Norse Mythology and ASOIAF

[ChuckPunch]

You want to look up Lucifer Means Lightbringer and his essay/podcast about this subject. Odin has similarities with tons of characters, as well as his relation with Yggdrasil is quite revealing for the core themes of characters like Bloodraven, Bran and Euron. 

[Ghost+Nymeria4Eva]

20 minutes ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

Just because magic exists, does not mean gods exist... and maybe we are just nitpicking about the definition of god. I’m saying we have no proof of an intelligence behind the flames or weirwoods that didn’t start out walking and talking like man or child.

That's why I said that these "gods" may not exactly be what the people believe them to be. However, I would say it's a stretch to say that the god-like powers don't have an intelligence behind it. In GRRMverse, being man-like is not the threshold for intelligence. Some things are just beyond the comprehension of people. That's probably where these god things are going. If there is no sentient type of intelligence behind the flames, then how do the flames respond to Mel, or any other type of calling? 

20 minutes ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

There is lots of evidence of magic, but very little proof there is something more godlike than a bitter old corpse in a tree or a cabal of ancient dinner guests

I wouldn't say we have proof per se, but we do get hints. Patchface for starters, who sing of the underwater world. People with foresight like Mel, who seem to get it from the flames. The inexplicable resurrections of Cat and Beric. The face changing in the House of Black and White. 

It's clear that neither Bloodraven or the Undying are the sources of magical power, but only vessels or users of that power. Bloodraven doesn't have any powers to give others the ability of greensight, for example. The Undying are in service to something else, the floating blue heart or the worm-like thing that Dany sees. These incomprehensible powers, or rather the source of these powers, is what gets called a god. 

[By Odin's Beard]

3 hours ago, Ghost+Nymeria4Eva said:

The weirwoods are associated with greenseeing, R'hllor with fire resurrection, the Many Faced God with face changing assassinations, and so on. R'hllor and Drowned God seem to be similar in their power of resurrection. And all the known gods, except the Seven, are associated with blood sacrifices. 

Have you been reading anything that I have been posting?  Beric is described as a greenseer on a weirwood throne, in a weirwood cave, with many parallels to Bloodraven, yet you assume that it is R'hllor that brings him back and not the weirwood? 

Melisandre has red eyes, red hair, Heart-shaped face, red hair is "kissed by fire" the weirwood leaves are a "blaze of flame" and "a thousand bloodstained hands"

"Ygritte had been kissed by fire; the red priestess was fire, and her hair was blood and flame."  Blood and flame is how weirwood leaves are described.

The burning heart is the symbol of R'hllor, the weirwood itself is the burning heart tree.  The weirwood doesn't hate flame, it is flame.

"There is a power in living wood," said Jojen Reed, almost as if he knew what Bran was thinking, "a power strong as fire."

The Weirwood network has many faces, facilitates shape-shifting (skin-changing = face-changing, Melisandre's ruby allows her to face-change) is a god of death it loves human sacrifice, the House of Black and White is very similar to Bloodraven's cave. 

(the many faces of god is a reference to the book series "The Masks of God" by Joseph Campbell, which details the history of religious traditions as all fundamentally describing the same god)

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The roots were everywhere, twisting through earth and stone, closing off some passages and holding up the roofs of others. All the color is gone, Bran realized suddenly. The world was black soil and white wood. The heart tree at Winterfell had roots as thick around as a giant's legs, but these were even thicker. And Bran had never seen so many of them. There must be a whole grove of weirwoods growing up above us.

Bloodraven's cave is a house of Black and White, and Bloodraven's cave is a Hall of Faces:

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On either side of them, in niches carved from the stone, skulls looked down on them. Bran saw a bear skull and a wolf skull, half a dozen human skulls and near as many giants. All the rest were small, queerly formed. Children of the forest. The roots had grown in and around and through them, every one.

 

"children of the forest in their secret cities.

"Braavos, the Secret City"
 

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I haven't given a lot of thought to the Drowned God, but the phrase "What is dead may never die." and that "Blood sacrifice is done by slitting the throat of thralls, after which the bodies are given to the sea"  Driftwood crowns, "The greatest of all the priests of the Drowned God was Galon Whitestaff,"

Resurrection, blood sacrifice, whitestaff, undead things living forever.  That is pretty similar to the weirwood.

The Drowned God also parallels the Norse sea god Ran, who liked to steal men off of boats.

---------------------------------

 

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Some scholars have suggested that the dragonlords regarded all faiths as equally false, believing themselves to be more powerful than any god or goddess. They looked upon priests and temples as relics of a more primitive time, though useful for placating "slaves, savages, and the poor" with promises of a better life to come. Moreover, a multiplicity of gods helped to keep their subjects divided and lessened the chances of their uniting under the banner of a single faith to overthrow their overlords.

The people are being played.  It is a "wedge issue" to keep people at each other's throats and keep the bloodshed going.  Who benefits from such a system?  A planet-spanning creature that feeds on negative psychic energy and blood.

Braavos has temples to all the gods in its harbor.  Braavos itself is a Secret City, like the CoTF tree cities, it is described in very similar language to Greywater Watch, another CoTF-ish city (and the Isle of Faces), and it is under the legs of a Stone Giant with green hair.  The Titan of Braavos is a metaphor for the weirwood, and all the other gods are contained within him.

Edited Monday at 04:16 PM by By Odin's Beard

[White Ravens]

10 hours ago, By Odin's Beard said:

I do see Weirwood everywhere.  I think it is the main antagonist of the story.  Westeros itself is described as a living organism.  Its locations are body parts, it has the God's Eye, the Fingers, the Neck.  The Weirwood network runs under the soil throughout all of Westeros, except through solid rock, it is the life-force that animates Westeros.  It is everywhere and sees everything and manipulates people and events to suit its interests--and its interests are mainly just blood sacrifice.

 

In my post up above I outlined how the House of the Undying directly parallels Bloodraven's cave. 

The warlocks/undying were trying to trap Dany to steal her and her dragons power "They wanted her, needed her, the fire, the life" just like Bloodraven and the CotF are trying with Bran--Bloodraven's cave is littered with thousands of bones of victims of the Weirwood.  The description of the Undying as ancient and withered beings who live under a stone tree/stone serpent--long past normal life span, who subsist on the sap from that tree which gives visions, and want to eat the flesh/drain the life from of one of the main characters to assimilate their powers.  Many enter, but few leave.

They even have a CotF-looking guy "A small dwarf no more than knee high with a snoutish face, garbed in purple and blue livery", is a servant.

The description of shade of the evening is very similar to weirwood paste

"The weirwood paste at first tastes bitter, then better, then almost sweet, tasting of honey"  Fed to Bran by CotF tree nymphs.

shade of the evening "on her tongue was a taste like honey"  Fed to Daenarys by a little dwarf servant

That passage above, in Dany's vision "Ten thousand slaves lifted bloodstained hands" (which is the weirwood descriptor) to grab at her, then they changed into the Undyding grabbing at her.  That is drawing a direct link between weirwood and shade of the evening trees.

It is not reckless, there is a lot of textual support for it.

 

"the five-pointed red leaves turned black by night "

I don't know why they are black, one idea is that they were corrupted by the Bloodstone Emperor when he almost got control of the network.

 

"The wide smooth trunks were bone pale, and nine faces stared inward. The dried sap that crusted in the eyes was red and hard as ruby." 

" And suddenly Ghost was back, stalking softly between two weirwoods. White fur and red eyes, Jon realized, disquieted. Like the trees …"

"Lady Melisandre was seated near the fire, her ruby glimmering against the pale skin of her throat. . . and her hair was blood and flame."

" Red silk, red eyes, the ruby red at her throat, red lips curled in a faint smile "

"her heart-shaped face, coppery hair, and unearthly red eyes

"Her eyes were two red stars, shining in the dark. At her throat, her ruby gleamed, a third eye glowing brighter than the others. Jon had seen Ghost's eyes blazing red the same way, when they caught the light just right. "Ghost," he called. "To me."  The direwolf looked at him as if he were a stranger."

"Red eyes, Jon realized, but not like Melisandre's. He had a weirwood's eyes. Red eyes, red mouth, white fur. Blood and bone, like a heart tree."

"The direwolf's red eyes were darker than garnets "

" Ghost appeared beside him, his warm breath steaming in the cold. In the moonlight, his red eyes glowed like pools of fire "

" Ghost hunched with white fur bristling. He made no sound, but his dark red eyes spoke blood "

Ghost of High Heart

" The firelight made her eyes gleam as red as the eyes of Jon's wolf. He was a ghost too."

" its slitted red eyes and bloody mouth. It is only sap, she'd told herself, the red sap that flows inside these weirwoods. But her eyes were unconvinced; seeing was believing, and what they saw was frozen blood."

" And for one strange moment it seemed as if it were Bran's face carved into the pale trunk of the weirwood, staring down at him with eyes red and wise and sad."

" The only thing that looked alive in the pale ruin that was his face was his one red eye, burning like the last coal in a dead fire, surrounded by twisted roots and tatters of leathery white skin hanging off a yellowed skull "

" but once in a great while one is born amongst them with eyes as red as blood, or green as the moss on a tree in the heart of the forest. By these signs do the gods mark those they have chosen to receive the gift "

 

Red eyes is how "the gods mark those they have chosen"  Of the 51 mentions of "red eyes" I think 45 were referring to Ghost, Melisandre, and the Weirwood.  Then Bloodraven, and the Ghost of High Heart both have red eyes.  The other mentions are to Euron's sigil, Aenys Frey's "watery red eyes" and a sliced off nipple, and someone getting punched in the eye, and a white mouse with red eyes sigil.

Ghost, the Weirwood, Melisandre, Bloodraven, the Ghost of High Heart, all red eyes, all weirwood avatars.  Melisandre even has a Heart-shaped face, and a third-eye.

