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Why would Stannis ever marry Selyse??? WHY?????


House Beaudreau

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Recently, I have been wondering why would Stannis ever marry Selyse Florent??? At the time of their marriage, Stannis would have been quite a prize in all of the seven kingdoms, he was probably still Robert's heir. I don't know if Joffrey was born yet but still.  You would think every high lord in westeros would have been offering up their daughters to Stannis. I have looked long and hard at the florent family tree and their is literally no reason why stannis would ever accept. Even if Selyse was a great beauty and Stannis was in love with her, Robert and John Arryn probably should have realized how important Stannis was, and married him to at least to a lord's daughter. I don't think this betrothal happened before the rebellion, or during the rebellion for that matter. WHY THEN? WHY??????? 

All this has lead me to believe that Stannis' marriage to Selyse was for duty and there was some sort of political reasoning behind it.... I have some pretty outlandish theories about why but ultimatly I just want to know of any reasons why Stannis would marry Selyse.  

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25 minutes ago, House Beaudreau said:

Recently, I have been wondering why would Stannis ever marry Selyse Florent??? At the time of their marriage, Stannis would have been quite a prize in all of the seven kingdoms, he was probably still Robert's heir. I don't know if Joffrey was born yet but still.  You would think every high lord in westeros would have been offering up their daughters to Stannis. I have looked long and hard at the florent family tree and their is literally no reason why stannis would ever accept. Even if Selyse was a great beauty and Stannis was in love with her, Robert and John Arryn probably should have realized how important Stannis was, and married him to at least to a lord's daughter. I don't think this betrothal happened before the rebellion, or during the rebellion for that matter. WHY THEN? WHY??????? 

All this has lead me to believe that Stannis' marriage to Selyse was for duty and there was some sort of political reasoning behind it.... I have some pretty outlandish theories about why but ultimatly I just want to know of any reasons why Stannis would marry Selyse.  

Well, the match was likely arranged before Joffrey’s birth or while Cersei was pregnant with Joffrey; at the very least the marriage took place c. 286-287AC, since Robert impregnated Delena Florent at the wedding. 

As far as Lords Paramount, there were few options. Sansa was an infant, Asha was 10, Cersei was married to Robert, Jon had no daughters, Margaery was 2, and Arianne was 10. So on to the next tier. And Jon Arryn really liked making marriage alliances, since three came out of Robert’s Rebellion. Though he could have tried with making an alliance with the Martells to tie them back to the realm.

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44 minutes ago, House Beaudreau said:

At the time of their marriage, Stannis would have been quite a prize in all of the seven kingdoms, he was probably still Robert's heir.

Stannis was heir-presumptive, not heir-apparent. Meaning he was the de facto heir only until Robert has children, then he gets trumped by them, and their children and so on. It's still important, but that's a considerable difference there that would be obvious to most lords. Robert was young, lusty and known to be able to sire bastards. Only if a tragedy befalls Robert early does Stannis become King and who knows if the Kingdom holds up then anyway?

Selyse was from a wealthy ancient house in a region that had formerly been enemies. It's a solid marriage and provides diplomatic and military advantages when dealing with the Tyrells. The Florents only have 2000 men (but thats - 2000 for Tyrell, +2000 for Baratheons = 4000 advantage), and if they defect to Robert, more houses might follow (Fossoways, Meadows etc).

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The Florents have been low key rivals to the Tyrells since the conquest. They believe they have a greater claim to Highgarden by having more royal Gardener King's blood in their line. The Tyrells raised the Reach for the Targaryens in the rebellion, so a marriage to a powerful House of the Reach could undermine the Tyrells if they ever try to rise against the Baratheons. 

Stannis HATES the Tyrells and so do the Florents.

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16 minutes ago, GallowsKnight said:

Selyse was from a wealthy ancient house in a region that had formerly been enemies. It's a good marriage and provides diplomatic and military advantages when dealing with the Tyrells. The Florents only have 2000 men (but thats - 2000 for Tyrell, +2000 for Baratheons = 4000 advantage), andif they defect to Robert, more houses might follow (Fossoways, Meadows etc)

this a fair assessment of the reason for marriage but there had to be other Women in the reach that were better suited. Selyse isn't even the Lord's Daughter, and the Florents didn't support Stannis anyway even with Selyse being married to him.  

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2 minutes ago, House Beaudreau said:

this a fair assessment of the reason for marriage but there had to be other Women in the reach that were better suited. Selyse isn't even the Lord's Daughter, and the Florents didn't support Stannis anyway even with Selyse being married to him.  

At the time of the marriage she may well have been the Lord's granddaughter. We also don't know who Selyse's mother was, she may have been a daughter of two significant Houses. 

 

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31 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

As far as Lords Paramount, there were few options. Sansa was an infant, Asha was 10, Cersei was married to Robert, Jon had no daughters, Margaery was 2, and Arianne was 10. So on to the next tier. And Jon Arryn really liked making marriage alliances, since three came out of Robert’s Rebellion. Though he could have tried with making an alliance with the Martells to tie them back to the realm.

It just seem like so many houses would have been jumping at the chance to marry into the Bartheons. Renly too, even. 

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1 hour ago, House Beaudreau said:

1. this a fair assessment of the reason for marriage but there had to be other Women in the reach that were better suited. 2. Selyse isn't even the Lord's Daughter, and 3. the Florents didn't support Stannis anyway even with Selyse being married to him.  

