Generations - Not a Thing

[Tears of Lys]

7 hours ago, mankytoes said:

 

But that's why it's really sad when people stop getting into new music. You're kind of saying that your experiences and emotional development are over, and you're just going to wallow in nostalgia until you die. Being older is no reason not to make new experiences. 

 

Absolutely true.  I'm constantly trying to get my husband to get with the times!  He loves Roy Orbison, though, so I can't get too irritated.   

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

11 hours ago, Lany Freelove Cassandra said:

I became a grandmother at 43.

I got married at 19, had my daughter at 21.

She got married at 21, had her son at 22.

Now, nearly 10 years later, I'd say I'm middle aged, but not back then  

My husband is only 3 years older than me, but our points of view tend to be very different.  I saw some list that put me in with baby boomers (which I always resented) and some that put me as a gen Xer, which I also hated for some reason, and some that just kind of dropped me off (Dec 1964). Truth is though, I have more in common with Xers than I ever did with baby boomers. And that is a very gross generalization.

 

My mother was 23 when I was born my Dad 24.  I recently freaked my mother out when I point out that when I turned 46 last year I was as old as she was when I graduated from college.  All of her children have waited until their thirties to marry and have kids.  That means my kids were 14 and 10 when I was as old as my Mother was when I graduated college.  Ten years is a long time when talking about generational differences.

What is even stranger to me is that I have a first cousin three times removed who is ten years younger than me but who’s grand parents are my 71 year old father’s great grand parents.  The cousin’s father is the youngest sibling of my Father’s grandfather.  

Big families can have weird generational dynamics.

[Lany Freelove Cassandra]

1 hour ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

My mother was 23 when I was born my Dad 24.  I recently freaked my mother out when I point out that when I turned 46 last year I was as old as she was when I graduated from college.  All of her children have waited until their thirties to marry and have kids.  That means my kids were 14 and 10 when I was as old as my Mother was when I graduated college.  Ten years is a long time when talking about generational differences.

What is even stranger to me is that I have a third cousin who is ten years younger than me but who shares great-grand parents with my 71 year old father.  The cousin’s father is the youngest sibling of my Father’s grandfather.  

Big families can have weird generational dynamics.

Yep.  My father was 3rd youngest of 11 (13 really) children. His oldest sister (that he knew) was 17 yrs older than him. Her son, just 2 yrs younger than my dad...and his best friend. Although he was my 1st cousin we always called him "Uncle" growing up, as that seemed more appropriate.

And I have recently been talking to another 1st cousin, a son from my grandfather's first marriage (2 kids there) who is actually older than my dad. Since my grandfather was in his 50's when my dad was born I am finding a lot of the DNA matches from his father's side are 2 or even 3 generations further down the line than I am. (frustrating, since this is the line we know least about and a lot of the older ones, like my cousin Ted, are barely computer literate (mostly, I talk to his ex-wife).

How many people my age have a grandfather born in the 1800's? Or a great grandfather who fought in the civil war? On my mom's side, it was my 4th great-grandfather that fought in the civil war

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

11 hours ago, Lany Freelove Cassandra said:

I became a grandmother at 43.

I got married at 19, had my daughter at 21.

She got married at 21, had her son at 22.

Now, nearly 10 years later, I'd say I'm middle aged, but not back then  

My husband is only 3 years older than me, but our points of view tend to be very different.  I saw some list that put me in with baby boomers (which I always resented) and some that put me as a gen Xer, which I also hated for some reason, and some that just kind of dropped me off (Dec 1964). Truth is though, I have more in common with Xers than I ever did with baby boomers. And that is a very gross generalization.

 

Lol, you remind me of a friend who was born in 1981. He absolutely resents being called a Millennial, but then if you say, “Fine, you’re a Gen Xer” he will respond with “I’m not that old!” You can’t have your cake and eat it too when we’re discussing fraudulent generations.

[S John]

Just my take on it, but I think the reason people born in the 81-86 range often don’t like being lumped in with millennials is because millennial (to me anyway) has an implication of someone who grew up fully in the connected world.  Specifically with cell phones and internet access being a thing as long as one can remember.  