This also draws a parallel between blood eyes, fire eyes, weirwood eyes, ruby eyes--all the same thing.

 

I will address the weirwood asteroid in another post.

You did draw some parallels between the house of the undying with it's black barked trees that have inky blue leaves that are used to make shade of the evening and Bloodraven's cave with it's weirwood trees and that weirwood paste is made from their seeds and sap.  And then you started making references to weirwood trees in Essos and Quarth.  Drawing parallels between two things doesn't make those two things become the same thing. 

 

Wow, lot's of red eye references.  You certainly did your red eye research (Thank goodness for A Search of Ice and Fire) and I will admit that I was unaware that most red eye descriptions belong to Bloodraven, Ghost, weirwood trees and Melisandre.  But i guess it makes sense because red eyes are unusual and those three are known to have red eyes and weirwoods have red sap which colours the eyes that get carved into their trunks.  Ghost and Bloodraven are albinos who always have red eyes.  I think the  Ghost of  High Heart is also believed to be an albino.  I questioned the red connection when you wrote this...

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Mel is a hardcore weirwood avatar, with a weirwood sap necklace, her visions are sent by the Weirwoods, and she is being played.

I  can see what you mean about Melisandre being an avatar for weirwoods.  She is pale white like the trunk of a weirwood and she has red hair like the red leaves of the trees.  She even has a heart shaped face and weirwoods are sometimes referred to as heart trees.  But I'm still getting hung up on this weirwood sap necklace reference of yours.  Melisandre comes from Ashai in the far east of Essos and she is described as always wearing a red gold choker with a very large ruby over her throat.  Rubies are associated with glamours.   She glamours herself to look young and attractive.  The ruby is deeply linked to her powers and glows when she draws upon it as she did when she willingly drank the poison offered her by Maester Cressen.  I don't see much of a parallel between weirwood sap and rubies (other than both being red). 

I have always assumed that Melisandre has red eyes because of her fiery R'hllor priestess abilities and the huge ruby she wears at her throat.  At any rate Jon doesn't think that her eyes are like those of Bloodraven, weirwoods and Ghost.

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"Red eyes, Jon realized, but not like Melisandre's. He had a weirwood's eyes. Red eyes, red mouth, white fur. Blood and bone, like a heart tree."

 

[By Odin's Beard]

13 hours ago, White Ravens said:

Congratulations for coming up with the concept of a weirwood asteroid.  It makes me chuckle. 

 

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Bloodstone Emperor and beginning a reign of terror. He practiced dark arts, torture, and necromancy, enslaved his people, took a tiger-woman for his bride, feasted on human flesh, and cast down the true gods to worship a black stone that had fallen from the sky. (Many scholars count the Bloodstone Emperor as the first High Priest of the sinister Church of Starry Wisdom, which persists to this day in many port cities throughout the known world).

In the annals of the Further East, it was the Blood Betrayal, as his usurpation is named, that ushered in the age of darkness called the Long Night. Despairing of the evil that had been unleashed on earth, the Maiden-Made-of-Light turned her back upon the world, and the Lion of Night came forth in all his wroth to punish the wickedness of men.

The Bloodstone itself has parallels to weirwood.  Weirwood runs on blood, has bloody leaves, and it turns to stone.

What is the Bloodstone Emperor accused of doing?  Necromancy, enslaving people, feasting on human flesh, practicing dark arts, marrying a tiger-woman.  The weirwood can raise people from the dead, Bloodraven is enslaved in his cave, the weirwood eats human flesh (and so does Bran), the CoTF have cat's eyes and they are wedded to the trees, in a sense.

The Church of Starry Wisdom is a Lovecraft thing, they worshiped the alien artifact the Shining Trapezohedron, which  "serves as a window on all of space and time. By gazing into it, its wielder would summon Nyarlathotep in his avatar as the eponymous Haunter of the Dark. In exchange for horrible sacrifices, the Haunter of the Dark would reveal other worlds and arcane knowledge."

When the Bloodstone Emperor usurped his sister, the Lion of Night came forth.

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single realm ruled by the God-on-Earth, the only begotten son of the Lion of Night and Maiden Made-of-Light, who traveled about his domains in a palanquin carved from a single pearl and carried by a hundred queens, his wives. For ten thousand years the Great Empire of the Dawn flourished in peace and plenty under the God-on-Earth, until at last he ascended to the stars to join his forebears.

 

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The Five Forts are very old, older than the Golden Empire itself; some claim they were raised by the Pearl Emperor during the morning of the Great Empire to keep the Lion of Night and his demons from the realms of men

The Lion of Night is clearly two separate things, it is the Black spaceship that the God-on-Earth arrived and departed in, and it refers to the Night's King who brings his demons to the realms of men.  When the Black spaceship eclipses the sun (Maiden Made of Light), the Lion of Night comes forth to punish the wickedness of man.  In some cultures, the lion symbolizes power and royalty and some powerful rulers had the word "lion" in their nickname, e.g. "Lion of Mali,"  so the phase "Lion of ____"  means "The Powerful Ruler of ____" The Lion of Night is the Night's King, the Powerful Ruler of Night.

So, the Bloodstone Emperor did things similar to the Weirwood, and when he took power, the sun was eclipsed and the Others came.  The Others were created by the CoTF and the Weirwood.  Just a coincidence?

Add to that the Red Comet, which when it arrived, magical things started happening again.  It is not a stretch to think that the Red Comet itself is weirwood.

 

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Tyrion: Have you seen these others in your fires?
Moqorro: Only their shadows. One most of all. A tall and twisted thing with one black eye and ten long arms, sailing on a sea of blood

Euron has the Red and Black all-seeing-eye of malice as his sigil, he is the Crow's Eye, He has a black stone in his eye socket.  He is the Bloodstone Emperor returned.

 

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He showed the world his blood eye now, dark and terrible. Clad head to heel in scale as dark as onyx, he sat upon a mound of blackened skulls as dwarfs capered round his feet and a forest burned behind him…

Then Euron lifted a great horn to his lips and blew, and dragons and krakens and sphinxes came at his command and bowed before him. “Kneel, brother,” the Crow’s Eye commanded…

“Never. No godless man may sit the Seastone Chair!”

“Why would I want that hard black rock? Brother, look again and see where I am seated.”

Aeron Damphair looked. The mound of skulls was gone. Now it was metal underneath the Crow’s Eye: a great, tall, twisted seat of razor sharp iron, barbs and blades and broken swords, all dripping blood.

Impaled upon the longer spikes were the bodies of the gods. The Maiden was there and the Father and the Mother, the Warrior and Crone and Smith…even the Stranger. They hung side by side with all manner of queer foreign gods: the Great Shepherd and the Black Goat, three-headed Trios and the Pale Child Bakkalon, the Lord of Light and the butterfly god of Naath.

And there, swollen and green, half­-devoured by crabs, the Drowned God festered with the rest, seawater still dripping from his hair.

Then Euron Crow’s Eye laughed again, and the priest woke screaming in the bowels of Silence,  as piss ran down his leg. It was only a dream, a vision born of foul black wine.

 

  but Euron was no longer human. He seemed more squid than man, a monster fathered by a kraken of the deep, his face a mass of writhing tentacles. Beside him stood a shadow in woman’s form, long and tall and terrible, her hands alive with pale white fire. Dwarves capered for their amusement, male and female, naked and misshapen, locked in carnal embrace, biting and tearing at each other as Euron and his mate laughed and laughed and laughed…

Euron impales and kills all the gods except the weirwood, which is burning behind him.  The blowing of the horn calls back the Black spaceship and eclipses the sun, and the Lion of Night comes forth in all his wroth, and the Others will come south.  Children of the Forest types dance around his feet.  Euron is going to hijack the weirwood, like the Bloodstone Emperor did.

[By Odin's Beard]

8 minutes ago, White Ravens said:

At any rate Jon doesn't think that her eyes are like those of Bloodraven, weirwoods and Ghost.

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"Red eyes, Jon realized, but not like Melisandre's. He had a weirwood's eyes. Red eyes, red mouth, white fur. Blood and bone, like a heart tree."

He is clearly trying to convince himself that Ghost was different from Melisandre.  He hates Melisandre, but his beloved Ghost chose her over him, and they look very similar, and he is trying to rationalize their similarities away--unconvincingly.

15 minutes ago, White Ravens said:

I don't see much of a parallel between weirwood sap and rubies (other than both being red).

"The dried sap that crusted in the eyes was red and hard as ruby."  That is pretty much saying they are the same thing. Blood red jewel that bestows magical powers on its wearer, allows face-changing, extended life-span (although you just keep getting more decrepit), allows her to enslave people,

"The ruby at her throat throbbed slowly, and Jon saw that the smaller stone on Rattleshirt's wrist was brightening and darkening as well. "So long as he wears the gem he is bound to me, blood and soul"

"Rubies flew like drops of blood"

"a hundred dark red rubies sewn into her bodice, covering her from neck to bosom. They were cut in the shape of teardrops, as if the queen were weeping blood."

" Then a string of red tears appeared across the big man's throat, bright as a ruby necklace, and the blood gushed out of him "

Rubies = blood tears = weeping red eyes = weirwood sap, the power of Rubies is that they are dried Weirwood sap, that allow the wearer remote access to weirwood magic.

[White Ravens]

4 hours ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

They are the same thing, look closely and the biggest difference is just the color of the trees...

