Matter-of-fact Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 What if Robert had made the blackfish hand instead of eddard stark?how different would his term as hand have been from Starks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 He'd say no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormking902 Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 7 hours ago, Lord Lannister said: He'd say no. This lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Mac Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 8 hours ago, Lord Lannister said: He'd say no. Based on what? Jon Arryn asked him to serve as his Knight of the Gate after Robert's Rebellion and he accepted serving for almost two decades and he accepted when Robb made him Warden of the Southern Marshes. Serving as Hand is a greater honour than those two positions, why would he say no? His adult life has been spent in service, 9 hours ago, Matter-of-fact said: What if Robert had made the blackfish hand instead of eddard stark?how different would his term as hand have been from Starks? Hugely different. Had Ned not been offered the roll Robert would not have brought his entire court to Winterfell so Bran would never have been pushed or later had an attempt on his life, there would be Tyrion arrest in the Riverlands ( and given that he has spent the last 15 years with Lysa is probably not going to beleive her claims about Jon as easily as Cat did). The Blackfish can actually spend his term as Hand governing rather than playing amateur detective and given his relationship with the teenage Robb and his own nephew and nieces when they were teenagers he may well be the positive influence that was Joffey lacked from Robert, Cersei and his uncles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 58 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said: Based on what? Jon Arryn asked him to serve as his Knight of the Gate after Robert's Rebellion and he accepted serving for almost two decades and he accepted when Robb made him Warden of the Southern Marshes. Serving as Hand is a greater honour than those two positions, why would he say no? His adult life has been spent in service, Based on Family, Duty, Honor. Serving as knight of the gate, he was protecting his niece with the added benefit of it getting him away from his older brother. He accepted Robb's title because it protected his family's home during a time of war, and Robb was his own blood. Robert Baratheon was never his own blood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Mac Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 29 minutes ago, Lord Lannister said: Based on Family, Duty, Honor. Serving as knight of the gate, he was protecting his niece with the added benefit of it getting him away from his older brother. He accepted Robb's title because it protected his family's home during a time of war, and Robb was his own blood. Robert Baratheon was never his own blood. What bigger duty or honour could there be than serving as Hand of the King? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 9 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said: What bigger duty or honour could there be than serving as Hand of the King? What's the first word in that motto? It always comes first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ResidentHi11 Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 Family>Duty>Honor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Mac Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 1 hour ago, Lord Lannister said: What's the first word in that motto? It always comes first. How would serving the King be bad for his family? Being Hand brings honour and influence to House Tully and he'd be following in the footsteps of at least one ancestor (Edmyn was one of the first Hands). And of course you are taking House words far to literal, as if that motto is the only thing they are allowed to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 2 hours ago, Bernie Mac said: What bigger duty or honour could there be than serving as Hand of the King? Because more often than not you wind up running the realm, judging by what happened with Robert being apathetic and all. 1 hour ago, ResidentHi11 said: Family>Duty>Honor Tell that to Catelyn. She doesn’t exactly embody the ideal. Neither does Hoster, as shown by his forcing Lysa to take moon tea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 33 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said: How would serving the King be bad for his family? Being Hand brings honour and influence to House Tully and he'd be following in the footsteps of at least one ancestor (Edmyn was one of the first Hands). And of course you are taking House words far to literal, as if that motto is the only thing they are allowed to do. No but it shows the core of Brynden's value system. Sure he has his own set of wants and desires, and they've conflicted with his family's in the past. What does he do? He finds a way to serve a member of his family while removing himself from Hooster's demands of marriage by serving Lysa as Knight of the Gate. Would the Handship indirectly benefit House Tully? Sure. But he'd hate it. Just picture him having to deal with Littlefinger, Pycelle and Varys on a daily basis. Not to mention Hooster badgering him to marry was bad enough, you think the single Hand of the King wouldn't be pressured politically to make a union? If you're determined to think that the Blackfish would accept the post, by all means make your case, but it's not something I'd see him willingly accepting outside of an active war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormking902 Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 3 hours ago, Bernie Mac said: What bigger duty or honour could there be than serving as Hand of the King? It has nothing to do with honour, BF served Lysa his neice because he wanted to protect her like he has her whole life and accepted Robbs offer because Robb is his nephew and again he wanted to protect him. BF puts his family first and Robert isnt his family so turning down an offer of hand to be closer to his family seems likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Mac Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 1 hour ago, Stormking902 said: It has nothing to do with honour, BF served Lysa his neice because he wanted to protect her like he has her whole life No, he took a position at the Gates of the Moon because he had fallen out with his brother, who had disowned him over refusing to serve the head of his families wishes and marry. Had he been so devoted to family he would have remarried so there would be another Tully alliance and more Tully's other than his older brother and his young nephew. He also, given that Lysa was not only perfectly safe but resided at Kings Landing, would have returned home for his sister in-law's funeral and helped his family were he was actually needed. Instead he stayed away from Riverrun. "Each time I ride out, I wonder if I shall find him alive or dead on my return." Despite their quarrels, there was a deep bond between her father and the brother he had once disowned. And Lysa resided at Kings Landing,not the Eyrie. Marrying the Hand of the King would mean Brynden would not only not be needed to protect her but would be too far away to do so. Ned frowned. "Would that I could. Lady Arryn took her household back to the Eyrie." Lysa had done him no favor in that regard. All those who had stood closest to her husband had gone with her when she fled: