Adapting ASOIAF For the Screen...

[Maester Yobjascz]

It's been pointed out that 'casting the movie' would be a bit easier if we had some idea of what the various roles entailed... how much dialogue, screen time, and focus the roles had. So, to that end, let's get started.

This thread will focus on adapting the books for the screen, large or small. We'll need to decide on the medium (TV or Film), the length (how long a film/episode), whether to keep the PoV approach (and how to convey that to the audience), how rigidly to stick to the texts (where to be religiously faithful, and where some creative license is needed), and how to transform the often lengthy inner monologues into information the audience can follow.

If time and space permit, we may also begin creating an initial framework of the adaptation, beginning with AGoT.

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That said, here are my initial thoughts:

I think the books are too long for film. There are so many characters, so many events, and so much 'stuff', that whatever survived the trimming process would leave the audience with a very narrow and shallow understanding of the story. Thus, I think it's best as for TV. Whether that be a full-fledged series, or a mini-series, I'm not certain.

Further, I think we try to maintain the PoV structure... some chapters will necessitate a full hour, and in others, we might combine two (or more?) chapters (and two PoV's) into one episode. Thus, I'd make it an hour-long show, with one or more segments.

I've discussed my personal philosophy of adaptations in the casting threads: if it detracts from the spirit of the story, I"m against changing it... however, if it has no impact, or improves/enhances the story (or the audience's ability to understand/believe it), I'm for it. As a result, I think several of the initial chapters in AGoT, the ones with a lot of introduction to the various characters, can be merged into each other, yielding a couple of PoV's that cover a lot more ground. This shouldn't lose anything, while it would make it much easier to watch (fewer PoV shifts).

Finally, I'm not certain how to handle the inner monologues. Having a voice-over narration from the PoV might function in some cases, while others might be better served by writing the characters thoughts into under-the-breath open monologues, or into actual dialogue with other characters. I guess I'd consider this one on a case by case basis.

[L'Sana]

When I first read the books, the format that first came to mind was "Soap Opera." I'm sure this will get me pelted with tomatoes, but hear me out: the plot is full of romatic intrigues, mysterious births, mistaken identies, family conflict, etc. that usually fill up the average soap. What's more, the story seems to have much the same format--multiple stories occuring at the same time, different perspectives, plots that take a long time to develop and even longer to resolve. Characters who drift in and out. If set ASOIF in present day, updated everyone's profession, and tried to put it on weekday afternoons, it would fit right in.

So that's the direction I would go, were I trying to do a screen adaptation. I'm not sure I would try to do an actual daytime soap, since the audience would be all wrong, but I would make it an hour long TV series, interweave the PoVs even more than they are, and generally try to keep things as soap-like as possible. Things will get resolved only slowly, plots will continue from episode to episode, and actors will understand their characters are likely to die at any moment. Overall, I would say that an episode will cover around two chapters of material, but not neccessarily just two full chapters. I see no problem with jumping from Winterfell to King's Landing to the Free Cities multiple times in any given episode. So a hypothetical episode one might involve the prologue, the execution, initial discussion of Dany's marriage, the finding the direwolves, and introducing them to the kids. Episode 2 might involve discussion of and preparation for Robert's visit, the party where Dany meets Drogo, and maybe even some additional material of what's going on at the wall, with Benjen and the LC discussing the missing rangers, Robert's visit, and how they want to procede. Robert arrives at the end.

Those are just my initial thoughts. I might be able to come up with something better with more time.

[Cynthesis]

To be honest, I think that Robert's Rebellion would make an excellent movie.

[L'Sana]

To be honest, I think that Robert's Rebellion would make an excellent movie.

It would. That might be a better approach, honestly, than trying to make a direct film version of the books: take an interesting subplot and put that on screen. I would love to see a Robert's Rebellion Movie. Or a Blackfyre one. Or a Tournament at Harrenhal miniseries.

[Maester Yobjascz]

The Rebellion might, but it's a wee bit outside the scope here.

