Angel Eyes

Why didn’t Jon Arryn think of sending Sweetrobin to the North?

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So Jon Arryn was thinking of where to send Sweetrobin for fostering and this is why he got poisoned. Why didn’t he e-raven Ned and ask him to foster Sweetrobin?

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1 - he heard reports of the sterling job Ned was doing with Theon [sarcasm];

2 - he was afraid that Catelyn would spoil her nephew instead of whipping him into shape;

3 - he was doing the groundwork for a Robert-Shireen match;

4 - too far

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The relation was too close to Lysa, Maybe he was afraid that Lysa would accompany Robin to WF with the excuse of visiting Cat and then never leave, thus defeating the purpose of fostering him in the first place.

 

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Although arranging a marriage with Shireen  is also a rational reason as well.

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1 hour ago, Angel Eyes said:

So Jon Arryn was thinking of where to send Sweetrobin for fostering and this is why he got poisoned. Why didn’t he e-raven Ned and ask him to foster Sweetrobin?

Fostering is a way to forge political alliances between houses. There was no real need to cement ties between the crown and Winterfell, since Ned is about as loyal a bannerman as you can get. But JA and Stannis were plotting to accuse the queen of infidelity and get Robert to disinherit her children, which is a risky gamble -- so a pact between these two anchored by Stannis gaining control over JA's only son and heir would ease Stannis' mind that JA would see it through, whatever the consequences.

Meanwhile, Cersei probably got wind of what the two of them were up to, so she pressured Robert into commanding that the boy be fostered at the Rock, which would effectively quash any talk of Joffrey not being the true heir. But then JA died before any of this could happen...

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32 minutes ago, John Suburbs said:

Fostering is a way to forge political alliances between houses. There was no real need to cement ties between the crown and Winterfell, since Ned is about as loyal a bannerman as you can get. But JA and Stannis were plotting to accuse the queen of infidelity and get Robert to disinherit her children, which is a risky gamble -- so a pact between these two anchored by Stannis gaining control over JA's only son and heir would ease Stannis' mind that JA would see it through, whatever the consequences.

Excellent point.

And regardless of whom they marry later, Shireen and Robert A. should be BFF. Like e.g. Robert B. and Ned were.

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He probably thought about it, all right, but at the end of the day, decided on Stan. He probably expected resistance from the lovely Lysa, and Dragonstone should be easier a pill to swallow for her. Dragonstone was a few days' trip, Winterfell half the world away.

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1 hour ago, TMIFairy said:

Excellent point.

And regardless of whom they marry later, Shireen and Robert A. should be BFF. Like e.g. Robert B. and Ned were.

Eh, I'm not so sure about that. Having seen both Sweetrobin and Shireen, I doubt very much that they would be best buds. At best, Shireen would take pity on him, but he's just too whiney and, well, damaged to make a good friend.

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Even if he considered it I doubt Lysa would've allowed her son to be fostered anywhere, least of all Winterfell with her sister. 

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Posted (edited)

31 minutes ago, Lady Jowana said:

Even if he considered it I doubt Lysa would've allowed her son to be fostered anywhere, least of all Winterfell with her sister. 

This is basically what got Jon murdered: Lysa didn't want him taking her baby away.

As for why not the North, lots of good points above, but I think also his intention was undo the damage Lysa had done, and Stannis is a solid choice for a tough love sort of environment over Ned, who was notoriously sympathetic to children. I doubt Ned or even Auntie Cat would have necessarily given into his whining or tantrums, but you can be certain that Stannis would never tolerate it for an instant--and there would be absolutely no solace from Selyse, either, if he went crying to her.

Edited by Therae

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3 hours ago, TMIFairy said:

Shireen and Robert A. s

She would consider him annoying brat.

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He likely considered it, but like others have mentioned it made more sense from several standpoints (alliance with Stannis, Stannis will toughen the child up, proximity to Lysa and KL).  Plus, it may have been safer for Robert to be on Dragonstone instead of with Bobby B's best friend in case Robert takes the incest accusation poorly and Jon and Stannis need to go into exile.

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Annoying brats - they are 6 or 8 years old ...