Two things having similarities doesn't make them the same thing.  White trees with red leaves and red sap are not the same thing as black trees with inky blue leaves.  The white one is revered by two species (Children of the Forest and First Men) and steeped in ancient traditions involving the carving of faces of the trunks of the trees, the connection with greenseers and prophesy, even blood sacrifice.  There are rituals to aid the visions of greenseers involving the consumption of a paste made from the seeds and sap of the tree.  The other trees live on a different continent and have black bark and inky blue leaves.  We don't know what these trees are called but their leaves are used to make Shade of the Evening which is a wine consumed by the Warlocks of Qarth to gain visions and perhaps prophecies. 

Edited Monday at 07:17 PM by White Ravens

[White Ravens]

1 hour ago, By Odin's Beard said:

 

The Bloodstone itself has parallels to weirwood.  Weirwood runs on blood, has bloody leaves, and it turns to stone.

What is the Bloodstone Emperor accused of doing?  Necromancy, enslaving people, feasting on human flesh, practicing dark arts, marrying a tiger-woman.  The weirwood can raise people from the dead, Bloodraven is enslaved in his cave, the weirwood eats human flesh (and so does Bran), the CoTF have cat's eyes and they are wedded to the trees, in a sense.

The Church of Starry Wisdom is a Lovecraft thing, they worshiped the alien artifact the Shining Trapezohedron, which  "serves as a window on all of space and time. By gazing into it, its wielder would summon Nyarlathotep in his avatar as the eponymous Haunter of the Dark. In exchange for horrible sacrifices, the Haunter of the Dark would reveal other worlds and arcane knowledge."

When the Bloodstone Emperor usurped his sister, the Lion of Night came forth.

 

The Lion of Night is clearly two separate things, it is the Black spaceship that the God-on-Earth arrived and departed in, and it refers to the Night's King who brings his demons to the realms of men.  When the Black spaceship eclipses the sun (Maiden Made of Light), the Lion of Night comes forth to punish the wickedness of man.  In some cultures, the lion symbolizes power and royalty and some powerful rulers had the word "lion" in their nickname, e.g. "Lion of Mali,"  so the phase "Lion of ____"  means "The Powerful Ruler of ____" The Lion of Night is the Night's King, the Powerful Ruler of Night.

So, the Bloodstone Emperor did things similar to the Weirwood, and when he took power, the sun was eclipsed and the Others came.  The Others were created by the CoTF and the Weirwood.  Just a coincidence?

Add to that the Red Comet, which when it arrived, magical things started happening again.  It is not a stretch to think that the Red Comet itself is weirwood.

 

Euron has the Red and Black all-seeing-eye of malice as his sigil, he is the Crow's Eye, He has a black stone in his eye socket.  He is the Bloodstone Emperor returned.

 

Euron impales and kills all the gods except the weirwood, which is burning behind him.  The blowing of the horn calls back the Black spaceship and eclipses the sun, and the Lion of Night comes forth in all his wroth, and the Others will come south.  Children of the Forest types dance around his feet.  Euron is going to hijack the weirwood, like the Bloodstone Emperor did.

Ah, the Bloodstone Emperor.  So many people have hinged some major assumptions on this character who barely has more than a paragraph of material dedicated to him.  A god-like legendary figure who earned the wrath of the god of night in the mythology and legends of a people who may or may not have existed thousands and thousands of years ago.  It's fun to speculate, I get that, but there really isn't much to go on.  That is how we end up with theories that include the Red Comet being a weirwood tree.  I don't have any recollections of the God on Earth having a black spaceship.

I also don't have any recollection of Euron having a black stone in his eye socket.  He has heterochromia which means that his eyes are two different colours - one blue, one dark.  

I'm not trying to be a downer, I just don't have your capacity to see links and make assumptions outside of what is presented in the story.  Maybe I lack poetry in my soul.

[White Ravens]

1 hour ago, By Odin's Beard said:

He is clearly trying to convince himself that Ghost was different from Melisandre.  He hates Melisandre, but his beloved Ghost chose her over him, and they look very similar, and he is trying to rationalize their similarities away--unconvincingly.

"The dried sap that crusted in the eyes was red and hard as ruby."  That is pretty much saying they are the same thing. Blood red jewel that bestows magical powers on its wearer, allows face-changing, extended life-span (although you just keep getting more decrepit), allows her to enslave people,

"The ruby at her throat throbbed slowly, and Jon saw that the smaller stone on Rattleshirt's wrist was brightening and darkening as well. "So long as he wears the gem he is bound to me, blood and soul"

"Rubies flew like drops of blood"

"a hundred dark red rubies sewn into her bodice, covering her from neck to bosom. They were cut in the shape of teardrops, as if the queen were weeping blood."

" Then a string of red tears appeared across the big man's throat, bright as a ruby necklace, and the blood gushed out of him "

Rubies = blood tears = weeping red eyes = weirwood sap, the power of Rubies is that they are dried Weirwood sap, that allow the wearer remote access to weirwood magic.

Jon may have been trying to convince himself that Ghost and Melisandre have eyes that are red but not in the same way.  Or he might be right and their eyes actually are different.

As for the connection between weirwood sap and rubies I think you are stretching.  Real world experiences have taught me that the sap of many trees flows freely down the trunk and then dries and solidifies.  Sometimes these bits of solidified sap can be remarkably hard and of course amber is petrified sap.  GRRM was simply using a simile to emphasize the redness and the hardness of the sap.

Saying that red sap has become as hard as a ruby is a simile.  The books are written in English so GRRM had to use something hard to compare solidified sap to and he chose rubies.  GRRM is not saying that weirwood sap and rubies are the same thing.  Rubies flew like drops of blood is also a simile.  The rubies that were on Rhaegars breast plate were not actually weirwood sap that had turned to stone and were now turned to blood.  They were rubies that were reminiscent of blood as they flew threw the air. 

[The Fattest Leech]

2 hours ago, White Ravens said:

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Mel is a hardcore weirwood avatar, with a weirwood sap necklace, her visions are sent by the Weirwoods, and she is being played.

 

No, Melisandre is a not a hardcore weirwood avatar. Melisandre literally carries the fiery heart banner of R'hllor and she is guided by the fiery hand of the Red Rahloo as well. Melisandre is the antithesis to the other female standard bearers like Brienne and Val (in her own way). The red fires consume those that it encircles and enchants. At the wall it is noted that Mel is the fiery queen, even before Selyse is ranked as one. And oh yeah, Selyse is another fiery dragon character and the fires in both of them are trespassers in the icy cold north. Melisanre's ruby acts just like the Greeshka mind controllers from A Song for Lya where there are "burns" left behind on the followers. Very fiery stuff.

A Clash of Kings - Catelyn III

Renly would be last to arrive. He had told her as much when she set out. He did not propose to mount his horse until he saw his brother well on his way. The first to arrive must wait on the other, and Renly would do no waiting. It is a sort of game kings play, she told herself. Well, she was no king, so she need not play it. Catelyn was practiced at waiting.

As he neared, she saw that Stannis wore a crown of red gold with points fashioned in the shape of flames. His belt was studded with garnets and yellow topaz, and a great square-cut ruby was set in the hilt of the sword he wore. Otherwise his dress was plain: studded leather jerkin over quilted doublet, worn boots, breeches of brown roughspun. The device on his sun-yellow banner showed a red heart surrounded by a blaze of orange fire. The crowned stag was there, yes . . . shrunken and enclosed within the heart. Even more curious was his standard bearer—a woman, garbed all in reds, face shadowed within the deep hood of her scarlet cloak. A red priestess, Catelyn thought, wondering. The sect was numerous and powerful in the Free Cities and the distant east, but there were few in the Seven Kingdoms.

[then]

The red-clad priestess spoke up. "The king has taken for his sigil the fiery heart of the Lord of Light."

That sap connection is a stretch at best. If anything, what Melisandre's necklace is made of is #1 a ruby gemstone, or, #2 a piece of the red colored obsidian... but most likely it is the actual gemstone because of that super small and super vague reference to the gemstone emperor that is fiery.

A Storm of Swords - Samwell V

"Dragonglass." The red woman's laugh was music. "Frozen fire, in the tongue of old Valyria. Small wonder it is anathema to these cold children of the Other."

"On Dragonstone, where I had my seat, there is much of this obsidian to be seen in the old tunnels beneath the mountain," the king told Sam. "Chunks of it, boulders, ledges. The great part of it was black, as I recall, but there was some green as well, some red, even purple. I have sent word to Ser Rolland my castellan to begin mining it. I will not hold Dragonstone for very much longer, I fear, but perhaps the Lord of Light shall grant us enough frozen fire to arm ourselves against these creatures, before the castle falls."

Sam cleared his throat. "S-sire. The dagger . . . the dragonglass only shattered when I tried to stab a wight."

 

You know what weirwood gal Ghost does take a natural liking to? Val. I won't get in to Val and Lyanna and such here because it seems you are pretty set that weirwoods are extraterrestrial being of some sort. I can't agree with that at all and I have little desire to discuss this idea. Read For a Single Yesterday if you want to get another good glimpse at how GRRM uses his white barked, red leafed trees that grow next to water.

 

1 hour ago, By Odin's Beard said:

He is clearly trying to convince himself that Ghost was different from Melisandre.  He hates Melisandre, but his beloved Ghost chose her over him, and they look very similar, and he is trying to rationalize their similarities away--unconvincingly.

Ghost did not chose Melisandre because she is red and white. That is an unfounded assumption. Red+White =/= automatically mean WEIRWOODS!!! Melisandre is described as fire over and over again, all the way down to her swirling, flaming clothes. She is the fire-hand in the same but different as the way Coldhands is the Ice-hand.

Jon does not like nor does he trust Melisandre, that is true, and Jon is right to do so... except he has just learned this a little too late (think back to the fiery hand Red Rahloo wields)

And no, Ghost does not genuinely like Melisandre at all. It is a trick, a glamour, a trick of the charlatan that is GRRM's favorite red witch trickster like he uses over and over again.