Jon's maester, his steward, the captain of his guard, his knights and retainers. And of course it is not like he would have even been close to Lysa had he stayed as the Knight of the (Bloody) Gate as it is not part of the Eyrie, it would be like Jaime taking a position at Duskendale to protect Cersei. The closer position to the Eyrie would be the Head of the Household guards or even the Keeper of the Gates of the Moon, but Blackfish's position was at the Bloody Gate is about 100 miles away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormking902 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 8 hours ago, Bernie Mac said: No, he took a position at the Gates of the Moon because he had fallen out with his brother, who had disowned him over refusing to serve the head of his families wishes and marry. Had he been so devoted to family he would have remarried so there would be another Tully alliance and more Tully's other than his older brother and his young nephew. He also, given that Lysa was not only perfectly safe but resided at Kings Landing, would have returned home for his sister in-law's funeral and helped his family were he was actually needed. Instead he stayed away from Riverrun. "Each time I ride out, I wonder if I shall find him alive or dead on my return." Despite their quarrels, there was a deep bond between her father and the brother he had once disowned. And Lysa resided at Kings Landing,not the Eyrie. Marrying the Hand of the King would mean Brynden would not only not be needed to protect her but would be too far away to do so. Ned frowned. "Would that I could. Lady Arryn took her household back to the Eyrie." Lysa had done him no favor in that regard. All those who had stood closest to her husband had gone with her when she fled: Jon's maester, his steward, the captain of his guard, his knights and retainers. And of course it is not like he would have even been close to Lysa had he stayed as the Knight of the (Bloody) Gate as it is not part of the Eyrie, it would be like Jaime taking a position at Duskendale to protect Cersei. The closer position to the Eyrie would be the Head of the Household guards or even the Keeper of the Gates of the Moon, but Blackfish's position was at the Bloody Gate is about 100 miles away. I agree the main reason was to get away from his brother but by becoming Knight of the Gates of the moon he still is protecting Lysa since he is the first line of defense if you wish to attack the Vale by land, also by becomming intrenched in Vale politics he can warn of any dangers he senses from the lords of the Vale. Jon Arryn is old and could die at anytime and Robert Arryn is a sick boy who no-one wants to rule the Vale by the BF being in the Vale and in such an important position he can help secure sweet Robins birth right. He only left when Cat and Robb needed him in a full blown WAR, you say if he wanted to protect Lysa he would be better fit in KL where she was living I have to disagree since there are power moves in place in the Vale which goes against Lysa and Robins interests. In KL Lysa is protected VERY well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernie Mac Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 2 hours ago, Stormking902 said: I agree the main reason was to get away from his brother but by becoming Knight of the Gates of the moon he still is protecting Lysa since he is the first line of defense if you wish to attack the Vale by land, The Bloody gate defends the Vale from the Riverlands, he did not accept that position because he thought Lysa, who resided in Kings Landing with her husband, was in danger of a land attack. And the Hand of the King commands the armies of the King, he could do better to defend both his nieces and nephew with that position than he could ever do as the Knight of the Gate. 2 hours ago, Stormking902 said: also by becomming intrenched in Vale politics he can warn of any dangers he senses from the lords of the Vale. Except it was not really a political position. Nestor Royce was the one was had the political roll as the High Steward of the Vale while Lord Arryn and his wife were in Kings Landing. Brynden was not able to convince anyone to come with him to help defend the Tully lands, he had little political standing in the Vale. And once again, being Hand of the King offers his niece more protection than being the Knight of the Gate. 2 hours ago, Stormking902 said: Jon Arryn is old and could die at anytime and Robert Arryn is a sick boy who no-one wants to rule Robin was not even born when Brynden took that position, lets not pretend that it had anything to do with him taking it. 2 hours ago, Stormking902 said: the Vale by the BF being in the Vale and in such an important position he can help secure sweet Robins birth right. You don't think the Hand of the King would have more sway than in that matter than the Knight of the Gate? Tell me, how much influence does Lady Waynwood's second youngest son have in the matter? 2 hours ago, Stormking902 said: He only left when Cat and Robb needed him in a full blown WAR, Had Brydnen been Hand there would have been no war. All the Tully's would have been better served with him as Hand. His influence as Hand is significantly larger than that of the Knight of the Gate, who's function is to make the passage way safe for travelling merchants from the Mountain Clans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varysblackfyre321 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 23 hours ago, Angel Eyes said: Because more often than not you wind up running the realm, judging by what happened with Robert being apathetic and all. Tell that to Catelyn. She doesn’t exactly embody the ideal. Neither does Hoster, as shown by his forcing Lysa to take moon tea. What are you talking about?Catelyn shows time and time again to live up to her house's words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 Tell that to Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rondo Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 On 3/27/2018 at 0:39 AM, Matter-of-fact said: What if Robert had made the blackfish hand instead of eddard stark?how different would his term as hand have been from Starks? Hard to guess without looking at Brynden's resume. Eddard had experience managing a castle at least. Brynden managed a gate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varysblackfyre321 Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 4 hours ago, Angel Eyes said: Tell that to Jon. Far as she's aware the boy isn't kin to her, Jon is her husband's bastard and very much in her a potential threat to her offspring. She owes the boy nothing quite frankly. And at most she was cold to him, hell she didn't even try poisoning her children's minds with tales of how evil bastards are and how they should be wary of Jon when he and the Stark children were growing up in Winterfell. She lives up to her family's creed perfectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varysblackfyre321 Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 15 hours ago, Bernie Mac said: en been Hand there would have been no war. All the Tully's would have been better served with him as Hand. His influence as Hand is significantly larger than that of the Knight of the Gate, who's function is to make the passage way safe for travelling merchants from the Mountain Clans. How do you figure there not being a war? Isn't that a little presumptuous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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