The Frey civil war.

[Dorian Martell's son]

9 hours ago, Euron Lannister said:

the lord paramount is petyr baelish, not walder, and the whole civil war theory/speculation is based on the question of whom would inherit the twins after he dies.

You are correct. The freys do have riverrun, which is symbolic. Either way, I do not think there will be all out open war between Frey factions. Intrigue and some assassinations? Yes. Especially after Walder dies 

9 hours ago, Euron Lannister said:

Yes it does, but the story also has been building up Robb Stark winning the wot5k, which didn't happen.

That was subverting a specific, well established and common fantasy trope of the green son rising up to avenge his murdered father and maturing along the way. Is there a trope that the frey civil war could subvert?  

9 hours ago, Euron Lannister said:

i'm actually not sure if the wall will ever fall, although it's likely.

The wall falling has been setup in the very beginning. why would it be there if it would stay up the whole story and prevent the others from invading? 

9 hours ago, Euron Lannister said:

because i have the time

That's good for you, but I have already wasted a couple of  hours I won't ever get back. 

9 hours ago, Euron Lannister said:

and i think als this bashing of theorists (especially PJ) isn't worth it, he has his opinion, you have yours and until TWOW is out no one (except for george) knows who is right and who is wrong. and at least he doesn't publish fAegon Blackfyre theory nr 600 or the 7th version of Bolt-On

I would love a legit predictive analysis of the story, but there is a huge difference between that and fan fic. PJ's videos are more akin to what he wants the story to be as opposed to where he thinks it might be going. That is Fan fic 

9 hours ago, Euron Lannister said:

i think a little bit of boltness is needed to make a theory thats worth watching/reading cause otherwise it would be a simple a+=c theory which everyone can guess on its own

I am not sure what boltness is but from the way you have used it it seems to mean baseless speculation 

9 hours ago, Euron Lannister said:

i doubt this, a video/spoken theory can analyzed line by line as well, maybe even better, because you can't put typos into spoken word.

you check for Typos if your theories are worth anything and you don't have to fast forward or rewind. 

9 hours ago, Euron Lannister said:

and after all its imo the better medium to produce and consumate theories.

Well, you are entitled to your opinion even if it's wrong

9 hours ago, Euron Lannister said:

btw.: have you watched this video?

I don't need to. 

[Dorian Martell's son]

5 hours ago, Kandrax said:

Baby Tywin did nothing wrong.

and he still got an arrow in the poop sack 

[Kandrax]

2 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

and he still got an arrow in the poop sack 

I meant this one.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Tywin_Frey_(son_of_Raymund)

[Shouldve Taken The Black]

16 hours ago, Euron Lannister said:

the question is, what is his intention. if he would end the chaos in the riverlands he would end up as the strongest lord in all of the seven kingdoms, because he would control two stable provinces, so no chaos would be needed there, but only if his intention grabbing power or if he wants to place sansa somewhere, cause as a half tully and quater whent the riverlands are the best place to get support for whatever he plans with her.

He doesn't want to be administering two peaceful provinces though. His aim is to complete chaos.

And he doesn't need Sansa to claim the Riverlands. If his aim was to rule the Riverlands, he could pack up and move into Harrenhal straight away. 

16 hours ago, Euron Lannister said:

he was master of coin at that time, that should hve been enough i thin

Littlefinger didn't think so. When he proposed the idea he specifically pointed out how his lordship of Harrenhal made the match possible. As did Tyrion.

16 hours ago, Euron Lannister said:

the LD are silent for now, and maybe bellmore switched sites, but i think they are still a threat to him.

his rule over the vale is also supposed to end in less than a year iirc

Yes, but Littlefinger has already pointed out what will happen in a year and

Spoiler

In Winds we see him on a long way to achieving it

The Lords Declarant are no longer a thing. Only Bronze Yohn remains an enemy.

16 hours ago, Euron Lannister said:

as Lord of Vale and Riverlands he always has the power of the one province to stop the other one from betraying him, at least for some time

That's not really how it works. He can't simply order the army of one kingdom to invade another every time there's a falling out. 