Melisandre is using spells and glamours here- and Jon for one smells it. This isn't true affection. And Jon points out elsewhere that Ghost is like the trees, the old gods, and then specifically says "not like Melisandre".

Melisandre is Jon's perfumed senechal that he must watch out for. She has been using her powders and spells in heavier force while at the wall, as she notes when she describes how her supplies are low. Plus, the wall gives off it's own magic that she is vampire sucking off of.

• ADWD/ Jon VI- Ch 28: In the shadow of the Wall, the direwolf brushed up against his fingers. For half a heartbeat the night came alive with a thousand smells, and Jon Snow heard the crackle of the crust breaking on a patch of old snow. Someone was behind him, he realized suddenly. Someone who smelled warm as a summer day.

When he turned he saw Ygritte.

...Surprise made him recoil from her. "Lady Melisandre." He took a step backwards. "I mistook you for someone else." At night all robes are grey. Yet suddenly hers were red. He did not understand how he could have taken her for Ygritte.

..."Ghost." Melisandre made the word a song. (song, as in spell like MMD says)

...The direwolf padded toward her. Wary, he stalked about her in a circle, sniffing. When she held out her hand he smelled that too

... At her throat, her ruby gleamed, a third eye glowing brighter than the others.

• ADWD/Mel- Ch31: The carved chest that she had brought across the narrow sea was more than three-quarters empty now. And while Melisandre had the knowledge to make more powders, she lacked many rare ingredients. My spells should suffice. She was stronger at the Wall, stronger even than in Asshai. Her every word and gesture was more potent, and she could do things that she had never done before. Such shadows as I bring forth here will be terrible, and no creature of the dark will stand before them. With such sorceries at her command, she should soon have no more need of the feeble tricks of alchemists and pyromancers.
  • ASOS/ Davos III: "With a smile and swirl of scarlet skirts, she was gone. Only her scent lingered after."

1 hour ago, By Odin's Beard said:

"The dried sap that crusted in the eyes was red and hard as ruby."  That is pretty much saying they are the same thing. Blood red jewel that bestows magical powers on its wearer, allows face-changing, extended life-span (although you just keep getting more decrepit), allows her to enslave people,

"The ruby at her throat throbbed slowly, and Jon saw that the smaller stone on Rattleshirt's wrist was brightening and darkening as well. "So long as he wears the gem he is bound to me, blood and soul"

"Rubies flew like drops of blood"

"a hundred dark red rubies sewn into her bodice, covering her from neck to bosom. They were cut in the shape of teardrops, as if the queen were weeping blood."

" Then a string of red tears appeared across the big man's throat, bright as a ruby necklace, and the blood gushed out of him "

Rubies = blood tears = weeping red eyes = weirwood sap, the power of Rubies is that they are dried Weirwood sap, that allow the wearer remote access to weirwood magic.

Be careful using the search site. With great power comes great responsibility . Just because you might get 50 hits about potatoes, it does not mean all potatoes mean the same thing to every person. We are dealing with a story built on individuals, and potato symbolism to one is not the same as potato symbolism to another. Sometimes GRRM just likes to use his same old literary devices over and over again. Like worms. Have you read In the House of the Worm? How many different types of worms are there? Four, five? And none of them are the same thing and do not act as the same type of symbolism.

Also, the way GRRM uses rubies in this story has to do with a relation to garnets as well, with garnets being the "bastard" gem to the "royal" ruby. I understand you have started reading some of GRRM's older stories? GREAT!!! I love it, and them, and all of it. You will see a repeat of this garnet-vs-ruby symbolism in the stories The Skin Trade and Fevre Dream and how it relates to supposed legitimacy, who has "powers", etc. You will also see a ton of Jon-vs-Ramsay archetypes in these stories, and that ain't so coincidence. Also in Dying of the Light, you will see a certain "air car" that is a white wolf with ruby "eyes" which the protag uses for safety from the other people.

Ack! I could go on, but I need to run. Good stuff.

[By Odin's Beard]

 

36 minutes ago, White Ravens said:

 I also don't have any recollection of Euron having a black stone in his eye socket.  He has heterochromia which means that his eyes are two different colours - one blue, one dark. 

Euron is an insane sorcerer pirate, and you are suggesting he is just ashamed of his weird colored eye and that's why he wears an eyepatch?  If that eye worked, why would he wear an eyepatch?  And what is with the nightmare vision where he reveals the blood eye and he is a Bloodstone Emperor-style god-killing sorcerer tyrant?

"white leather eye patch that reminded Theon of his uncle Euron. He'd wanted to rip it off Umber's face, to make certain that underneath was only an empty socket, not a black eye shining with malice "

"He showed the world his blood eye now, dark and terrible "

 

blood eye, dark and terrible, and black eye shining with malice--red and black eye, just like on his sigil.  Bloodstone is black and red.  A "dark and terrible eye shining with malice" sounds like more than just heterochromia.  Sounds evil and magical and ominous to me.

The crow's eye, which "can espy death from afar" and he mentions the flying dream he had when he was a child--which for Bran involved the 3-eyed-crow and opening your third eye, although Euron doesn't mention the 3-eyed-crow, he calls himself the Crow's Eye.

 

 

1 hour ago, White Ravens said:

I don't have any recollections of the God on Earth having a black spaceship

It is right there in the text, the God-on-Earth was the only begotten son of the Lion of Night (some celestial body, not the moon) and the Maiden made of Light (the sun)--there was an eclipse event--they mated, and he came down from the "heavens" at that time.  Later on, the God-on-Earth "ascended to the stars to join his forebears"--literally went back to space.  And the Lion of Night blocks the sun during the Long Night (the Maiden-Made-of-Light turned her back upon the world).  That spells out spaceship to me.

 

[LiveFirstDieLater]

4 hours ago, White Ravens said:

Two things having similarities doesn't make them the same thing. 

Men come in different colors and  it doesn’t make them different beasts...

Quote

White trees with red leaves and red sap are not the same thing as black trees with inky blue leaves. 

I’m suggesting they are...

Quote

The white one is revered by two species (Children of the Forest and First Men) and steeped in ancient traditions involving the carving of faces of the trunks of the trees, the connection with greenseers and prophesy, even blood sacrifice. 

Servitors=Children

Now I’m gonna go off the rails for a min because I can’t help myself...That very first room of the House of the Undying Dany views, with the servitors raping a beautiful woman, I’ve never understood this to be a metaphor for the war of five kings, I believe in the final chamber the Undying answered when she asked what she had seen on the way in, this was the first answer, the Shape of Shadows... the shapes of the shadows Dany saw in MMDs tent: the great wolf and the burning man. The Children/Servitors are behind them both, and give offspring with men the king’s blood. Blood of the dragon and first man blood is all a description of halfbreed descendants still carrying the passed down traits from the forces of nature the Children can speak too, dragons in the fires of Valyria, or Others in the lands of always winter. The Weirwoods are now like the story of the Rat King Bran hears, only the weirwoods feed on their own children because everyone now has a drop of Child-blood, and since we’ve seen Bran taste blood and heard Leaf talk about going into the tree, I would suggest that the crime of breaking guest right was because then you would absorb your recently violently slain enemy into yourself (or if you prefer a metaphore for men, you have Manderly's Frey Pie). One look at Lady Stoneheart should provide reason enough to avoid that, and might be why she was brought back to life. The vengeful part of her reincarnated only to be consumed by the fire which animated her. After all, A man has a right to Vengence. This then ties back into the Rat Cook story, who was punished for breaking guestright. The cook was pale white, like the Weirwood roots, and the pale wormlike thing pree devolves into during one of Dany’s visions in the long hall.

Men=Men (this is a core concept of the series)

Ancient - The Undying are an ancient order in an ancient palace

Prophesy - We get arguably more prophesy in the House of the undying than the rest of the series put together.

Sacrifice - Many enter, none leave the main enterence....

Face- The other door is the shape of a face.

Quote

There are rituals to aid the visions of greenseers involving the consumption of a paste made from the seeds and sap of the tree. 

The shade of the evening = Westwood paste

Quote

The other trees live on a different continent and have black bark and inky blue leaves. 

The continents used to be connected by the arm of dorne...

As we see with Coldhands, even though his consciousness appears preserved, his limbs have turned black and blood blue, like a corpse. Or, if you prefer, it is the ancient heart of a city, rotting. 

I'm not opposed to the idea that this is a separate network at this point from those in Westeros: south around the God's Eye and that north of the wall around Bloodraven's Lair.

Quote

We don't know what these trees are called but their leaves are used to make Shade of the Evening which is a wine consumed by the Warlocks of Qarth to gain visions and perhaps prophecies. 

We don’t really know anything about the creation of Shade of the Evening or Weirwood Paste, but they are described with the same odd taste changing and mind altering effects.

They look the same to me, besides the color... 

And I believe it is an overarching theme in the series that extremes are bad and balance is necessary... fire and ice will end up being two faces of the same destruction if the wise cannot prevail and forge a peace.

Edited Monday at 11:44 PM by LiveFirstDieLater

[LiveFirstDieLater]

1 hour ago, White Ravens said:

That is how we end up with theories that include the Red Comet being a weirwood tree.  I don't have any recollections of the God on Earth having a black spaceship.

Ya, I’m not sold on the spaceship, not that it’s impossible I guess, but I stuggle to imagine it will be revealed or relevant, and just not sure I see the astronomy parallels as more than just a literary tool to connect bits and pieces of tales and legends from Westeros and Earth Mythology with the plot of the series.

[By Odin's Beard]

20 minutes ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

Ya, I’m not sold on the spaceship, not that it’s impossible I guess, but I stuggle to imagine it will be revealed or relevant, and just not sure I see the astronomy parallels as more than just a literary tool to connect bits and pieces of tales and legends from Westeros and Earth Mythology with the plot of the series.