1. There might have been, but they might not have been keen or the dowry for Selyse might have bigger than usual

2. The position of a daughter/females in the family tree seems less important as they're usually at the back for inheritance, what you get is their breeding/family connection/goodwill. It might have been a favor to have her married off when she was a bit removed from the mainline.

3. They didn't support him when he had only 3,000 mean, a few islands and some ships. His cause seemed hopeless then. They were the first to jump ship as soon as Renly died. They also brought along other houses like Meadows, Crane, Fossoway etc. In a civil war where Robert Baratheon might have the forces of the Stormlands, Vale, North and Westerlands the Florents might be primed and ready to throw the Tyrells under the bus. 

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The Florents were apparently hot commodities in the day. Alester Florent married one daughter Melessa to Randyll Tarly (Sam was born in 283) and then daughter Rhea is the 4th wife of Leyton Hightower (no kids, no dates given). At this point, Alester is out of daughters. Niece Selyse (by brother Ryam Florent who is a knight) is married to Stannis, the King’s brother.

Alester has been accused of being ambitious and his activities point this way. Now I wonder at Robert’s knocking up Delana Florent and having Edric Storm wasn't so much an accident. Delana is also Alester’s niece and the last girl of that generation which Alester can pawn off.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Alester_Florent

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6 hours ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

The Florents have been low key rivals to the Tyrells since the conquest. They believe they have a greater claim to Highgarden by having more royal Gardener King's blood in their line. The Tyrells raised the Reach for the Targaryens in the rebellion, so a marriage to a powerful House of the Reach could undermine the Tyrells if they ever try to rise against the Baratheons.

This thought occurred to me too.

Also, it's not like the Florents were a minor prize. There were very few girls/women of marriageable age amongst the Lords Paramount, and so marrying into a second tier house such as the Florents makes sense. The Florents were very rich and very powerful, with an ancient lineage. It actually seems to be pretty common practice for powerful lords or their heirs to marry women of slightly lesser rank, as opposed to those of equal status. 

Stannis, while he had a claim, was also clearly out of favour with the king, and as Lord of Dragonstone not excessively rich or powerful. 

Still, all the gold of Casterly Rock wouldn't convince me to marriage Selyse, whatever her pedigree. 

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The short - Stannis married Selyse because Robert (read - Jon Arryn) - thought it a good idea. Stannis' duty is to obey the Head of the House - Robert.

Why Florent - a already said - gives House Baratheon (with shaky hold of throne) an "in" with the Reach. Creates a Florent-Tarly block around which opposition to Tyrell-Hihgtower-Redwyne can coalesce.

 

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29 minutes ago, Shouldve Taken The Black said:

 

Still, all the gold of Casterly Rock wouldn't convince me to marriage Selyse, whatever her pedigree. 

We have no idea what Selyse was like before she wed, a decade of marriage to Stannis has probably took its toll. 

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15 minutes ago, TMIFairy said:

Why Florent - a already said - gives House Baratheon (with shaky hold of throne) an "in" with the Reach. Creates a Florent-Tarly block around which opposition to Tyrell-Hihgtower-Redwyne can coalesce.

The Tarlys didn't seem to consider themselves part of this block though. Randall never showed any interest in supporting Stannis, and happily slaughtered the Florent foot at Bitterbridge. 

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Just now, Bernie Mac said:

We have no idea what Selyse was like before she wed, a decade of marriage to Stannis has probably took its toll.

Very good point. In fairness, it's not like he was a Maiden's Dream either, so we should probably wonder why we consider the idea of him marrying an unattractive woman so unbelievable, while Selyse marrying him such a joy for her.

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28 minutes ago, Shouldve Taken The Black said:

Very good point. In fairness, it's not like he was a Maiden's Dream either, so we should probably wonder why we consider the idea of him marrying an unattractive woman so unbelievable, while Selyse marrying him such a joy for her.

I don’t see that attractiveness should factor in at all, really. The safest assumption is that this was a political match, and thus no one (in universe) should care about something as trivial as looks or the party’s personal happiness 

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You are all forgetting something about Stannis. He is deeply uncomfortable around women in the series. Lady Glover, Asha, all his interactions with women (except Melisandre) indicate that Stannis has a difficult time talking to women, even when he’s accepting gratitude from Lady Glover on liberating her from the Ironborn. So to Stannis, would it really matter what kind of woman he marries? It’s just duty to him. He would have preferred not to marry at all, I think. He’s clearly a socially awkward asexual who is forced to produce children because of his sense of duty. So being married to any woman would be uncomfortable. And since Robert and Jon don’t care for him that much, might as well saddle him with the ugly Florent girl while Robert sleeps with the pretty one in Stannis’ wedding bed. It’s not like Stannis wants to use it anyway right?

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4 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said:

I don’t see that attractiveness should factor in at all, really. The safest assumption is that this was a political match, and thus no one (in universe) should care about something as trivial as looks or the party’s personal happiness 

Agreed on all that.

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3 minutes ago, Canon Claude said:

might as well saddle him with the ugly Florent girl while Robert sleeps with the pretty one in Stannis’ wedding bed. It’s not like Stannis wants to use it anyway right?

I have to say, I always thought of that as the most rock star move Robert made. Here's to him.

 

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