Great council after everything ends

[Dorian Martell's son]

11 hours ago, Kandrax said:

Who cares? Boros will eat him.

No, boros is being warged by bloodraven. He is going to save Tommen's life. Tommen is a secret targ, the last of Rhaegar's secret children 

[Corvo the Crow]

On 22.04.2018 at 2:55 AM, Bernie Mac said:

Which nobles? Which ones who loved Jon?

Some hill clansmen, Flint and Norrey if I recall.

 

On 22.04.2018 at 2:55 AM, Bernie Mac said:

what is the point in lords getting their own vote is if, as this post suggests, they all just pick who their Overlord wants?

Do they get a pick though? We know from TPatQ of the Northerners, Lords Stark, Dustin and Manderly got a vote on the matter, not say, Boltons or Ryswells. So it seems only top lords in a region get to give a vote or maybe only a lord passing a certain threshold of power/wealth whatever.

As for NW vows, I doubt they would care that much with the current situation. They want a Stark in Winterfell as seen with Bran and the Liddle man, not only they may make an exception if Jon wants Winterfell, they may even actively support him. Perhaps Even more so if he, a Northerner, Stark and Ned's son wants IT.

[Myrish Lace]

On 4/21/2018 at 0:19 PM, Dead headofMaelysKinslayer said:

Two candidates left: Jon Snow, Targaryen bastard and Edric Storm, Baratheon bastard. Who wins?

Neither. Neither Edric nor Jon have anything to offer their potential bannermen across Westeros. Jon may have some Northern and Edric - some Stormland clout, but Houses from other regions have no benefit from either of them. There won't be a united Kigdom, everyone picks their own little local King and goes home.

[Shouldve Taken The Black]

4 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

We know from TPatQ of the Northerners, Lords Stark, Dustin and Manderly got a vote on the matter, not say, Boltons or Ryswells. So it seems only top lords in a region get to give a vote or maybe only a lord passing a certain threshold of power/wealth whatever.

I took that to mean that they were the most notable Northern lords in attendance at the Great Council, rather than the only ones. 

I don't really know how there could be criteria drawn up for which houses could or could not attend. That in itself would be a thorny political issue. While certain houses are more powerful than others, there's no formal ranking beyond Lords Paramount and The Rest. 

[Leo of House Cartel]

But what if the great council is held at the iced-over remains of Harrenhal, with the assembled voters made up of wights and walkers?

[Corvo the Crow]

2 minutes ago, Leo of House Cartel said:

But what if the great council is held at the iced-over remains of Harrenhal, with the assembled voters made up of wights and walkers?

(f)Aemon

[Leo of House Cartel]

2 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

(f)Aemon

[Bernie Mac]

10 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Some hill clansmen, Flint and Norrey if I recall.

right, but they didn't come to the wedding because they loved Jon (or because they hate him for that matter) but because they were alarmed with the wildlings being settled in the north. 

For that much Jon was grateful … but he did not believe for a moment that two such hoary old warriors would have hied down from their hills for that alone. Each had brought a tail of fighting men—five for Old Flint, twelve for The Norrey, all clad in ragged skins and studded leathers, fearsome as the face of winter. 

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"Lord Snow," said The Norrey, "where do you mean to put these wildlings o' yours? Not on my lands, I hope."

"Aye," declared Old Flint. "You want them in the Gift, that's your folly, but see they don't wander off or I'll send you back their heads. Winter is nigh, I want no more mouths to feed."

Quote

 

Do they get a pick though? We know from TPatQ of the Northerners, Lords Stark, Dustin and Manderly got a vote on the matter, not say, Boltons or Ryswells.

yes, that is the entire point of the great council. 

Jaehaerys called the first Great Council in the year 101 AC, to put the matter before the lords of the realm. And from all corners of the realm the lords came. No castle could hold so many save for Harrenhal, so it was there that they gathered. The lords, great and small, came with their trains of bannermen, knights, squires, grooms, and servants. And behind them came yet more—the camp followers and washerwomen, the hawkers and smiths and carters. Thousands of tents sprang up over the moons, until the castle town of Harrenton was accounted the fourth largest city of the Realm.

all the lords get their vote, now obviously some overlords will have more sway over their vassals than others, but all 'lords' seem to get a vote. 

Quote

 

As for NW vows, I doubt they would care that much with the current situation.

some may not, others would do given how important it is taken, when we know the likes of a former lord ryswell who saw his son executed rather than allow him sanctuary when he and others, seventy-nine sentinels, broke their vows

 

[Corvo the Crow]

9 hours ago, Bernie Mac said:

right, but they didn't come to the wedding because they loved Jon (or because they hate him for that matter) but because they were alarmed with the wildlings being settled in the north. 