[Shouldve Taken The Black]

3 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

I am not sure what boltness is

I don't know why, it's a perfectly cromulent word. 

[Euron Lannister]

6 hours ago, Shouldve Taken The Black said:

And he doesn't need Sansa to claim the Riverlands.

you misunderstood, i said if he wants to place sansa somewhere, the riverlands are helpful

6 hours ago, Shouldve Taken The Black said:

Littlefinger didn't think so. When he proposed the idea he specifically pointed out how his lordship of Harrenhal made the match possible. As did Tyrion.

you know that littlefinger doesn't always tell the truth? and tyrion isn't the smartes guy in the seven kingdoms.

he could have easily married lysa without, he wants harrenhal and the riverlands for an other reason

6 hours ago, Shouldve Taken The Black said:

The Lords Declarant are no longer a thing. Only Bronze Yohn remains an enemy.

i think you underestimate bronze yohn and his influence, or i overestimate him

but until Twow is out i don't trust anya waynwood, harry the arse and nestor royce

10 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

hat was subverting a specific, well established and common fantasy trope of the green son rising up to avenge his murdered father and maturing along the way. Is there a trope that the frey civil war could subvert? 

well this was about the wall, and that the wall that divides the county is taken down is pretty much established in modern literature.

10 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

why would it be there if it would stay up the whole story and prevent the others from invading? 

because the others could find an other way to invade.

iirc there are rumors about tunnels beneath it

also the others as an overall evil isn't really what george would write about

10 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

I would love a legit predictive analysis of the story, but there is a huge difference between that and fan fic. PJ's videos are more akin to what he wants the story to be as opposed to where he thinks it might be going. That is Fan fic 

every theory is fanfic and besides that i highly doubt pj only says what he wants to happen. give me one single example

10 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

I am not sure what boltness is but from the way you have used it it seems to mean baseless speculation

well no, literature isn't math, there are always unknown variables, so some points have to be speculated, and there is almost no theory out there without some speculative points in it.

but it seems like im talking to a wall (but this one hopefully goes down when twow arrives, i bet there is at least one PJ theory that is almost completely right )

10 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

I don't need to.

well this is a thread about the content of this video and if you post here and speak about it, you should watch it

[Shouldve Taken The Black]

12 minutes ago, Euron Lannister said:

you know that littlefinger doesn't always tell the truth? and tyrion isn't the smartes guy in the seven kingdoms.

he could have easily married lysa without, he wants harrenhal and the riverlands for an other reason

It's not a question of his honesty. He needed a great seat to make the match plausible. Without it, too much opposition would have been raised. Maybe he could have got away with it anyway, but becoming Lord Protector of the Vale after receiving one of the highest titles in the kingdoms is much easier.

Remember, he didn't just have to convince Lysa or the Vale lords, he had to convince Tywin that his plan would work.

15 minutes ago, Euron Lannister said:

i think you underestimate bronze yohn and his influence, or i overestimate him

I'm afraid it's the latter:

Spoiler

By the time of the Alayne chapter in Winds, Royce is completely isolated. 

LF sets out to Sansa exactly how he was going to deal with the Lords Declarant. And we saw how easily he outflanked Royce in his meeting with all of them in AFFC. 

[Frey Kings]

The Kings of the Crossing will sit on the Iron Throne

 

 

[Euron Lannister]

2 hours ago, Shouldve Taken The Black said:

hidden contents

Spoiler

he seems to be isolated that is true, but i still think he has at least Anya waynwood, who for now acts like she would left him. and i could imagine him and nestor being closer than we are supposed to think, they are kin after all, and nestor might have enough information to figure outwho alayne really is, especially since 'alayne' knew eddard stark's bastard and din't gave a shit about the new high septon while talking to nestor's daughter.

