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Your Top 3 "to murder" list


TMIFairy

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8 hours ago, Nowy Tends said:

I'm sorry but this "14 years old Jon Bond-Snow and his Green Berets crannogmen leaded by Howland Reed, the guy who got his ass kicked by three spotty squires" scenario is laughable…

Listen. If you're not absolutely certain that if Robb, Brandon and Rickon died young, then Jon would have freed Ned with the help of magic swamp ninjas, then you haven't been reading the books closely enough.

 

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To stop Wars, hmmm, then : 

1. Petyr Baelish - He is really the person who caused the most trouble for both Jon Arryn and Eddard Stark. 

2. Cersei Lannister - I actually don't dislike Cersei that much, but her removal would probably mean Robert is still alive and if Petyr is dead as well, Jon Arryn could freely tell Robert that Cersei's babies were not his own. 

3. I guess to end chances of war, it would have to be Varys. I like Varys, but I think he has to die for peace in Westeros. 

If I was making this list with my own bias however, I would change it to : 

1. Still Petyr. I really hate that guy.

2. Robert Baratheon - But after he disinherits Joffrey if possible. 

3. Stannis Baratheon. Renly would make the best King, so my plan is basically to get the Hills (or would they be Waters, Joffrey, Myrcella, and Tommen) disinherited, then kill off Robert and Stannis who would be horrible Kings and put either Renly or Shireen (with Renly as her hand) on the throne.

Both of these plans might work temporarily, but I think long term they will still lead to war. Does Daenerys still show up? What about fAegon? I think it is actually impossible with just three kills to avoid war all together. After all even if I kill every belligerent, the Others are still coming. 

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16 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:
16 hours ago, Megorova said:

His role was to make books longer, that's all.

:huh:

While Jon was stuck at The Wall, and while Dany in Essos hatched her dragons, and they were growing up, something had to be happening in 7K. So plot there was carried on by Robb's war, Stannis' war. But those two characters didn't accomplished anything. Thus their purpose was to make time, that was needed for actually important characters (Jon, Dany and her dragons) to develop.

16 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Finish this story then after they escapè Kings Landing.

I already did, a few posts above (probably in my second post in this thread). Though I can add a few more details/clarifications.

If the main point of confrontation against Lannisters, was to save Ned, and then assure, that Lannisters will be punished, for what they did, and that they won't be a treat to Ned's family anymore, then one of most effective ways for that could be this:

Immediately after Ned's people at Winterfell recieved news about what happened, Cat should have ordered for northern troops to prepare for the battle. Northerners and Ironborn. While they were still all gathering to Winterfell, and preparing for the war, and while Lannisters' attention was drawn by those preparations, Jon could have went to The Neck, and together with a few crannogmen went to KL.

After Jon and Howland freed Ned from the dungeons, they sailed to Dragonstone. On the same boat (or ship) which they brought from White Harbor. If I remember correctly, something similar was already done during Robert's Rebellion, either by Robert or Ned, when he was escaping from KL.

Shortly after saving Ned, they could have sent a raven to Winterfell (they could have taken a few ravens with them, and sent one, when Ned was with them, like Sam did during Great Ranging), with Ned's order for northern troops to march south, towards King's Landing. On the way there, they would have been joined by troops of Riverlands.

Westerlands could have been attacked from the sea side by Ironborn and by fleet of the Arbor, and from land side by troops of Tyrells and other Reachmen. Even prior Jon went to retrieve Ned, Cat should have sent a raven to Dorne, and informed them, that Northerners and Stormlanders and Riverlanders are going to attack Lannisters. Thus Dornishmen would have also joined them, because Doran and Oberyn were waiting for many years, to pay back to Lannisters. 

So Westerlands were attacked from the sea and the land, and cut off from the rest of Westeros, and thus Tywin would have been unable to give aid to Cersei in KL. And KL could have been attacked from the sea by fleet of White Harbor, and Baratheon's fleet stationed at Dragonstone, and fleet of Martells, and from the land by troops of Stormlanders, Dornishmen, Knights of The Vale, Riverlanders and Northerners.