People born in the early-mid 80’s often have 10-15 years of life before the internet really came into the average home in a meaningful way, and possibly longer than that before they had a personal cell phone.  Say you were born in 84 and got your first personal cell phone at 18 in 2002.  You lived to adulthood without being able to be reached at any time anywhere.  Someone born ten years later, in 1994, would have been eight around the same time and probably has no meaningful recollection of pre-cell phone times or pre-internet times.  Technology isn’t the only factor in parsing these things, but when you think about the impact of cell phones and the internet on modern culture I think it’s an important footnote.

[Lany Freelove Cassandra]

40 minutes ago, S John said:

Just my take on it, but I think the reason people born in the 81-86 range often don’t like being lumped in with millennials is because millennial (to me anyway) has an implication of someone who grew up fully in the connected world.  Specifically with cell phones and internet access being a thing as long as one can remember.  

People born in the early-mid 80’s often have 10-15 years of life before the internet really came into the average home in a meaningful way, and possibly longer than that before they had a personal cell phone.  Say you were born in 84 and got your first personal cell phone at 18 in 2002.  You lived to adulthood without being able to be reached at any time anywhere.  Someone born ten years later, in 1994, would have been eight around the same time and probably has no meaningful recollection of pre-cell phone times or pre-internet times.  Technology isn’t the only factor in parsing these things, but when you think about the impact of cell phones and the internet on modern culture I think it’s an important footnote.

I can totally see that.  My daughter was born in '86 and we didn't have full internet until she was a teenager, and she didn't have a personal cell phone until she was 17, and that was just a flip phone. It's hard today to not think "smart phone" when "cell phone" is used, but man, they are worlds apart. (we did have dial up before then, but it was very expensive and she never used it)

[Larry of the Lawn]

1 hour ago, S John said:

Just my take on it, but I think the reason people born in the 81-86 range often don’t like being lumped in with millennials is because millennial (to me anyway) has an implication of someone who grew up fully in the connected world.  Specifically with cell phones and internet access being a thing as long as one can remember.  

People born in the early-mid 80’s often have 10-15 years of life before the internet really came into the average home in a meaningful way, and possibly longer than that before they had a personal cell phone.  Say you were born in 84 and got your first personal cell phone at 18 in 2002.  You lived to adulthood without being able to be reached at any time anywhere.  Someone born ten years later, in 1994, would have been eight around the same time and probably has no meaningful recollection of pre-cell phone times or pre-internet times.  Technology isn’t the only factor in parsing these things, but when you think about the impact of cell phones and the internet on modern culture I think it’s an important footnote.

^^^^This is literally my biggest gripe about the whole millennial label. Being lumped in with people who never had to use a pay phone, or ever had to just wait around for a ride without needing an update on my gps location every 3 minutes.  

My cousin (more like younger sibling, grew up in my house, etc) was born in 1992 and has had a cellphone since he was 13.  

 

 

[lokisnow]

3 hours ago, Lany Freelove Cassandra said:

 

How many people my age have a grandfather born in the 1800's? Or a great grandfather who fought in the civil war? On my mom's side, it was my 4th great-grandfather that fought in the civil war

around 1986 or so, my mom used a tape recorder to do interviews with her grandparents, particularly her grandfather, whose father fought in the local civil war battles, so she recorded a bunch of his hand-me-down civil war stories. However the stories that got retained and told were the most ghoulish ones, and thus possibly therefore the least based in fact and most embellished. Fun stuff like there was so much blood the soil was saturated, or it percolated into the local stream and turned it red, so when they were softening their hardtack to eat it was with a lovely water-human blood mixture.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

45 minutes ago, lokisnow said:

around 1986 or so, my mom used a tape recorder to do interviews with her grandparents, particularly her grandfather, whose father fought in the local civil war battles, so she recorded a bunch of his hand-me-down civil war stories. However the stories that got retained and told were the most ghoulish ones, and thus possibly therefore the least based in fact and most embellished. Fun stuff like there was so much blood the soil was saturated, or it percolated into the local stream and turned it red, so when they were softening their hardtack to eat it was with a lovely water-human blood mixture.

That would be fascinating to listen to.

I should have interviewed my Grandfather about his WW 2 experiences before he died but he really hated talking about it...