 

[Shouldve Taken The Black]

2 minutes ago, Euron Lannister said:

  Hide contents

he seems to be isolated that is true, but i still think he has at least Anya waynwood, who for now acts like she would left him. and i could imagine him and nestor being closer than we are supposed to think, they are kin after all, and nestor might have enough information to figure outwho alayne really is, especially since 'alayne' knew eddard stark's bastard and din't gave a shit about the new high septon while talking to nestor's daughter.

 

Littlefinger bought the Waynwood debt. Nestor Royce is bought and paid for. Nestor's daughter may cause problems, but I think her machinations will be aimed at Sansa not Littlefinger

Bronze Yohn is not a trifle to deal with, but he's not a grand schemer either.

[aryagonnakill#2]

I don't think there will be a Frey civil war.  I think all the Freys will be killed, Walder last.  Both scenarios have been foreshadowed a bit, but it is possible the civil war angle will only play out with a few assassinations/misdirection's.  We already got Little Walder killing Big Walder up north, or vice versa I can't remember, and it is possible that Black Walder will do something interesting.

[Dorian Martell's son]

12 hours ago, Kandrax said:

I meant this one.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Tywin_Frey_(son_of_Raymund)

nobody cares about him 

[Dorian Martell's son]

10 hours ago, Shouldve Taken The Black said:

I don't know why, it's a perfectly cromulent word. 

thread win

[Dorian Martell's son]

3 hours ago, Euron Lannister said:

well this was about the wall, and that the wall that divides the county is taken down is pretty much established in modern literature.

I doubt it. Give me an example. History? Yes. there was that whole berlin wall thing. 

3 hours ago, Euron Lannister said:

because the others could find another way to invade.

iirc there are rumors about tunnels beneath it

Rumors. Got it. 

4 hours ago, Euron Lannister said:

also the others as an overall evil isn't really what george would write about

The Others are literally the first the enemy we are introduced to. They are the big bad. 

4 hours ago, Euron Lannister said:

every theory is fanfic and besides that i highly doubt pj only says what he wants to happen. give me one single example

His dornish master plan video

4 hours ago, Euron Lannister said:

well no, literature isn't math, there are always unknown variables, so some points have to be speculated, and there is almost no theory out there without some speculative points in it.

Yes, and when presented as text, where points can be bulleted and gone over one by one the proverbial wheat can be separated from the chaff. All theories are speculation, but some are completely baseless ie having no connection to the subject. 

4 hours ago, Euron Lannister said:

but it seems like i'm talking to a wall (but this one hopefully goes down when twow arrives, i bet there is at least one PJ theory that is almost completely right )

Yes, a wall with a strong foundation based in the published text, as opposed to a sheet based on theories that are not really based in the book.

4 hours ago, Euron Lannister said:

well this is a thread about the content of this video and if you post here and speak about it, you should watch it

So I did on break, and again, there are way too many leaps in the video to even begin to deconstruct it. 

[Euron Lannister]

20 minutes ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

I doubt it. Give me an example. History? Yes. there was that whole berlin wall thing.

and every big wall in every fictional story, in which one exists

21 minutes ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

Rumors. Got it.

Rumors among the wildlings iirc, its been a long time since i read the beyond the wall chapters

22 minutes ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

The Others are literally the first the enemy we are introduced to. They are the big bad.

there is no big bad, that goes against everything george stands for

22 minutes ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

His dornish master plan video

which one?

23 minutes ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

Yes, and when presented as text, where points can be bulleted and gone over one by one the proverbial wheat can be separated from the chaff.

that has nothing to do with the medium

23 minutes ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

All theories are speculation, but some are completely baseless ie having no connection to the subject. 

depends of the definition. but none of prestons work is baseless, some are far fatched, but everything has a base.

25 minutes ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

So I did on break, and again, there are way too many leaps in the video to even begin to deconstruct it. 

tel me wich exactly

[Kandrax]

5 hours ago, Euron Lannister said:

also the others as an overall evil isn't really what george would write about

Still some humans are.

 

1 hour ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

I think all the Freys will be killed

It's impossible for Brotherhood to kill all of them, and don't think they will kill children. 