The soap idea is an interesting one, and one I hadn't considered. Does this lead to any suggestions on how to handle the internal monologues? (voice-over narration, etc.)...

[Jaime Martell]

I always thought that the series would be best served as an HBO maxi-series

10 episodes or so per book with new epidoes every month or so. Does anyone remember Merlin the miniseries, kindsa like that

[Maester Yobjascz]

Well, here's the problem with a 'maxi-series'...

AGoT - 73 chapters

ACoK - 70 chapters

ASoS - 80 chapters

AFfC - 43 chapters

So, unless we're willing to *really* run wild with the soap-style rapid scene/PoV changes, and do a lot of condensing, you're not going to make it in 10 episodes or so, unless each episode was well over an hour in length.

If, between condensing and combining PoV's, we average about 2 chapters an episode, that's a 30 episode season, on average. We might have to take the last few chapters of ASoS and move them to AFfC (say... after the Red Wedding), or, more likely, we'll have to interlace the AFfC and ADwD chapters chronologically. Then cut the books in half time-wise, and make them into two seasons.

[Ser Greguh]

I think a 10 episode miniseries would do it for AGOT and possibly ACOK (though probably not ASOS), though it'd be a much more comfortable fit into a full season of television, HBO style full-hour episodes (think "The Wire"). I think you could do the first three books in three full 12-14 episode seasons. The entire Lord of the Rings trilogy was condensed into about 10 hours of movie, give or take - that's still under 1 season of television. Most chapters aren't an episode - many could be summarized in a 3-5 minute scene, others would probably take about 10-15 minutes. You could fit the entire prologue into a 5-7 minute pre-credits teaser, and that's if you're generous with how much dialogue you leave in.

We're treading thin copyright territory here, but I would hazard a guess that you could have the first episode cover all the way through to Bran's fall (which is the first really natural closure point, a no-brainer on what to close the first epi on). Open the second episode with Dany's introduction, close it with the attack on Bran, open the third with Bran's fever dream, close it with Dany and company riding into Vaes Dothrak, and with some interaction between Ned and Varys or Ned and LF. You can rip through the book in no time. Save extra time at the end for the battles. If you're efficient, and you don't feel the need to include every little snippet of dialogue, you can find that 10-14 hours is a LOT of time. Look at the insane amount of ground covered in season 1 of Rome.

[Maester Yobjascz]

I guess the issue is how much we want to flesh out the series. We could easily fit the books into 10-15 hour series', but we'd lose a lot of the detail and resolution. On the other hand, we could expand out to a full season, and further flesh out chapters to really round out the world.

While I'd personally prefer the latter as a fan of the books, I'm not certain that it'd be the best approach for general audiences... but I could be wrong. One advantage of making it longer is that it gives you more time to flesh out the more minor characters... and there are a lot of them.

I suppose my concern is that characters like the Greatjon, Addam Marbrand, Dagmer Cleftjaw, Tormund Giantsbane, and the like, will be reduced to a few quick scenes, with little, if any, dialogue. And while that's not necessarily a bad thing by itself, there are so many characters of that level, that I'm afraid the audience won't be able to distinguish them... there'll be a parade of nameless faces, all of whom appear to have a role in the story, but that the audience isn't familiar enough with to build a rapport with. By drawing the series out, each of those characters will become more familiar, and the audience will be better able to recognize them when they come onscreen.

In the drawn-out version, I'd build out the prologue into a full 1/2 hour... spend some time down at the Wall with Gared, Will, and the others as they mock Royce in their cups. Then watch Waymar argue his way into a command, and make his way north of the Wall, culminating in the full Prologue scene. The goal would be to make the audience really associate with the prologue characters. The end of the Prologue would really hammer home what kind of show people are watching. The second half would be an amalgamation of the Bran, Eddard, and Catelyn PoV's, as the boys see Gared beheaded, discover the wolves, meditate at the heart tree, and ending with word that King Robert is on his way north...

[Tysha]

Definitely a TV series not a movie series. Each book can easily be done in ten hours, even less - if Lord of the Rings and Gone with the Wind and War and Peace can all be made into movies, ASoIaF can make it onto television!