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Maybe there wasn't enough wet nurses in Winterfell at the time. Strong Robin is a hungry lad and needs his milk to grow strong.

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15 minutes ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

Maybe there wasn't enough wet nurses in Winterfell at the time. Strong Robin is a hungry lad and needs his milk to grow strong.

IMO you nailed it!

:D

 

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1 hour ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

Maybe there wasn't enough wet nurses in Winterfell at the time. Strong Robin is a hungry lad and needs his milk to grow strong.

well, there was Old Nan...

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Posted (edited)

...whatever his reason were, Winterfell would probably have been the better choice. Choose Stannis to "toughen him up" would at best have created another Sam (why not send Robin to Randyll Tarly?), and at worst been his death - the boy's not just "weak", but an epileptic, and Stannis telling him to stop clowning around would not have been the best way to handle a seizure... The Starks on the other hand are presented as the good guys with the most normal way of upbringing children.

Edited by Umber Jack

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15 minutes ago, Umber Jack said:

...whatever his reason were, Winterfell would probably have been the better choice. Choose Stannis to "toughen him up" would at best have created another Sam (why not send Robin to Randyll Tarly?), and at worst been his death - the boy's not just "weak", but an epileptic, and Stannis telling him to stop clowning around would not have been the best way to handle a seizure...

I feel really weird defending Stannis' character, but...

Stannis himself has a daughter inflicted by the grayscale. And his daughter is of the very few people in the entire world to whom Stannis isn't a complete, utter asshole. Stannis also isn't stupid, especially when compared to Lysa Arryn ("stop clowning around"? come on). So an assumption that he would mistreat Robert Arryn is unfair.

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Winterfell is at the end of the world, and really no place for Robert. Jon wasn't trying to make some bonds, he wanted to separate his son from his mother who was, in his opinion, no longer good for him. Dragonstone wasn't far away, and Stannis was on the fast track to the Iron Throne as Robert's heir presumptive - assuming they could convince him that the twincest was a thing. And a marriage between Shireen and Robert Arryn could eventually put an Arryn on the Iron Throne.

On 13.4.2018 at 8:12 PM, John Suburbs said:

Meanwhile, Cersei probably got wind of what the two of them were up to, so she pressured Robert into commanding that the boy be fostered at the Rock, which would effectively quash any talk of Joffrey not being the true heir. But then JA died before any of this could happen...

Cersei pushes Robert into the Casterly Rock idea only after Jon Arryn's death.

7 hours ago, Ferocious Veldt Roarer said:

Stannis himself has a daughter inflicted by the grayscale. And his daughter is of the very few people in the entire world to whom Stannis isn't a complete, utter asshole. Stannis also isn't stupid, especially when compared to Lysa Arryn ("stop clowning around"? come on). So an assumption that he would mistreat Robert Arryn is unfair.

Stannis never shows affection to Shireen in the books. That is the show. They never talk, and they never interact in any meaningful way. She is his only heir and thus the only successor he's got after he had Renly killed and forced Edric Storm into exile, but that he points that out in the sample chapter doesn't mean he likes or cares about his daughter as a person.

The only persons that are close to Shireen are Patches and Selyse. Stannis never spends any time with her. If he really cared about her she would be his page and attend his councils. She is already ten years old in 299 AC, and thus old enough to be groomed for her role as queen. But Stannis doesn't care about any of that.

That is more than enough evidence for me to not believe the idea that Stannis is particularly close to Shireen.

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I agree that Stannis in the books isn't a good, affectionate father to Shireen, but he's still far from being a monster like Randyll Tarly and while Stannis is one of my least favourite side-characters in the story, and I do find pretty much everything about him repulsive, I can't picture him actively humiliating or abusing Robin, like Randyll did with Sam. 
On the other hand, part of the reason for that is that I don't think Stannis could be bothered to interact much with his ward, he'd shove him off to Selyse and some tutor and call it a day while he goes back to thinking about how he "deserves" the ugly iron chair and how every single person in Westeros actively works to sleight him 24/7. They'd probably hardly ever meet, despite both living in Dragonstone.

Edited by Orphalesion

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