 

18 minutes ago, Euron Lannister said:

there is no big bad, that goes against everything george stands for

True, there are multiple characters that share title.

[Euron Lannister]

54 minutes ago, Kandrax said:

Still some humans are.

true some humans are very evil, but george would never create a people/race/species and lable them entirely as the overall evil

[Dorian Martell's son]

1 hour ago, Euron Lannister said:

and every big wall in every fictional story, in which one exists

So you can't even find one. Got it. 

1 hour ago, Euron Lannister said:

Rumors among the wildlings iirc, its been a long time since i read the beyond the wall chapters

and rumors are why they still climb 700 feet of vertical ice 

1 hour ago, Euron Lannister said:

there is no big bad, that goes against everything george stands for

except for the one big bad that is immune to iron and steel and bronze, brings the cold with it, raises the dead to fight for them and was only defeated 8000 years ago by a hero making an extremely difficult and challenging quest where everyone in his party dies to find other magical beings and learn their secrets to fight the ice demons. I guess your definition of big bad is unique

1 hour ago, Euron Lannister said:

which one?

christ he did more than one? 

1 hour ago, Euron Lannister said:

that has nothing to do with the medium

It has everything to do with the medium. Well, maybe you went to a "special" school where they let you make videos instead of writing papers in history class but again, like your big bad definition, your education is "unique"

1 hour ago, Euron Lannister said:

depends of the definition. but none of prestons work is baseless, some are far fatched, but everything has a base.

 The line between far fetched and baseless is almost always too blurry to see

1 hour ago, Euron Lannister said:

tel me wich exactly

Everything involving the vale suddenly seeing an interest in the twins and going to war to secure them. so far, there has been nothing in the books to even hint at that. Instead, he talks about where he would like the story to go 

[Deepbollywood Motte]

16 minutes ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

Everything involving the vale suddenly seeing an interest in the twins and going to war to secure them. so far, there has been nothing in the books to even hint at that. Instead, he talks about where he would like the story to go 

This is for me the biggest hole in the theory, I like PJ and his ramblings from time to time but I really can't see the Vale invading over something as random as a Frey Intra-family struggle. Whoever is your grandparent isn't always important, the Estermonts don't really seem to care about either Stannis or Renly (or Joffrey) and I don't see the other houses protecting some right of a secondary member of their family who was married off years before in another region.

Anyway, I got my flag up for Black Walder, Lord of the Crossing

[Euron Lannister]

58 minutes ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

and rumors are why they still climb 700 feet of vertical ice

them knowing nothing about the whereabouts of the tunnels doesn't mean the others also know nothing

59 minutes ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

except for the one big bad that is immune to iron and steel and bronze, brings the cold with it, raises the dead to fight for them and was only defeated 8000 years ago by a hero making an extremely difficult and challenging quest where everyone in his party dies to find other magical beings and learn their secrets to fight the ice demons. I guess your definition of big bad is unique

they are not the big bad villian, you seem to have no clue about george and his works if you really belive in something like this is written by him.

1 hour ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

christ he did more than one?

so you don't hae any clue about him and his work and you are just blind hating, got it.

1 hour ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

It has everything to do with the medium. Well, maybe you went to a "special" school where they let you make videos instead of writing papers in history class but again, like your big bad definition, your education is "unique"

well i am able to listen to things, maybe that what you would consider unique.

otherwise i can not see how you make such a great difference between written and spoken text.

1 hour ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

The line between far fetched and baseless is almost always too blurry to see

no, its not.

assuming jaqem wanted to kill bloodraven, because he traveled north, with two brutal killing mashines, was likely on a mission by the hobaw and later went to oldtown where marwyn has a glasscandle. is far fetched but has a base.

assuming the others are an overall evil force is baseless

1 hour ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

Everything involving the vale suddenly seeing an interest in the twins and going to war to secure them. so far, there has been nothing in the books to even hint at that.

you mean nothing besides having the same overlord, clearly divided frey faction of which one has strong connections to house waynwood, through marriage and wards, and to house hunter due to their maester.