[Tears of Lys]

3 hours ago, S John said:

 Technology isn’t the only factor in parsing these things, but when you think about the impact of cell phones and the internet on modern culture I think it’s an important footnote.

Oh, hell, yes.  More than a footnote, to me at least.  I remember having to stop off at a freakin' pay phone on my way up to Los Angeles courts to find out if I was going to have to head to Torrance, LA, Long Beach, or Compton.  Major PITA.   And I used to have to wear a BEEPER when I worked in tech support.  Bleeeccchhhh.

Part of me really hates people being able to get to you anywhere, at any time, but a larger part of me loves the convenience.  (yes, I don't answer calls/texts/emails if I don't feel like it.  )

 

[S John]

3 hours ago, larrytheimp said:

^^^^This is literally my biggest gripe about the whole millennial label. Being lumped in with people who never had to use a pay phone, or ever had to just wait around for a ride without needing an update on my gps location every 3 minutes.  

My cousin (more like younger sibling, grew up in my house, etc) was born in 1992 and has had a cellphone since he was 13.  

 

 

Yep, one day you're sittin' around with with your fellow mid thirty-ish comrades reminiscing about flipping through card catalogs to write a paper in school and only being able to talk to people on the phone if they are physically at home, while having a side chuckle at younger folks buried in their phones for their entire lives and then - wham- the Washington Post comes out with some article declaring the start-date for millennialship at '81.    

Now I know how Hank Hill must have felt in that King of the Hill episode where he discovers that he was not born in Texas, but in New York City.  It's an affront to your very identity!

[Mlle. Zabzie]

1 hour ago, S John said:

Yep, one day you're sittin' around with with your fellow mid thirty-ish comrades reminiscing about flipping through card catalogs to write a paper in school and only being able to talk to people on the phone if they are physically at home, while having a side chuckle at younger folks buried in their phones for their entire lives and then - wham- the Washington Post comes out with some article declaring the start-date for millennialship at '81.    

Now I know how Hank Hill must have felt in that King of the Hill episode where he discovers that he was not born in Texas, but in New York City.  It's an affront to your very identity!

Which is why generations = not a thing!!!  I'm I guess in X, but I've had a computer and access to at least bulletin boards for most of my conscious life.  I grew up with a dad in tech who is an early adopter.  I mean, I remember getting a computer with a mouse, and colored screens, and using dos (and also having a pine email account) BUT it's not like I'm that different from a person born in 1981 or 1983 or 1985 in terms of how tech has impacted my life.  NOT A THING.

[mankytoes]

 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

7 hours ago, S John said:

Just my take on it, but I think the reason people born in the 81-86 range often don’t like being lumped in with millennials is because millennial (to me anyway) has an implication of someone who grew up fully in the connected world.  Specifically with cell phones and internet access being a thing as long as one can remember.  

Yeah I think there's a lot of truth in this. I was born in the late 80's and tech has always been a part of my life. Both my parents have graduate degrees and were really into tech. I'm pretty sure I had a computer in my house with internet action by the time I was 5. If first grade we learned how to write in cursive. In the second grade they said nuts to that and bought a computer lab. Thus, my hand writing has always been trash. Flip phones were common when I was in 9th grade. And on and on. I can see how that would separate early Millennial from the rest of their cohort. 

Also, I can't imagine writing a college thesis before computers were a thing. It sounds horrifying.  

[Mlle. Zabzie]

19 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Yeah I think there's a lot of truth in this. I was born in the late 80's and tech has always been a part of my life. Both my parents have graduate degrees and were really into tech. I'm pretty sure I had a computer in my house with internet action by the time I was 5. If first grade we learned how to write in cursive. In the second grade they said nuts to that and bought a computer lab. Thus, my hand writing has always been trash. Flip phones were common when I was in 9th grade. And on and on. I can see how that would separate early Millennial from the rest of their cohort. 

Also, I can't imagine writing a college thesis before computers were a thing. It sounds horrifying.  

So, I had laptops all the way through college and law school (late 90s early aughts).  I 100% did all my writing on a computer (though we still handed in hard copy).  Also, did all my writing in high school on a computer (mid 1990s).  My older sister had a word processor her first year of college and then a computer (mid/late 80s).  She had to go to the computer lab to print though.  The big difference for me was that in college, up until senior year, no phone (though we used AIM on our computers - how quaint).  Senior year I had a phone, but only really for emergencies.  The very next year, phone plans had become ubiquitous and affordable enough for a student, so I got my first cell phone of my own (flip phone).  I had my first blackberry 4 years later.