Hour long episodes, joint production between HBO and the BBC, so we can keep all the sex and swearing

As for the first episode ... this may sound sacriligeous but I say scrap the prologue. It's great in the book but on screen it would just slow things down. Go straight into the action with the characters we're going to be following and loving, we can learn about the wall later.

Instead, I would start it off with a very simple title credit - just the title, not actors or producers or anyone else yet. Then from a black screen fade into a dark and stormy night, and then BAM! A sword crosses a warhammer, pull out to see Robert and Rhaegar fighting on the Trident. Was it a stormy night when they thought? I have no idea, but it's called artistic license! Start the whole thing off with a quick 5-10 minute or so flashback, a breakneck speed tour through the major events of the rebellion. Show Robert killing Rhaegar, show the Targaryens being slaughtered, show Ned holding a dying Lyanna. It doesn't matter if no-one knows what's going on or who's who - they'll learn that later. What matters right now is that it's exciting. Plunge the audience directly into the middle of the war.

End it with Jaime killing Aerys and Ned finding him sitting on the Iron Throne, then fade from Ned's face staring at Jaime to the older Ned riding with his sons and Theon. And then over that slower, quieter scene you have the credits!

Okay, I just had way too much fun thinking about that!

[Maester Yobjascz]

Tysha - Interesting approach...

It seems that we've got some competing views of ASOIAF...

There's the story as a soap-opera: driven by character interactions.

There's the story as conflict: driven by events.

And the story as people: character development.

Each approach is correct, in a way, but each results in a different take in production. As a soap opera, we're focused on the interactions between characters: dialogue. If it can't be encapsulated in a word, or a stare, it's not going to come across, but I think we might lose the internal conflicts and motivations somewhat. As conflict, I think the result is that we focus more on what characters do, as opposed to what they're thinking. And if we focus on character development (what they're thinking), we run the risk of getting emo and convoluted. The trick is to merge them together so that they'll all work.

My choice would be to keep the prologue. Not because axing a chapter is somehow sacrilegious, but because the prologue sets up what appears to be one of the central conflicts: the Others. AGoT almost entirely revolves around King's Landing, Robert's death, courtly intrigue, and the fight between the Lannisters and the Starks. But as readers, it's all the more sad because *we know* that the Others are the real threat, and a threat that's being ignored.

Moreover, I really like the idea of getting the audience attached to the characters in the Prologue, only to have them killed. Sets the tone for the rest of the series. Finally, we'd have character development, character interactions, conflict, and suspense... a good mix.

To follow up on that thought...

Certain scenes could definitely be done soap-opera style: cutting rapidly between different PoV's... this would be limited almost entirely to court intrigue scenes, though, as I don't know of many other situations where plotlines intertwine quite enough to pull it off.

Others would focus more on character development, and others on conflict...

Would you have these as disparate episode 'styles'? Say, have a soapy episode one day, and a gritty conflict episode another? Or would you do it on a scene by scene basis? Or would you try to pick one style to represent the series as a whole, and try to generally make-do?

To follow up on that thought...

Certain scenes could definitely be done soap-opera style: cutting rapidly between different PoV's... this would be limited almost entirely to court intrigue scenes, though, as I don't know of many other situations where plotlines intertwine quite enough to pull it off.

Others would focus more on character development, and others on conflict...

Would you have these as disparate episode 'styles'? Say, have a soapy episode one day, and a gritty conflict episode another? Or would you do it on a scene by scene basis? Or would you try to pick one style to represent the series as a whole, and try to generally make-do?

[Tysha]

'Interesting' as in 'crazy'?

My choice would be to keep the prologue. Not because axing a chapter is somehow sacrilegious, but because the prologue sets up what appears to be one of the central conflicts: the Others. AGoT almost entirely revolves around King's Landing, Robert's death, courtly intrigue, and the fight between the Lannisters and the Starks. But as readers, it's all the more sad because *we know* that the Others are the real threat, and a threat that's being ignored.