If they were concerned so much about wildlings, perhaps they should have sent 3000 men to Watch when they asked and not with Stannis who allowed them through.

As for the council, I find it rather curious that all gets to vote. Wonder how it works; Does Baelish's vote  has the same value as Hightower's? One is the smallest lord possible and the other is the biggest vassal lord.

[Ylath's Snout]

43 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

As for the council, I find it rather curious that all gets to vote. Wonder how it works; Does Baelish's vote  has the same value as Hightower's? One is the smallest lord possible and the other is the biggest vassal lord

I could see nobles of different rank having different number of votes. The different regions could get votes depending on who has "won" military.

[Shouldve Taken The Black]

2 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

As for the council, I find it rather curious that all gets to vote. Wonder how it works; Does Baelish's vote  has the same value as Hightower's? One is the smallest lord possible and the other is the biggest vassal lord.

The precedent is Jaehaerys's council, which seemed to be a kind of advisory body. The final decision was down to him, but the vote was so overwhelming in one direction that how they were counted wasn't an issue. 

The council that chose Aegon was different, as there was a genuine succession crisis, but my guess is that Bloodraven would have had everything pretty stitched up. 

I can't see it happening any other way than every lord having equal weight. I don't see how else you could do it. Would you weight it based on wealth? Army size? Number of vassal knights? Tracts of land? Lineage? Who decides how it is weighted?

The benefit of a Great Council is that lords are less likely to go to war over a decision they feel a part of. That wouldn't work if a whole swathe of lords had their noses put out of joint by being told they weren't as important as their neighbours. 

 

[Corvo the Crow]

38 minutes ago, Shouldve Taken The Black said:

The precedent is Jaehaerys's council, which seemed to be a kind of advisory body. The final decision was down to him, but the vote was so overwhelming in one direction that how they were counted wasn't an issue. 

The council that chose Aegon was different, as there was a genuine succession crisis, but my guess is that Bloodraven would have had everything pretty stitched up. 

I can't see it happening any other way than every lord having equal weight. I don't see how else you could do it. Would you weight it based on wealth? Army size? Number of vassal knights? Tracts of land? Lineage? Who decides how it is weighted?

The benefit of a Great Council is that lords are less likely to go to war over a decision they feel a part of. That wouldn't work if a whole swathe of lords had their noses put out of joint by being told they weren't as important as their neighbours. 

 

Perhaps, but then a lord paramount can go making little fingers around the region so he can sway the votes. Doesn't need to lose the lands either, he can simply grant it all the old men with no living (male) children.

Hell he may even partition towns to several lords as is the case with Saltpans, Gulltown and even Lannisport.

[Shouldve Taken The Black]

7 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Perhaps, but then a lord paramount can go making little fingers around the region so he can sway the votes. Doesn't need to lose the lands either, he can simply grant it all the old men with no living (male) children.

I would imagine the Lords paramount would have great sway over their own bannermen anyway. I couldn't imagine a lord like Tywin letting his vassals vote with their feels, and you'd expect the Starks to have a lot of weight with the northern lords.

Still, it would be a bit overkill to simply create lords just to garner a few extra votes. Also, I may be wrong but I think new lords would at least need rubber stamping by the Iron Throne. 

[Faera]

On 21/04/2018 at 11:19 AM, Dead headofMaelysKinslayer said:

Two candidates left: Jon Snow, Targaryen bastard and Edric Storm, Baratheon bastard. Who wins?

Depends whether either of them was pivotal to securing the throne so that this council could meet to decide on the next king.

If we go strictly by who has the best claim, then Edric Storm makes more sense. He is the acknowledged bastard of Robert Baratheon who won the throne by right of conquest, beating the Targaryans to get it. The only way any Targ, legitimate or not, is getting the throne back is by winning it back. Unless Jon Snow was instrumental in taking the throne and securing it, he has no claim whatsoever. Even if he did, publically he would probably claim it in the name of the Starks over the Targaryans since his only connection to the Targs is who his father was, or might have been, given there is no way to prove it unless there's an authorised record confirming Jon'a parentage. 

Even if everyone knew Jon's dad was Rhaegar and that Jon had helped secure the throne so that the council could meet to pick the next monarch... I really don't see Jon wanting to be king -- so he'd probably pull an Aemon. "Thanks but no thanks. Legitimised as Edric Storm as  Edric Baratheon and let him be king. I'm going back North. Peace out!"

[Ylath's Snout]

14 minutes ago, Faera said:

I really don't see Jon wanting to be king

But that is like "One-in-a-Million gambles work every time" Jon is pretty much a lock for kingship with that argument.