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Separating The Art From The Artist


mankytoes

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Morrissey has been at it again, being all controversial and supporting one of the many right wing parties that pops up (and quickly dies away) in British politics- http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-43809312

I'm sure I'm not the only Smiths fan on here, and I don't think many people are going to stop listening to them. For me, it's hard not to see the Morrissey of interviews as a kind of character, a performance, he's so consistently ridiculous. 

Is it ok to like Chris Brown? What about John Lennon, who not only hit women, but wrote the catchy but lyrically horrible "Run For Your Life" about threatening to murder a girl if she strayed from him? Does it matter if domestic violence happened fifty years ago? What about people like Jimmy Page and their questionable flexibility with the age of consent? 

Surely there has to be a line, but I can't think of any artist I won't listen to because of their views or actions. I do feel like I've stopped enjoying Guns N Roses since I learnt more about Axl, but that's more because he's a complete bellend than any great moral reasoning.

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There is no such thing as a perfect human being, and artists are human beings.

Personally I have vowed never to read anything by Marion Zimmer Bradley again because of her horrific abuse of her own children. But that's mostly because I can't stop thinking about that when I try to read her stuff, not because I think it is immoral for someone to read it, and I would never criticize someone who still reads her works and finds them of artistic value.

I think a good case could be made in some instances for not purchasing new works by an artist when that could be seen as financially supporting reprehensible beliefs and behaviors. But I don't think it's wrong to read, view, or listen to art when doing so doesn't involve direct support of the evil opinions or actions of the artist. 

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6 minutes ago, Pony Empress Jace said:

I have to admit I consolidate the misogyny and homophobia in a lot of my Hip Hop consumption. 

If Eminem is gleeful about it, NWA makes extremely hateful remarks seem almost casual.



That's almost the other way around though because there's a fair amount of evidence that Eminem in real life isn't homophobic or sexist at all but that kind of language is embedded in the genre to a large extent.

 

 

15 minutes ago, Errant Bard said:

If the artist is not a mere interpret but a composer, isn't what he is going to seep into his creation?

Not necessarily.

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4 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said:

I believe all the proceeds from any MZB work go to a charity now.

At least one of her publishers (Gollancz) has said it will donate all of its income from her works to charity. Several people who were co-authors with her, or who had stories published in anthologies under her name, say they will donate their royalties from such works to charity. But I do not think that legally her own personal royalties can be diverted away from her estate. 

Her copyrights are held by the Marion Zimmer Bradley Literary Works trust, and it is believed that the income from that goes primarily to Elisabeth Waters, who along with the Merola Opera Program was the main beneficiary of her will.

https://fanlore.org/wiki/Marion_Zimmer_Bradley_Literary_Works_Trust

http://merola.org/donors

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3 minutes ago, polishgenius said:



That's almost the other way around though because there's a fair amount of evidence that Eminem in real life isn't homophobic or sexist at all but that kind of language is embedded in the genre to a large extent.

 

Yeah, if we actually want to get into it I do find it easy to remind myself that Marshal Mathers actually seems like a guy you wouldn't mind hanging out with for an afternoon (if he's not being weird and all strung out). Sticking with NWA for simplicity's sake, I don't feel like Cube or Dre seem to have generally hateful views at all these days as far as I can tell. But E? A lot of the guys who didn't make it this far never really had a chance to distance themselves from the more socially repressive decades past.

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20 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said:

I believe all the proceeds from any MZB work go to a charity now.

That's morally very interesting then, because you could argue buying her books does more good than anyone else's.

5 minutes ago, polishgenius said:



That's almost the other way around though because there's a fair amount of evidence that Eminem in real life isn't homophobic or sexist at all but that kind of language is embedded in the genre to a large extent.

If that's true, I'm not sure if that's a defence of him or not. I guess it depends on whether you believe music can affect people's attitudes. 

The other example I meant to mention in the OP was HP Lovecraft, who I know was not just old timey racist, but super "black people don't even count as human" racist. 

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An additional variable to consider the time during which the transgressions occurred. It’s why, for example, I don’t hate too hard on most of the Founding Fathers for being slave owners. You can ignore hateful language in hip hop from 20-30 years ago, but not from today. And with regards to NWA, at lot of what they were saying speaks to the situation they came of age in living in run down South LA. Personally I their stuff is fantastic. The one I struggle with is Michael Jackson. I love his music, but we’ll never know if he was a pedophile. Because of the ambiguity of it I lean towards still rocking his jams. If he had been found guilty, I would not. Another example is Roman Polanski. He can go straight to hell. Make sure to say hi to Art Briles on the way.

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56 minutes ago, Ormond said:

There is no such thing as a perfect human being, and artists are human beings.

Personally I have vowed never to read anything by Marion Zimmer Bradley again because of her horrific abuse of her own children. But that's mostly because I can't stop thinking about that when I try to read her stuff, not because I think it is immoral for someone to read it, and I would never criticize someone who still reads her works and finds them of artistic value.

I think a good case could be made in some instances for not purchasing new works by an artist when that could be seen as financially supporting reprehensible beliefs and behaviors. But I don't think it's wrong to read, view, or listen to art when doing so doesn't involve direct support of the evil opinions or actions of the artist. 

As a parent the Bradley/Breen stuff is terrifying.  

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12 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

An additional variable to consider the time during which the transgressions occurred. It’s why, for example, I don’t hate too hard on most of the Founding Fathers for being slave owners. You can ignore hateful language in hip hop from 20-30 years ago, but not from today. And with regards to NWA, at lot of what they were saying speaks to the situation they came of age in living in run down South LA. Personally I their stuff is fantastic. The one I struggle with is Michael Jackson. I love his music, but we’ll never know if he was a pedophile. Because of the ambiguity of it I lean towards still rocking his jams. If he had been found guilty, I would not. Another example is Roman Polanski. He can go straight to hell. Make sure to say hi to Art Briles on the way.

Actually they found stacks of fucked up kiddie torture porn in Michael's basement.

Sorry.

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13 minutes ago, Pony Empress Jace said:

Actually they found stacks of fucked up kiddie torture porn in Michael's basement.

Sorry.

WHAT?!?!?!?!?

The Googles only gave me one article, and in they say nothing could be authenticated.

Is this your revenge for me calling you the Smelly Queen?

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2 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said:

Say what now?

Yeah, it was a big thing a few years back. I guess they found 'em during the raid in 03 or whenever and it got leaked pretty recently around his Death Day Party.

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