But while it works really well in the book I don't think it would work as well on screen.

First I think it would be too episodic and disconnected to devote the first quarter hour of the first episode to characters who don't get that much time to develop and a story that doesn't have anything to do with the rest of the plot.

In AGoT, with the exception of Dany, the POV characters all start off in the same place. And while Dany recurs again and again so we get used to her, it would be weird starting off with this seemingly unrelated incident and then not going back to it for half a dozen episodes - and while you can read a book in a few days, on screen we'd be asking the audience to remember what happened five or seven or ten episodes ago. I think it would be better to have the threat of the Others creep in slowly and be seen through Jon's eyes - a character we will have already come to know and love.

[Maester Yobjascz]

'Interesting' as in 'crazy'?

No, not at all. I rather enjoy your suggestions, even if I don't always agree. The 'crazy' label I reserve for unnamed others on the boards.

I suppose what struck me was the parallel between your suggested intro and the intros for the LoTR trilogy, for example, Fellowship. You open with a series of short vignettes, centered heavily on conflict and characters you'll rarely (if ever) see again. It's all very rapid, and very exciting, and explains all the backstory. Then you have your opening title, and a serious slow-down to the meeting between Frodo and Gandalf. It's a good approach, and made a bit stronger by having a narrator explain what's going on. Without that narrative, I think the audience would be completely and utterly lost. I believe the same goes for your opening sequence... it would need some sort of narration. Perhaps we could find stories told by Eddard or Old Nan to work?

In the end, I think the problem with the Prologue as written is that it could come across as fairly slow. However, I think it serves an important purpose, and can be reworked a bit to fit. What we have with the Prologue is in some ways like a really short horror film. Three men of the Night's Watch are sent to pursue some wildlings north of the Wall. A young, untested leader is allowed the command because he's got rich family. Then you have Will finding the Wildlings, but when Royce gets there, the bodies are gone. There are clues that something is very wrong, and then there's the climactic battle with Royce. Everything goes quiet, Will descends from the tree, turns around, and Aiiiii! There's Waymar Wight, steel shard in his eye! It's not a long sequence... though I think it *could* be expanded to a full half-hour... but most likely somewhere around a quarter hour.

Otherwise, I'd prefer to have the War for the Dawn hanging over everything from the start. Bran's dream with the 3-eyed crow showing him the Heart of Winter could either be the first we hear of *something* going on beyond the Wall, but I think it would just be confusing. When Bran's attackers talk about the white walkers up beyond the Wall, and when Osha tells Bran that Robb's 'marching the wrong way', we could either have these be more clues that there's something going on to the North, but I'm concerned that the audience would simply overlook it without more. From my memory of things, Robb marches south before the Night's Watch encounters the wights of Othor and Jafar, so all these events would take place before we have any confirmation of the wights. However, if we see the Others at the very beginning, the audience will be primed and looking for references. They'll understand what the 3-eyed crow is trying to do. They'll know why Osha and the others fled. They'll believe that Robb is actually marching the wrong way. If we wait to show them the threat, the audience would have to go back and remember these other warnings, and I doubt they'd do it.

[frost_byte101]

This thread will focus on adapting the books for the screen, large or small. We'll need to decide on the medium (TV or Film),

TV, definitely. Film would take like 27 movies or something.

the length (how long a film/episode),

Assuming it will be on HBO: 2 hours seems good to me, maybe 1 1/2 hours.

whether to keep the PoV approach (and how to convey that to the audience),

Keep it, and the prologue, for reasons stated above. I'd also put the chapters in the TV version in the same order as the book version. I'd intercut the prologue and the credits in the first episode, then have a basic title card: Bran, or whoever we're focusing on. Nothing cliche like making the title card llook like a product of the world. For the first time we're introduced to the character I'd have a card, then everytime after that I'd have a transition shot—like for Jon, having a shot of the wall before we get into the action. And of course, each character would have a different overall color to their chapter—like for Jon, a very white blue (reflecting location), and black (reflecting charater zeitgheist [i don't even know if that's the right word]; or something; if I were being paid, I'd be more creative); or for Ned a melancholy [dark] blue (self-explanitory), both being different enough to tell who's story you're going to be seeing is being told.

how rigidly to stick to the texts (where to be religiously faithful, and where some creative license is needed),

I'd be very staunch about it, but some of the dialogue would have to be rewritten so it sounds more natural. Also, some of the chapters are written unchronologically, and if filmed in the same order they were written, it would confuse people too much.

and how to transform the often lengthy inner monologues into information the audience can follow.