[Jo498]

But there clearly is a difference if something (personal computer, laptop, cell phone) is taken for granted by most of a cohort or not. An outlier because parents are "early adopters" in no way disproves that fact. It is still usually true that

"born in the 60s" means "grew up without computers, typed at least one school paper still on a typewriter"

"born in the 70s": encountered computers to some extent as teenager, remembers internet being new/rare/restricted to tech firms and universities, remembers cellphones being expensive toys of posh people etc.

"born in the 90s": cannot consciously remember time before widespread laptops, internet, cellphones

and similarly for different kinds of stuff (e.g. vinyl records), including social mores (where it gets more interesting sociologically, I suppose).

The existence of "grey cases" and the impossibility to draw exact lines does not imply that extremes or even just "typical cases" are useless.

[Larry of the Lawn]

23 minutes ago, Jo498 said:

But there clearly is a difference if something (personal computer, laptop, cell phone) is taken for granted by most of a cohort or not. An outlier because parents are "early adopters" in no way disproves that fact. It is still usually true that

"born in the 60s" means "grew up without computers, typed at least one school paper still on a typewriter"

"born in the 70s": encountered computers to some extent as teenager, remembers internet being new/rare/restricted to tech firms and universities, remembers cellphones being expensive toys of posh people etc.

"born in the 90s": cannot consciously remember time before widespread laptops, internet, cellphones

and similarly for different kinds of stuff (e.g. vinyl records), including social mores (where it gets more interesting sociologically, I suppose).

The existence of "grey cases" and the impossibility to draw exact lines does not imply that extremes or even just "typical cases" are useless.

Re: bolded

Well said.

Noticed you avoided the almost certainly contentious description of those born in the 80s.  Maybe they had a computer or cellphone, but likely lived without for sometime of adolescence and early adulthood.

[maarsen]

21 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Yeah I think there's a lot of truth in this. I was born in the late 80's and tech has always been a part of my life. Both my parents have graduate degrees and were really into tech. I'm pretty sure I had a computer in my house with internet action by the time I was 5. If first grade we learned how to write in cursive. In the second grade they said nuts to that and bought a computer lab. Thus, my hand writing has always been trash. Flip phones were common when I was in 9th grade. And on and on. I can see how that would separate early Millennial from the rest of their cohort. 

Also, I can't imagine writing a college thesis before computers were a thing. It sounds horrifying.  

Really? Imagine a college thesis before typewriters became cheap. Which coincidentally was right around the time computers became cheap.

[Yukle]

2 hours ago, Jo498 said:

"born in the 60s" means "grew up without computers, typed at least one school paper still on a typewriter"

"born in the 70s": encountered computers to some extent as teenager, remembers internet being new/rare/restricted to tech firms and universities, remembers cellphones being expensive toys of posh people etc.

"born in the 90s": cannot consciously remember time before widespread laptops, internet, cellphones

"born in the 80s": Literally the best people to have ever lived, perfect in every way, the world's first flawless generation of overachievers.

Speaking from experience. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

4 hours ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

So, I had laptops all the way through college and law school (late 90s early aughts).  I 100% did all my writing on a computer (though we still handed in hard copy).  Also, did all my writing in high school on a computer (mid 1990s).  My older sister had a word processor her first year of college and then a computer (mid/late 80s).  She had to go to the computer lab to print though.  The big difference for me was that in college, up until senior year, no phone (though we used AIM on our computers - how quaint).  Senior year I had a phone, but only really for emergencies.  The very next year, phone plans had become ubiquitous and affordable enough for a student, so I got my first cell phone of my own (flip phone).  I had my first blackberry 4 years later.

I miss that thing! I also had it's knockoff, The Blackjack, but sadly I lost it in Cancun during freshman year spring break. It's actually one of the wildest tales you could ever hear. I once told it at a comedy club during open mic. I made no attempts to make jokes or embellish anything.

The room was roaring with laughter. I simply call it "Pirate Ships."