Lannisters would have been obliterated in a matter of days. Robb didn't managed to save Ned, nor win in a war against Lannisters, because he was preparing too long. Because he wanted to do everything by himself, and also he didn't wanted to risk, and he wanted to personally lead northern troops, not to go on some secret mission to retreive Ned. He wanted to gain fame and glory, and respect, and be seen by northern bannermen as a capable commander. Thus he didn't tried any other options to save Ned in some other way. He wanted to be a hero, a leader, commander of troops, not some guy that secretly went to KL, released Ned, and after that it was Ned, who would have led attack against their enemies, not Robb. But that option was not what Robb wanted.

9 hours ago, Shouldve Taken The Black said:

This is why I'm suggesting your argument is fanfic. You're simply making up an alternative story, which includes medieval swamp ninjas. Which is fine, but to say all this would have happened with utter certainty is bizarre.

I'm not saying it with utter certainty. It's just what could have happened. One of possible options, how this situation with Ned's imprisonment, and conflict with Lannisters, could have been resolved in some other manner, not like it happened in the actual story.

Also crannogmen are sort of like ninjas, I'm not making up this part. They are short, like Japanese. They fight using trap-nets, throw knives (like Shurikens), three pronged spears (in martial arts (in Corea) this kind of weapon is called Dang pa), and poisoned arrows. "Mudmen are sneaks, they won't fight like decent folks, they skulk and use poison arrows. You never see them, but they see you."

I'm not the first person who said that crannogmen are like ninjas.

9 hours ago, Shouldve Taken The Black said:

That's pretty much the definition of fanfic mate. You can speculate about what would happen if this or that was different in the books, but to launch into an alternative scenario with utter certainty, which includes such lines as: "Jon would have went to KL and with help of cranogmen (that are sort of like medieval ninjas, and they also can use magic) saved Ned, and brought him to Dragonstone." is just writing your own story. 

Ok. :rolleyes:

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37 minutes ago, Megorova said:

I already did, a few posts above (probably in my second post in this thread). Though I can add a few more details/clarifications.

This is the exact definition of fan fiction. 

 

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@Megorova There are so many issues with the scenario you suggest that I don't even know where to begin. I'd try to but I'm a bit busy just now. I'll get back to it at some point. But for now, I'll just point out a few things. Why would the Stormlands and Reach help Ned? They would follow Renly, just like in canon. Why would the Vale get involved? They didn't in canon and there's no reason for Lysa to have changed in your scenario. Why would the Ironborn help? Balon didn't attack the West in canon, why would he now? So you've basically got the War of Four Kings, instead of Five Kings.

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55 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

 

This is the exact definition of fan fiction. 

 

Ok.

But what is the point of this thread? - " In order to bring peace, prosperity and progress to the Seven Kingdoms, for the good of the children, and having all the knowledge from the books and wikis, you can kill any three people you wish. " -

Basically it's - remove from the books three characters, whose absense from the plot, can bring peace and prosperity to 7K.

So I posted my TOP-3, and also wrote why I have chosen specifically them, even though all three are positive characters, and not villains like Cersei or Litttlefinger.

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1 hour ago, Adam Yozza said:

Why would the Stormlands and Reach help Ned?

Not Ned, helped to Stannis.

Ned was going to remove Cersei, and her fake Baratheon children from Iron Throne, and give the crown to Stannis, who was Robert's rightful heir. And after he was attacked by Jaime, betrayed by Littlefinger, and all people from his household were killed, it became personal. And thus Ned would have wanted to pay them back as good as he got. So after regaining his freedom, he would have definitely went into war against Lannisters. And he's not the kind of person, that would have done that to get a crown for himself. Thus he would have supported Stannis as his and 7K's rightful King.