 

The spaceship(s) is a way to explain the eclipses that have occurred, the arrival of the God-on-Earth, the Qartheen moon event, the Long Night, and the upcoming Long Night.  It is a wanderer (planet) from far off places.  It can also explain the irregular seasons.

The seven planets are:

1: Mercury is Warrior

2: Venus morningstar is the Maiden

3: Venus evenstar is the Mother

4:Mars is the Smith (red wanderer) (Ares)

5:Jupiter is the Father (Jupiter)

6:Saturn is the Crone (Cronus)

7:The Stranger

The Stranger is an unusual black planetary body that is a wanderer from far off places, very unlike the rest of the planets, it has no gender, whereas the other planets are male or female, it has no regular orbit, it is unknown and unknowable, its presence can only be detected when it passes in front of another celestial body--

"the Stranger was neither male nor female, yet both, ever the outcast, the wanderer from far places, less and more than human, unknown and unknowable. Here the face was a black oval, a shadow with stars for eyes."  Similar to "the moon was a black hole in the sky." 

Sandor's horse is called the Stranger, and he himself is referred to as the Stranger and as emerging from the darkness and blotting out the sun.  He is the Hound.  First he hounds (follows) the Sun (Joffery) then he hounds Sansa (Venus) then he hounds Arya (Mercury).  Both girls lose their wolves (their hound).  He kills Mycah the butchers boy, "Mycah has been cut up in so many pieces that his body was brought back to his father in a bag" sounds a lot like planetary debris.  Some of which could be trailing the Stranger (the guilt is following him)(see also the Book of Micah from the Bible*)

Beric Dondarrion " bēr (Old English) means  "bier; a litter to transport dead people"  "donder" in dutch means "to plummet, tumble" He represents the Red Comet.

The fight between the Hound and Beric when the Hound breaks Beric's flaming sword and kills him might be the Stranger passing in front of the Red Comet, because Beric is immediately brought back to life.  Then Sandor abandons his hound helm, he is no longer dogging a planet.  When the dragonbinder horn was blown it called the ship back to Earth.  Sandor is a gravedigger now, and he is lame, so he can't get here very fast.

 

The Book of Micah is about God punishing mankind for being terrible,  "Therefore, the Lord says: “I am planning disaster against this people, from which you cannot save yourselves. The Lord is coming from his dwelling place; he comes down and treads on the heights of the earth. The mountains melt beneath him and the valleys split apart, like wax before the fire, like water rushing down a slope. . . Then they will cry out to the Lord, but he will not answer them.  At that time he will hide his face from them because of the evil they have done."

Quote

“Clegane cast a long shadow across the hard-packed earth as his squire lowered the black helm over his head.”

“A shadow fell across his face.  He turned to find Clegane looming overhead like a cliff. His soot-dark armor seemed to blot out the sun.”

“Sandor Clegane seemed to take form out of the night, so quickly did he appear.”

“'I'll tell you what it was, girl,' he said, a voice from the night, a shadow leaning so close now that she could smell the sour stench of wine on his breath.”

“A shadow detached itself from the shadow of the wall, to become a tall man in dark grey armor.”

“Then something stirred behind her, and a hand reached out of the dark and grabbed her wrist.”

 

One of Bran's dreams:

Quote

One shadow was dark as ash, with the terrible face of a hound. Another was armored like the sun, golden and beautiful. Over them both loomed a giant in armor made of stone, but when he opened his visor, there was nothing inside but darkness and thick black blood.

The Hound, the Sun, and the Mountain blocking them both. 

Quote

He saw Maester Luwin on his balcony, studying the sky through a polished bronze tube and frowning as he made notes in a book.

Did Luwin know the Stranger was coming?

Two astronomical references that are presented while Bran is falling (like a meteor) to Earth.

 

Also, the Clegane sigil is 3 black dogs on a field of yellow.  Three black dogs whose nature it is to block out the sun (Hound, Mountain, and dead sister are the three Great Empire Ships)

The Mountain is somewhere nearby and it is messing up the seasons, that might be what is blocking out the sun over Asshai.

 

Finally, someone already mentioned Skoll and Hati from Norse mythology, but here is a refresher:

Quote

Skoll (“One Who Mocks”) and Hati (“One Who Hates”) were two brother wolves, Skoll was a wolf that persued the sun in her flight across the sky.  At Ragnarok, the doom of the gods, Skoll was destined to seize the sun between his jaws and swallow her.  Another wolf, Hati, chased after the moon.  (Some have the roles of Skoll and Hati reversed). 

At Ragnarok, the downfall of the cosmos, they catch their prey as the sky and earth darken and collapse.

Ravenous dogs often threatened to eat the heavenly bodies in the myths of northern parts of both Europe and Asia.

There is the Chinese myth of tiangou

Quote

tiangou ("Heavenly Dog") is a legendary creature from China. The tiangou resembles a black dog or meteor, which is thought to eat the sun or moon during an eclipse

 

[Brynden Blackfyre]

10 minutes ago, By Odin's Beard said:

 

The spaceship(s) is a way to explain the eclipses that have occurred, the arrival of the God-on-Earth, the Qartheen moon event, the Long Night, and the upcoming Long Night.  It is a wanderer (planet) from far off places.  It can also explain the irregular seasons.

The seven planets are:

 

1: Mercury is Warrior

 

2: Venus morningstar is the Maiden

 

3: Venus evenstar is the Mother

 

4:Mars is the Smith (red wanderer) (Ares)

 

5:Jupiter is the Father (Jupiter)

 

6:Saturn is the Crone (Cronus)

 

7:The Stranger

 

The Stranger is an unusual black planetary body that is a wanderer from far off places, very unlike the rest of the planets, it has no gender, whereas the other planets are male or female, it has no regular orbit, it is unknown and unknowable, its presence can only be detected when it passes in front of another celestial body--

"the Stranger was neither male nor female, yet both, ever the outcast, the wanderer from far places, less and more than human, unknown and unknowable. Here the face was a black oval, a shadow with stars for eyes."  Similar to "the moon was a black hole in the sky." 

Sandor's horse is called the Stranger, and he himself is referred to as the Stranger and as emerging from the darkness and blotting out the sun.  He is the Hound.  First he hounds (follows) the Sun (Joffery) then he hounds Sansa (Venus) then he hounds Arya (Mercury).  Both girls lose their wolves (their hound).  He kills Mycah the butchers boy, "Mycah has been cut up in so many pieces that his body was brought back to his father in a bag" sounds a lot like planetary debris.  Some of which could be trailing the Stranger (the guilt is following him)(see also the Book of Micah from the Bible*)

Beric Dondarrion " bēr (Old English) means  "bier; a litter to transport dead people"  "donder" in dutch means "to plummet, tumble" He represents the Red Comet.

The fight between the Hound and Beric when the Hound breaks Beric's flaming sword and kills him might be the Stranger passing in front of the Red Comet, because Beric is immediately brought back to life.  Then Sandor abandons his hound helm, he is no longer dogging a planet.  When the dragonbinder horn was blown it called the ship back to Earth.  Sandor is a gravedigger now, and he is lame, so he can't get here very fast.

 

The Book of Micah is about God punishing mankind for being terrible,  "Therefore, the Lord says: “I am planning disaster against this people, from which you cannot save yourselves. The Lord is coming from his dwelling place; he comes down and treads on the heights of the earth. The mountains melt beneath him and the valleys split apart, like wax before the fire, like water rushing down a slope. . . Then they will cry out to the Lord, but he will not answer them.  At that time he will hide his face from them because of the evil they have done."

 

 

 

One of Bran's dreams:

The Hound, the Sun, and the Mountain blocking them both. 

Did Luwin know the Stranger was coming?

Two astronomical references that are presented while Bran is falling (like a meteor) to Earth.

 

Also, the Clegane sigil is 3 black dogs on a field of yellow.  Three black dogs whose nature it is to block out the sun (Hound, Mountain, and dead sister are the three Great Empire Ships)

The Mountain is somewhere nearby and it is messing up the seasons, that might be what is blocking out the sun over Asshai.

 

Finally, someone already mentioned Skoll and Hati from Norse mythology, but here is a refresher:

There is the Chinese myth of tiangou

 

This is a nice theory. 

[By Odin's Beard]

4 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

ADWD/ Jon VI- Ch 28: In the shadow of the Wall, the direwolf brushed up against his fingers. For half a heartbeat the night came alive with a thousand smells, and Jon Snow heard the crackle of the crust breaking on a patch of old snow. Someone was behind him, he realized suddenly. Someone who smelled warm as a summer day.

When he turned he saw Ygritte.

...Surprise made him recoil from her. "Lady Melisandre." He took a step backwards. "I mistook you for someone else." At night all robes are grey. Yet suddenly hers were red. He did not understand how he could have taken her for Ygritte.

..."Ghost." Melisandre made the word a song. (song, as in spell like MMD says)

...The direwolf padded toward her. Wary, he stalked about her in a circle, sniffing. When she held out her hand he smelled that too

... At her throat, her ruby gleamed, a third eye glowing brighter than the others.

 

 

Quote

“The bones help,” said Melisandre. “The bones remember. The strongest glamors are built of such things. A dead man’s boots, a hank of hair, a bag of fingerbones. With whispered words and prayer, a man’s shadow can be drawn forth from such and draped about another like a cloak. The wearer’s essence does not change, only his seeming.”

Quote

" Cats were not fooled by a mummer's moles "

How was Ghost fooled by a glamor when the wearer's essence does not change, only the seeming?  If cats are not fooled by the Faceless Men's face-changing, why would Ghost be duped by Mel's alleged Ygritte glamor?  So fooled in fact, that he doesn't even recognize or respond to Jon?

