam's earworm:
 

Quote

A Feast for Crows - Samwell II

"Jon would never. Lord Snow did. Sometimes there is no happy choice, Sam, only one less grievous than the others."

No happy choice. Sam thought of all the trials that he and Gilly suffered, Craster's Keep and the death of the Old Bear, snow and ice and freezing winds, days and days and days of walking, the wights at Whitetree, Coldhands and the tree of ravens, the Wall, the Wall, the Wall, the Black Gate beneath the earth. What had it all been for? No happy choices and no happy endings.

The words catch in his throat, a physical reaction as he is about to blurt them out:

Quote

A Feast for Crows - Samwell I

Bran's not dead, Sam wanted to say. He's gone beyond the Wall with Coldhands. The words caught in his throat. I swore I would not tell. "You haven't signed the letter."

 

[Lost Melnibonean]

1 hour ago, LynnS said:

Let me expand on that thought.

Consider what Melisandre says about the power of the word at the Wall:

A demonstration of the power of the word:

Sam swears some kind of vow to a greenseer, a green dreamer and a potential green man at the Wall; in a place built with sorcery (the Wall, the Night Fort and the Black Gate).  The vow itself is given in the life for death exchange of the Faceless Men.  it's a vow given to a dead man among other things.  Brienne tells us that the most binding vow of all is the one that is given to the dead.

Sam is also carrying the strange horn, another magical device.  Perhaps the horn that the Night King used to bind his brothers to his will.

Essentially, this is what has happened to Sam.  He has made a powerful oath in the presence of magic and his will is bound.  He is incapable of speaking of Bran.  This is what I mean by literally sealing Sam's lips.  It is done with the power of the word.

Edit:  Going back to Melisandre and the word that twists in the ear or ear worm;  here is Sam's earworm:
 

The words catch in his throat, a physical reaction as he is about to blurt them out:

 

I would go so far as to accept that Samwell might be cursed if he broke his vow, but I am not convinced that he is prevented from doing so beforehand by some voodoo. Still, you make a very good argument. I should not be surprised if you turn out to be right. 

[Dorian Martell's son]

On 3/26/2018 at 0:54 PM, LiveFirstDieLater said:

I think you mean Coldhands said they didn’t want anyone disturbing Bran’s grave...

“We” don’t want seekers wandering the cold north to find the children and end the long night, like that last hero did, now do “we”.

Or, they don't want anyone south of the wall going north to look for bran because he is going to merge with a tree in a cave and never leave 

[Light a wight tonight]

42 minutes ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

Or, they don't want anyone south of the wall going north to look for bran because he is going to merge with a tree in a cave and never leave 

That's Bloodraven's plan, anyhow. Plans have a way of changing according to circumstances.

[Chris Mormont]

3 hours ago, LynnS said:

Essentially, this is what has happened to Sam.  He has made a powerful oath in the presence of magic and his will is bound.  He is incapable of speaking of Bran.  This is what I mean by literally sealing Sam's lips.  It is done with the power of the word.

I never considered that some "magical" influence prevented Sam from telling Jon. 

 

3 hours ago, LynnS said:

Bran's not dead, Sam wanted to say. He's gone beyond the Wall with Coldhands. The words caught in his throat. I swore I would not tell.

I just assumed that this was part of Sam's internal struggle to try and determine what was the right thing to do.  The fact that he was thinking about it right before he left, made me wonder why he hadn't arranged for a contingency plan in the event he died on the journey.

[LynnS]

4 minutes ago, Chris Mormont said:

I never considered that some "magical" influence prevented Sam from telling Jon.

I just assumed that this was part of Sam's internal struggle to try and determine what was the right thing to do.  The fact that he was thinking about it right before he left, made me wonder why he hadn't arranged for a contingency plan in the event he died on the journey.

I think it's possible since Melisandre talks about the power of the word and Sam's earworm is included in his thoughts about Bran.  The other possibility is that there is a certain subconcious manipulation that Melisandre uses that is akin to hypnosis.  I doubt that Stannis has seen anything in the fires; but he may have seen whatever Melisandre 'suggested' that he see.  Compelling behavior with a word is a kind of magician's trick for hypnotists.

But we do see something of mind manipuation with Bran when the 3EC suppresses his memory of the Golden Man.  

Sam is reminded of his oath but also seems incapable of actually speaking them.  They catch in his throat.  If he actually spoke them, I wonder if he would choke on them.  LOL!

Definition of throat-catching in US English - Causing the breath or voice to seem to catch in the throat; producing a sensation of tightness or pressure in the throat.

[Rondo]

On 3/26/2018 at 7:03 PM, zandru said:

If Jon read it prematurely, would it have caused him to send out search parties and major rangings? Was Sam thus right to have forgotten?

Jon becomes unreliable where the interests of the Starks conflict with what's good for everybody else.  Samwell made a good decision to keep that secret from his conflicted friend.  The watch is far more important than the Starks.