If The North went into war against Lannisters, then The Riverlands and The Vale also would have supported Stannis. Same how they united, and fought for Robert during Robert's Rebellion. In the books, after Ned was executed, and his people went into war against Lannisters-fBaratheons, The Vale stayed out of that conflict. Because that's what Lysa wanted. And her people listened to her, even though they didn't liked it. Though if they knew, that Lysa was influenced by Littlefinger, and that this order to stay out of the conflict, was actually his will, and not Lysa's, then I think, that things could have developed differently. Maybe they would have even removed Lysa from her position, and took her son away from her, maybe even imprisoned her, and control of The Vale would have been given to Harrold Hardyng. He was Jon's heir, so he and other Knights of The Vale would have supported Ned and Stannis. 

Also if Lannisters' enemies would have united, instead of each of them fighting only for their own gain, like it was in the War of Five Kings, then Dornismen would have also joined them. Because they were waiting for a long time for their revenge. Though even if Dorne didn't joined Stannis, he would have still won. Because during Robert's Rebellion, The North & The Vale & Riverlands were able to defeat Targaryens and their supporters.

1 hour ago, Adam Yozza said:

Reach help Ned? They would follow Renly, just like in canon.

Renly decided to try for the crown, only because Stannis didn't had support. But if Northerners, and Riverlanders, and Valemen, were on Stannis' side, then Renly and with him other Stormlanders, wouldn't have dared to rebel against Stannis.

1 hour ago, Adam Yozza said:

Why would the Vale get involved? They didn't in canon and there's no reason for Lysa to have changed in your scenario.

Ned knew about LF. So if he would have survived, and became free, he would have ask for help from The Vale, not only from Lysa, but also from people that fought alongside him during previous conflict. If Lysa declined to help, then Ned could have suspected, what made her do that. To Jon Arryn, Ned and Robert were like his own sons, and Ned was also Robyn's uncle. Ned could have figured out that LF, and maybe even Lysa, took part in Jon's poisoning. So Ned could have met with Houses of The Vale, and informed them about what he knew. So they could have removed Lysa from ruling over The Vale, and even could have taked her son from her, and could have sent him to become Stannis' ward, which was what his father originally was planning to do.

So Valemen would have supported Ned, and thus Stannis too. Isn't this logical? If people knew what LF did, it would have totally changed extend of his influence over events in The Vale, no? :huh:

1 hour ago, Adam Yozza said:

Why would the Ironborn help? Balon didn't attack the West in canon, why would he now?

For the same reason why they weren't misbehaving, after failure of Balon's previous rebellion - Ned would have still had Theon. Only Robb was stupid enough, to let him go back to Iron Islands. Jon wouldn't have made that mistake, neither would Ned.

1 hour ago, Adam Yozza said:

So you've basically got the War of Four Kings, instead of Five Kings.

No, it would have been - everyone against Lannisters.

But even if The Reach supported Lannisters, and Dorne didn't took part at all, it still would have been Stannis' victory.

In the west - Riverlanders, Northerners, and fleet of Ironborn VS Westerlanders, Reachmen, and fleet of the Arbor; (Riverlanders are better warriors than Reachmen, Ironborn are stronger and more vicious than Redwynes, Northerners are better warriors than Westerlanders. On Western front Ned would have fought against Tywin. It's obvious which one of them would have won. Ned is younger, and Tywin is prefering to stay out of danger. Whose people would have been more pumped, to fight for their commander? People that fight alongside their leader, are always more motivated than those, whose leader is just watching from above, how they bleed and die. So the outcome of that battle is obvious.)

Eastern front - Stormlanders from one side, and Valemen from the other VS Lannisters in King's Landing. (Based on what actually happened in the books - if Tywin haven't arrived with reinforcements, then Stannis would have won, even though Tyrion used wildfire against him. And this time Tywin himself was too busy to aid Cersei, he would have been kept in Casterly Rock under siege, or already dead.)  