Also, Mel had never met Ygritte, how did she exactly duplicate her smell?  The strongest glamors are built on personal items, she did not have any of Ygritte's personal items.

There is something more than a glamor going on between Ghost and Mel.

Also, we seem to be talking past one another, I am claiming that the fiery heart of R'hllor is heart tree with leaves of fire and you rebut with R'hllor is the fiery heart though.  I am saying R'hllor was invented by the weirwood to incite religious hatred, it is a game.

Quote

On one side is R'hllor, the Lord of Light, the Heart of Fire, the God of Flame and Shadow. Against him stands the Great Other whose name may not be spoken, the Lord of Darkness, the Soul of Ice, the God of Night and Terror

If the God of Flame and Shadow is opposed to the God of Ice,

why does Mel's power increasing at the wall in the land of Ice?,

when her shadow baby stabs Renly, Renly mutters the word "Cold" right before it happens. Why?

"Lady Catelyn was there when His Grace was murdered, she saw. There was a shadow. The candles guttered and the air grew cold, and there was blood—"

" 'Cold,' her king said, puzzled, and a shadow moved without a man to cast it, and her sweet lord's blood came washing through the green steel of his gorget to drench her hands. He had been a warm man, but his blood was cold as ice."

Quote

"There are no shadows in the dark. Shadows are the servants of light, the children of fire. The brightest flame casts the darkest shadows."

The Others are: "The cold gods," she said. "The ones in the night. The white shadows."

" The white walkers of the wood, the cold shadows "

 

In that quote you posted the ruby is called Mel's third eye, which is an obvious 3-eyed-crow and weirwood greenseeing reference.

Edited Tuesday at 01:29 AM by By Odin's Beard

[The Fattest Leech]

1 minute ago, By Odin's Beard said:

 

How was Ghost fooled by a glamor when the wearer's essence does not change, only the seeming?  If cats are not fooled by the Faceless Men's face-changing, why would Ghost be duped by Mel's alleged Ygritte glamor?  So fooled in fact, that he doesn't even recognize or respond to Jon?

Also, Mel had never met Ygritte, how did she exactly duplicate her smell?  The strongest glamors are built on personal items, she did not have any of Ygritte's personal items.

Melisandre pulled her Ygritte spell at the same place where Ygritte died/spilled blood. Blood and fire, the both of them. Better than a hank of hair.

And then in the same scene in ADWD/Jon VI, Melisandre also tries to sway Jon to her side by promising to save his little sister, the "moon" has kissed Jon, Jon has the discusssion about sorcery is sword without a hilt; meaning: Melisandre has no control over her powers- she constantly mis-reads her flames because she is but a vessel, and then Mel tries to provoke Jon in to banging her to create more shadow babies. Banging Mel and making shadow babies has about near killed Stannis, and Mel knows this, but Mel doesn't care and wants Jon to carry on that zealot practice all in order to please her fiery god in casting shadows to kill anyone that gets in her/R'hllor's way. 

A Dance with Dragons - Jon I

More guards stood outside the king's solar. "No arms are allowed in His Grace's presence, my lord," their serjeant said. "I'll need that sword. Your knives as well." It would do no good to protest, Jon knew. He handed them his weaponry.

Within the solar the air was warm. Lady Melisandre was seated near the fire, her ruby glimmering against the pale skin of her throat. Ygritte had been kissed by fire; the red priestess was fire, and her hair was blood and flame. Stannis stood behind the rough-hewn table where the Old Bear had once been wont to sit and take his meals. Covering the table was a large map of the north, painted on a ragged piece of hide. A tallow candle weighed down one end of it, a steel gauntlet the other.

A Dance with Dragons - Jon VI

Jon let out a white breath. "He is not always so …"

"… warm? Warmth calls to warmth, Jon Snow." <--- Mel using the "fire" and blood of Ygritte "kissed by fire".

...

 

I am not a wolf, he thought. "And how would I do that?"

"I can show you." Melisandre draped one slender arm over Ghost, and the direwolf licked her face. "The Lord of Light in his wisdom made us male and female, two parts of a greater whole. In our joining there is power. Power to make life. Power to make light. Power to cast shadows."

"Shadows." The world seemed darker when he said it.

...

Jon glanced over his shoulder. The shadow was there, just as she had said, etched in moonlight against the Wall. A girl in grey on a dying horse, he thought. Coming here, to you. Arya. He turned back to the red priestess. Jon could feel her warmth. She has power. The thought came unbidden, seizing him with iron teeth, but this was not a woman he cared to be indebted to, not even for his little sister. "Dalla told me something once. Val's sister, Mance Rayder's wife. She said that sorcery was a sword without a hilt. There is no safe way to grasp it."

"A wise woman." Melisandre rose, her red robes stirring in the wind. "A sword without a hilt is still a sword, though, and a sword is a fine thing to have when foes are all about. Hear me now, Jon Snow. Nine crows flew into the white wood to find your foes for you. Three of them are dead. They have not died yet, but their death is out there waiting for them, and they ride to meet it. You sent them forth to be your eyes in the darkness, but they will be eyeless when they return to you. I have seen their pale dead faces in my flames. Empty sockets, weeping blood." She pushed her red hair back, and her red eyes shone. "You do not believe me. You will. The cost of that belief will be three lives. A small price to pay for wisdom, some might say … but not one you had to pay. Remember that when you behold the blind and ravaged faces of your dead. And come that day, take my hand." The mist rose from her pale flesh, and for a moment it seemed as if pale, sorcerous flames were playing about her fingers. "Take my hand," she said again, "and let me save your sister."

 

Aeron Winds of Winter chapter

Spoiler

Beside him stood a shadow in woman’s form, long

and tall and terrible, her hands alive with pale white fire.

 

>You can see here that Mel is related to the inverse weirwood trees that are the Shade trees on the opposite side of the world, the underworld. Euron is all blue-lipped and black-eyed, like when Dany almost has her eye eaten away while in the HotU, something similar happened to Euron, as he is related to the underworld setting of ASOIAF.

 

1 minute ago, By Odin's Beard said:

Also, we seem to be talking past one another, I am claiming that the fiery heart of R'hllor is heart tree with leaves of fire and you rebut with R'hllor is the fiery heart though.

This argument has been done before by a small group of other posters who seem to have left the forums here. I do not support this idea because we readers are told time and again that trees and fire do not mix. But hey, we shall see.

1 minute ago, By Odin's Beard said:

 

  I am saying R'hllor was invented by the weirwood to incite religious hatred, it is a game.

I do not believe this at all, but if you do, then hey, we shall see. In the meantime, what does that accomplish in this story?

To me history has done a decent (not perfect) job of explaining the relationship between the first men and the trees/CotF, and there was only peace once a pact was agreed upon, but the things are going out of whack again as old pacts are broken (both Ice and Fire, and the Targ bow or burn agreement that Mad King Aerys broke).

A Storm of Swords - Arya VIII

"She will leave on the morrow, with us," Lord Beric assured the little woman. "We're taking her to Riverrun, to her mother."

"Nay," said the dwarf. "You're not. The black fish holds the rivers now. If it's the mother you want, seek her at the Twins. For there's to be a wedding." She cackled again. "Look in your fires, pink priest, and you will see. Not now, though, not here, you'll see nothing here. This place belongs to the old gods still . . . they linger here as I do, shrunken and feeble but not yet dead. Nor do they love the flames. For the oak recalls the acorn, the acorn dreams the oak, the stump lives in them both. And they remember when the First Men came with fire in their fists." She drank the last of the wine in four long swallows, flung the skin aside, and pointed her stick at Lord Beric. "I'll have my payment now. I'll have the song you promised me."

A Dance with Dragons - Jon III

"You have your gods and she has hers. Leave her be."

"She won't let our gods be," argued Toad. "She calls the Seven false gods, m'lord. The old gods too. She made the wildlings burn weirwood branches. You saw."

A Storm of Swords - Jon XI

Lord Snow. Ser Alliser Thorne had named him that, to mock his bastard birth. Many of his brothers had taken to using it as well, some with affection, others to wound. But suddenly it had a different sound to it in Jon's ears. It sounded . . . real. "Yes," he said, hesitantly, "kings have legitimized bastards before, but . . . I am still a brother of the Night's Watch. I knelt before a heart tree and swore to hold no lands and father no children."

"Jon." Melisandre was so close he could feel the warmth of her breath. "R'hllor is the only true god. A vow sworn to a tree has no more power than one sworn to your shoes. Open your heart and let the light of the Lord come in. Burn these weirwoods, and accept Winterfell as a gift of the Lord of Light."

And Mel shows us that she is fire, the anathema to ice as she tries and tries to trick Jon in to trusting her:

As they walked beneath the Wall, she slipped her arm through his. Morgan and Merrel went before them, Ghost came prowling at their heels. The priestess did not speak, but she slowed her pace deliberately, and where she walked the ice began to drip. He will not fail to notice that.

1 minute ago, By Odin's Beard said:

Her power increasing at the wall is a hint, when her shadow baby stabs Renly, Renly mutters the word "Cold" right before it happens.

What does Renly have to do with this? He died from a cast fiery shadow murder.

Her power is not increasing at the wall, but rather she is leeching off of its magic within the ice. Once she is away from the wall again, and her mummer's powders are all gone, she will be a crone with maybe the talent to read flames, just not interrupt them very well.
And there are two different types of cold, just as there are different types of fires. Keep reading GRRM stories and you will see this because it is mentioned in various stories. Not all is the same same.

1 minute ago, By Odin's Beard said:

In that quote you posted the ruby is called Mel's third eye, which is an obvious 3-eyed-crow and weirwood greenseeing reference.

Who said this is limited to the three-eyed crow?

So, someone is watching through the red ruby. Opening a third eye has to do with gaining worldly insight and a type of greater "intelligence". This is not Melisandre's intelligence. Two different things and she admits she is often wrong. When Mel partakes in certain practices her ruby reacts and burns her. This is a response to her devotions, and even burning the trees. Again, since you said you were reading up on all GRRM stories, you have read Nightflyers, right? How does the crazy-fiery-dragon-mothership spy on people??? Through the red ruby crystal "eye" that is placed all around the ship. It is all about control by a "third" entity.

Here we see that Melisandre is full of "magic" at deceiving those around her, and she is but held to a thralldom from another "entity".

"The bones help," said Melisandre. "The bones remember. The strongest glamors are built of such things. A dead man's boots, a hank of hair, a bag of fingerbones. With whispered words and prayer, a man's shadow can be drawn forth from such and draped about another like a cloak. The wearer's essence does not change, only his seeming."

She made it sound a simple thing, and easy. They need never know how difficult it had been, or how much it had cost her. That was a lesson Melisandre had learned long before Asshai; the more effortless the sorcery appears, the more men fear the sorcerer. When the flames had licked at Rattleshirt, the ruby at her throat had grown so hot that she had feared her own flesh might start to smoke and blacken. Thankfully Lord Snow had delivered her from that agony with his arrows. Whilst Stannis had seethed at the defiance, she had shuddered with relief.

[The Fattest Leech]

1 hour ago, By Odin's Beard said:

 

How was Ghost fooled by a glamor when the wearer's essence does not change, only the seeming?  If cats are not fooled by the Faceless Men's face-changing, why would Ghost be duped by Mel's alleged Ygritte glamor?  So fooled in fact, that he doesn't even recognize or respond to Jon?

Here are the quotes to show that Mel pulled her nasty glamour trick on Jon at the same place where Ygritte died... better (worse) than a hank of hair.

A Storm of Swords - Jon VII

He found Quort dead, and Stone Thumbs dying. He found some dead and dying Thenns he had never truly known. He found Big Boil, weak from all the blood he'd lost but still alive.

He found Ygritte sprawled across a patch of old snow beneath the Lord Commander's Tower, with an arrow between her breasts. The ice crystals had settled over her face, and in the moonlight it looked as though she wore a glittering silver mask.

The arrow was black, Jon saw, but it was fletched with white duck feathers. Not mine, he told himself, not one of mine. But he felt as if it were.

A Dance with Dragons - Jon VI

When he turned he saw Ygritte.

She stood beneath the scorched stones of the Lord Commander's Tower, cloaked in darkness and in memory. The light of the moon was in her hair, her red hair kissed by fire. When he saw that, Jon's heart leapt into his mouth. "Ygritte," he said.

"Lord Snow." The voice was Melisandre's.

 

But the sad thing is this fire bride of Jon's was never meant to be in the author's eyes. It is sad. I hate reading this part.

A Storm of Swords - Jon X

"She's dead."

"Aye?" Tormund gave a sad shake of the head. "A waste. If I'd been ten years younger, I'd have stolen her meself. That hair she had. Well, the hottest fires burn out quickest." He lifted the skin of mead. "To Ygritte, kissed by fire!" He drank deep.

"To Ygritte, kissed by fire," Jon repeated when Tormund handed him back the skin. He drank even deeper.

Edited Tuesday at 02:13 AM by The Fattest Leech

[By Odin's Beard]

1 hour ago, The Fattest Leech said:

we readers are told time and again that trees and fire do not mix

"There is a power in living wood," said Jojen Reed, almost as if he knew what Bran was thinking, "a power strong as fire."

"The tree had been dead a long time, but it seemed to live again in the fire, as fiery dancers woke within each stick of wood to whirl and spin in their glowing gowns of yellow, red, and orange."

 

Trees are not the mortal enemy of fire.  Trees give birth to fire.  Trees live again in the fire.  They wake fiery dancers. 

 

1 hour ago, The Fattest Leech said:

What does Renly have to do with this? He died from a cast fiery shadow murder.

I updated my post, Renly was killed by a cold shadow that brought the cold.  Mel produced a cold shadow, the Others are described as cold shadows. 

 

1 hour ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Melisandre pulled her Ygritte spell at the same place where Ygritte died/spilled blood. Blood and fire, the both of them. Better than a hank of hair.

So, Mel gathered up some of her blood?  Still doesn't explain why Ghost liked her,  "The wearer's essence does not change, only his seeming." 

 

1 hour ago, The Fattest Leech said:

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I am saying R'hllor was invented by the weirwood to incite religious hatred, it is a game.

I do not believe this at all, but if you do, then hey, we shall see. In the meantime, what does that accomplish in this story?

I just read Song for Lya yesterday, the Greeshka was farming the Shkeen for blood the same way the Weirwood is.  The strategy is different though.  The Greeshka lured them in with love and a promise of an eternity of togetherness, the Weirwood is more psychotic, thriving on negative emotions and it uses warfare to get its blood.  The outcome is the same, blood for the supernatural hive-mind creature that lives underground in huge cave systems, and may or may not be a fungus.  The Greeska really wanted Lya because her psychic powers were very strong and it was going to be a useful edition to the hive-mind--same as Bran.

It was all a scam though, there was no eternity of bliss, your individuality was annihilated when you went into the network, Lya's mind only lasted a day in the network before it blew away like dust.  Their god was just a brain parasite.

What is accomplishes in the story is that someone (Bran) figures out that the weirwoods are the villain, and that they are farming us for blood, and destroys them.

Then there is this quote

11 hours ago, By Odin's Beard said:

Some scholars have suggested that the dragonlords regarded all faiths as equally false, believing themselves to be more powerful than any god or goddess. They looked upon priests and temples as relics of a more primitive time, though useful for placating "slaves, savages, and the poor" with promises of a better life to come. Moreover, a multiplicity of gods helped to keep their subjects divided and lessened the chances of their uniting under the banner of a single faith to overthrow their overlords.

Religion is a way to fragment people.  I haven't read Sandkings yet, but the summary sounds like it addresses this issue, a psychotic person with a god-complex sets groups of insects against each other and torments them for his personal enjoyment.  He makes them think he is god, they carve his face on their temples (later the faces are twisted and sinister).  They end up killing and eating him.

George said that we won't see any gods in the series, but we already have--the weirwood with their twisted and sinister faces.

"The heart tree had always frightened him; trees ought not have eyes, Bran thought, or leaves that looked like hands."

 

Edited Tuesday at 03:57 AM by By Odin's Beard

[The Fattest Leech]

1 hour ago, By Odin's Beard said:

"There is a power in living wood," said Jojen Reed, almost as if he knew what Bran was thinking, "a power strong as fire."

This is a not the same thing. This is a parallel of power, which makes sense in this story.

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"The tree had been dead a long time, but it seemed to live again in the fire, as fiery dancers woke within each stick of wood to whirl and spin in their glowing gowns of yellow, red, and orange."

 

Trees are not the mortal enemy of fire. 

True, because the story says the opposite, as I quoted above.

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Trees give birth to fire.  Trees live again in the fire.  They wake fiery dancers. 

Fire consumes trees. Fire is fickle, you never know which way the wind will make it change direction. Once it is done consuming the wood it will look elsewhere to maintain its life.

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I updated my post, Renly was killed by a cold shadow that brought the cold.  Mel produced a cold shadow, the Others are described as cold shadows. 

A Clash of Kings - Catelyn IV

"I beg you in the name of the Mother," Catelyn began when a sudden gust of wind flung open the door of the tent. She thought she glimpsed movement, but when she turned her head, it was only the king's shadow shifting against the silken walls. She heard Renly begin a jest, his shadow moving, lifting its sword, black on green, candles guttering, shivering, something was queer, wrong, and then she saw Renly's sword still in its scabbard, sheathed still, but the shadowsword . . .

"Cold," said Renly in a small puzzled voice, a heartbeat before the steel of his gorget parted like cheesecloth beneath the shadow of a blade that was not there. He had time to make a small thick gasp before the blood came gushing out of his throat.

 

We know that Melisandre and Stannis have to have sex to create these soul sucking shadow babies. Sex is heat. The shadow babies are birthed in heat. Renly's cold is the cold of death when it hurts to breathe, as it is described in ADWD.

A Clash of Kings - Davos II

There was no answer but a soft rustling. And then a light bloomed amidst the darkness.

Davos raised a hand to shield his eyes, and his breath caught in his throat. Melisandre had thrown back her cowl and shrugged out of the smothering robe. Beneath, she was naked, and huge with child. Swollen breasts hung heavy against her chest, and her belly bulged as if near to bursting. "Gods preserve us," he whispered, and heard her answering laugh, deep and throaty. Her eyes were hot coals, and the sweat that dappled her skin seemed to glow with a light of its own. Melisandre shone.

Panting, she squatted and spread her legs. Blood ran down her thighs, black as ink. Her cry might have been agony or ecstasy or both. And Davos saw the crown of the child's head push its way out of her. Two arms wriggled free, grasping, black fingers coiling around Melisandre's straining thighs, pushing, until the whole of the shadow slid out into the world and rose taller than Davos, tall as the tunnel, towering above the boat. He had only an instant to look at it before it was gone, twisting between the bars of the portcullis and racing across the surface of the water, but that instant was long enough.

 

@By Odin's Beard I am adding this excerpt here from A Song for Lya because after I posted the above Davos chapter with Melisandre giving birth, I realized how very much like it is in the cave scene in the ...Lya story when Robb goes in to the cave...