The main reason why Lannisters won in that war, is because the other four Kings, didn't wanted to join their forces, each of them, including Robb, wanted to get a crown, not just to restore justice - take Cersei's bastards off Iron Throne, and give the crown to Robert's rightful heir - Stannis. Robb didn't supported Stannis, because unlike Ned, he was pursuing his own agenda, and that wasn't to get revenge for Ned's death. If revenge and justice were all he wanted, then why not to join Stannis? :huh: The only explanation, is that he wanted more than just that.

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I don't know if killing #2 and #3 will necessarily bring peace but it is something that I want to happen.  Killing the first will mean the pink letter and the feud between the watch and the Boltons never happen.  

  1. Jon Snow - for starting a feud with the Boltons that will end up causing problems at the Wall.
  2. Sansa Stark - can't stand Sasna.
  3. Jaime - he pushed Bran out of the window and in the books, he's a Lannister through and through.
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16 hours ago, Quoth the raven, said:

 

  1. Jon Snow - for starting a feud with the Boltons that will end up causing problems at the Wall.

That saves who, exactly? The Boltons are scum, they need to be eliminated. "Caused problems at the Wall" sounds like a joke when we know that without Jon's unpopular decisions the few NWers remaining will eventually be killed by the Wildings, one day or an other…

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On 4/4/2018 at 0:33 PM, TMIFairy said:

It is the First Day of the First Month of 298AC.

In order to bring peace, prosperity and progress to the Seven Kingdoms, for the good of the children, and having all the knowledge from the books and wikis, you can kill any three people you wish.

My list:

1 - Varys

2 - Baelish

3 - Euron

 

Who would it be for you?

 

 

For me, I would kill Jon, Sansa, and Theon.  That world would be so much better without these three lame-brained meat balloons.

By Jon, I mean Jon Snow, the bastard at the wall.  I saw somebody below asking for clarification, so I want to make this clear.

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From now this thread belongs to the “anti-Stark” sub-category.

23 minutes ago, Mon ami said:

For me, I would kill Jon, Sansa, and Theon.  That world would be so much better without these three lame-brained meat balloons.

By Jon, I mean Jon Snow, the bastard at the wall.  I saw somebody below asking for clarification, so I want to make this clear.

Please explain how this fictional world would be better without Sansa…

 

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On 4/4/2018 at 0:33 PM, TMIFairy said:

It is the First Day of the First Month of 298AC.

In order to bring peace, prosperity and progress to the Seven Kingdoms, for the good of the children, and having all the knowledge from the books and wikis, you can kill any three people you wish.

My list:

1 - Varys

2 - Baelish

3 - Euron

 

Who would it be for you?

 

 

Varys and Baelish are opportunists.  Getting them out of the picture is not going to stop Robb, Tywin, Balon, and Renly from playing the game of thrones.  Baelish tricked Catelyn but all that did is put the blame on a different Lannister.  The truth will out and sooner or later, Jaime's attempted murder of Bran will become known.  Robb, Cate, and Ned would behave as they did.  Tywin would send his men to the Tully's.  Sansa will crush on Joff.  Illyrio would arrange the marriage of Princess Daenerys to Khal Drogo.  Robert would send his assassins and Khaleesi will birth her dragons.  The Lannisters will beat the Starks.  Jon betrays the NW for Arya.  You get the picture.  

I don't know, maybe if Jaime and Cersei were a little more discreet?  Say Jaime and Cersei died on the way north.  Cersei's wagon turned over and Jaime got crushed too.  Witnessed by all so Tywin has no reason to be suspicious.  

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1. Catylen

2. Baelish

3. Cersei

(1)Tyrion is never kidnapped so no Lannister Stark escalation.

(2)Less chaos is created for the benefit of only Littlefinger.

(3)Robert is not killed.  Assuming Ned is hand, Cersei's children never become King/Queen.

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