Spoiler

If I'd expected cave paintings, or an altar, or some kind of nature temple, I was sadly disappointed. It was an ordinary cave, with damp stone walls and low ceilings and cold, wet air. Cooler than most of
Shkea, and less dusty, but that was about it. There was one long, winding passage through the rock, wide enough for the four of us to walk abreast yet low enough so Gourlay had to stoop. Torches were set along the walls at regular intervals, but only every fourth one or so was lit. They burned with an oily smoke that seemed to cling to the top of the cave and drift down into the depths before us. I wondered what was sucking it in.
After about ten minutes of walking, most of it down a barely perceptible incline, the passage led us out into a high, brightly lit room, with a vaulting stone roof that was stained sooty by torch smoke. In the room, the Greeshka.
Its color was a dull brownish red, like old blood, not the bright near-translucent crimson of the small creatures that clung to the skulls of the Joined. There were spots of black, too, like burns or soot stains on the vasty body. I could barely see the far side of the cave; the Greeshka was too huge, it towered above us so that there was only a thin crack between it and the roof. But it sloped down abruptly halfway across the chamber, like an immense jellied hill, and ended a good twenty feet from where we stood.
Between us and the great bulk of the Greeshka was a forest of hanging, dangling red strands, a living cobweb of Greeshka tissue that came almost to our faces.
And it pulsed. As one organism. Even the strands kept time, widening and then contracting again, moving to a silent beat that was one with the great Greeshka behind them.
My stomach churned, but my companions seemed unmoved. They'd seen this before. "Come," Valcarenghi said, switching on a flashlight he'd brought to augment the torchlight. The light, twisting around the pulsing web, gave the illusion of some weird haunted forest. Valcarenghi stepped into that forest. Lightly. Swinging the light and brushing aside the Greeshka.

 

 

Melisandre is all fire when her religious experiences happen.

A Dance with Dragons - Melisandre I

A face took shape within the hearth. Stannis? she thought, for just a moment … but no, these were not his features. A wooden face, corpse white. Was this the enemy? A thousand red eyes floated in the rising flames. He sees me. Beside him, a boy with a wolf's face threw back his head and howled.

The red priestess shuddered. Blood trickled down her thigh, black and smoking. The fire was inside her, an agony, an ecstasy, filling her, searing her, transforming her. Shimmers of heat traced patterns on her skin, insistent as a lover's hand. Strange voices called to her from days long past. "Melony," she heard a woman cry. A man's voice called, "Lot Seven." She was weeping, and her tears were flame. And still she drank it in.

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So, Mel gathered up some of her blood? 

Let's not go down the sass route, ok.

Ygritte died there and it is not impossible that her "shade" remained in some way and her blood that fed that same ground where Melisandre pulls her tricks is quite possible in this world.

A Dance with Dragons - The King's Prize

There was only one woman that Stannis listened to, and he had left her on the Wall. "Though I would sooner she was with us," confessed Ser Justin Massey, the fair-haired knight who commanded the baggage train. "The last time we went into battle without Lady Melisandre was the Blackwater, when Lord Renly's shade came down upon us and drove half our host into the bay."

[this was a fake shade as it was someone else, Loras, in Renly's armour]

A Storm of Swords - Davos II

Captain Khorane had told him of the end of Stannis's hopes, on the night the river burned. The Lannisters had taken him from the flank, and his fickle bannermen had abandoned him by the hundreds in the hour of his greatest need. "King Renly's shade was seen as well," the captain said, "slaying right and left as he led the lion lord's van. It's said his green armor took a ghostly glow from the wildfire, and his antlers ran with golden flames."

Renly's shade. Davos wondered if his sons would return as shades as well. He had seen too many queer things on the sea to say that ghosts did not exist. "Did none keep faith?" he asked.

A Storm of Swords - Jon IV

"Why are you crying, then?"

"Not for fear!" She kicked savagely at the ice beneath her with a heel, chopping out a chunk. "I'm crying because we never found the Horn of Winter. We opened half a hundred graves and let all those shades loose in the world, and never found the Horn of Joramun to bring this cold thing down!"

 

 

 

 

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Still doesn't explain why Ghost liked her,  "The wearer's essence does not change, only his seeming." 

Because the direwolves are the acting extent of the owner. They react based on the emotions of their respective Stark child. Jon very plainly says he was confused and couldn't understand how he could mix up Mel for Ygritte and then he sees through her glamour. And what I quoted above shows that Mel was using magic here, as well as playing on Jon's emotions which were taught because he also just heard his sister was possibly alive.

A Dance with Dragons - Jon VI

"Lord Snow." The voice was Melisandre's.

Surprise made him recoil from her. "Lady Melisandre." He took a step backwards. "I mistook you for someone else." At night all robes are grey. Yet suddenly hers were red. He did not understand how he could have taken her for Ygritte. She was taller, thinner, older, though the moonlight washed years from her face. Mist rose from her nostrils, and from pale hands naked to the night. "You will freeze your fingers off," Jon warned.

"If that is the will of R'hllor. Night's powers cannot touch one whose heart is bathed in god's holy fire."

A Dance with Dragons - The Ugly Little Girl

"Bring me the face," said the kindly man. The waif made no answer, but she could hear her slippers whispering over the stone floor. To the girl he said, "Drink this," and pressed a cup into her hand. She drank it down at once. It was very tart, like biting into a lemon. A thousand years ago, she had known a girl who loved lemon cakes. No, that was not me, that was only Arya.

"Mummers change their faces with artifice," the kindly man was saying, "and sorcerers use glamors, weaving light and shadow and desire to make illusions that trick the eye. These arts you shall learn, but what we do here goes deeper. Wise men can see through artifice, and glamors dissolve before sharp eyes, but the face you are about to don will be as true and solid as that face you were born with. Keep your eyes closed." She felt his fingers brushing back her hair. "Stay still. This will feel queer. You may be dizzy, but you must not move."

 

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I just read Song for Lya yesterday, the Greeshka was farming the Shkeen for blood the same way the Weirwood is.  The strategy is different though.  The Greeshka lured them in with love and a promise of an eternity of togetherness, the Weirwood is more psychotic, thriving on negative emotions and it uses warfare to get its blood.  The outcome is the same, blood for the supernatural hive-mind creature that lives underground in huge cave systems, and may or may not be a fungus. 

The outcome is the same for fire, even though the details are the same for both Dany and Bran and their experiences. GRRM tends to extrapolate his previous archetypes from one character in to two to three. In Dying of the Light, Dirk is a combo of Eddard and Robert Baratheon. He takes one character and expands on them in later stories.

The same here. You go down in to a cave, but then it is all fire. The ceiling, the burns of people, the way it consumes, the soot stains and oil burns. The cave scene is used A LOT in many stories. GRRM has his people go down in to caves, having to duck low, in House of the Worm, Stone City, Jaime Lannister has to do it, Daenerys has to do it, Arya through the Red Keep, and so on. This is a favorite theme to get his characters in to dark, tight situation that leaves them in a sensory deprivation trance, which in turn allows a third eye to open. 

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The Greeska really wanted Lya because her psychic powers were very strong and it was going to be a useful edition to the hive-mind--same as Bran.

Close to Bran, but not the same. Daenerys and Bran have a HUGE amount of parallels in the story. These two are going to be the ones to duke it out one way or another.

Also, if you remember, Robb was almost sucked in too. Lya had the weakness of being unhappy in reality that left a blank spot in her mind, allowing her to be influenced by the bells. The bells are the first step to fiery consumptive death, as in ASOAIF the bells ringing refer to deaths, and those who wear bells in their hair are galloping death... lead by fire After the bells comes the eating of food (the meatsticks) that are so hot that they burn Robb and Lya. Then Lya says that what she experiences is a love that is "real and burning".

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What is accomplishes in the story is that someone (Bran) figures out that the weirwoods are the villain, and that they are farming us for blood, and destroys them.

I am not one for the idea that the weirwoods and the CotF are the evil doers. There is nothing I have seen in this story that paints them as being all bad. Maybe they messed up in the past, but they know what is coming now and nothing unites a people like having death show up on your shores.

Quote

Then there is this quote

Religion is a way to fragment people.  I haven't read Sandkings yet, but the summary sounds like it addresses this issue, a psychotic person with a god-complex sets groups of insects against each other and torments them for his personal enjoyment.  He makes them think he is god. 

Simon Kress craves...

Spoiler

...worship. All is good as long as he is being worshipped by the "sandkings" and his real life friends. The metaphors here are incredible. And Simon Kress is Daenerys all the way, even a sword from the sky. And Wo is Quaithe.

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They end up killing and eating him.

This ending is left very ambiguous. I would say it more foreshadows Dany second-lifeing Drogon and/or the return to the Dosh Khaleen.

Spoiler

The sun was on the horizon behind him. The ground grew a little cooler, for which Kress was grateful. He decided to walk until last light and settle down for the night. Surely he was far enough from the sandkings to be safe, and Wo and Shade would find him come morning.
When he topped the next rise, he saw the outline of a house in front of him.
It wasn't as big as his own house, but it was big enough. It was habitation, safety. Kress shouted and began to run toward it. Food and drink, he had to have nourishment, he could taste the meal already. He was aching with hunger. He ran down the hill toward the house, waving his arms and shouting to the inhabitants. The light was almost gone now, but he could still make out a half-dozen children playing in the twilight. "Hey there," he shouted. "Help, help."
They came running toward him.
Kress stopped suddenly. "No," he said, "oh, no. Oh, no." He backpedaled, slipping on the sand, got up, and tried to run again. They caught him easily. They were ghastly little things with bulging eyes and dusky orange skin. He struggled, but it was useless. Small as they were, each of them had four arms, and Kress had only two.
They carried him toward the house. It was a sad, shabby house, built of crumbling sand, but the door was quite large, and dark, and it breathed. That was terrible, but it was not the thing that set Simon Kress to screaming. He screamed because of the others, the little orange children who came crawling out of the castle, and watched impassively as he passed. All of them had his face.

 

Edited Tuesday at 05:06 AM by The Fattest Leech
added the book quote