I think some voice-over would work, also some under-breath muterings. Looks would also work for some things.

Whether that be a full-fledged series, or a mini-series, I'm not certain.

According to Websters definition of a miniseries, a miniseries would be the correct adjective.

some chapters will necessitate a full hour,

No. No episode should need a full hour to tell, not one. Unless you're Rohmer, I think each chapter could be done in about 10-15 (or 20 when we get to ASOS) minutes. For the amount of each chapter that's description, you could show it in one frame, making room for the more important bits.

and in others, we might combine two (or more?) chapters (and two PoV's) into one episode.

opperating on the 10-15 min thing, we could get 4-8 chapters into an episode. And quite personally, if a remember the beginning of AGOT correctly, the first few chapters would go by fairly fast, epescially sinvce not much happens—unless you want to show the backstory, not just tell it; I'd show it.

I've discussed my personal philosophy of adaptations in the casting threads: if it detracts from the spirit of the story, I"m against changing it... however, if it has no impact, or improves/enhances the story (or the audience's ability to understand/believe it), I'm for it.

That's reasonable.

As a result, I think several of the initial chapters in AGoT, the ones with a lot of introduction to the various characters, can be merged into each other,

I don't know about that though.

Finally, I'm not certain how to handle the inner monologues. Having a voice-over narration from the PoV might function in some cases, while others might be better served by writing the characters thoughts into under-the-breath open monologues, or into actual dialogue with other characters. I guess I'd consider this one on a case by case basis.

This, too, seems reasonable.

And I'm going to cut-and-paste something I said on the casting threads:

I've been thinking about something for a while.

You know, by the time someone actually gets around to adapting these books, the tricks they're going to be able to do with digital effects are going to be astounding—as in how real things are going to look. I also kind of doubt GRRM is going to let his baby out into the wild without some gaurantee it's going to be well taken care of. So I think we have some gaurantee that this series is going to look, to a degree, fairly good on screen. Taking into account that it will take some time to get this on to any kind of screen, the effects we are going to see will be really very good by the time the film-makers get around to post-production. Also, if I remember correctly, digital FX are getting much cheaper, so a lot of the techniques the film-makers are going to be employing aren't going to cost as much money.

What I'm getting at is this: why not have the same actor play a few different roles, with different digital facial overlay? This would eliminate the arduous task of searching for an actor that actually looks like the person they might be portraying, and instead just look for someone with a facial structure that is generally the same and can act. Also, I would imagine that by the time this series going into production, flawlessly realistic digital human characters would be a reality, and that would defintely allow the makers to make the world look more ralistically populated (and have more, different extras, just in case people started to notice the same ones popping up—which is unlikely, but I'd want to hedge my bets). This would also allow many (cheaper) voice actors lend their voices, to many different characters—like John Di Maggio (to see what he's done: http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0224007/), and a bunch of others.

I'm thinking we probably won't see any real talks about adapting this series for another 5-10 years—this of course isn't based on anything, but I think it's fairly realistic. I wonder if this would just cost too much to hold very high realistic probability.

I suppose what struck me was the parallel between your suggested intro and the intros for the LoTR trilogy, for example, Fellowship. You open with a series of short vignettes, centered heavily on conflict and characters you'll rarely (if ever) see again. It's all very rapid, and very exciting, and explains all the backstory. Then you have your opening title, and a serious slow-down to the meeting between Frodo and Gandalf. It's a good approach, and made a bit stronger by having a narrator explain what's going on.

But then people are going to be comparing it to LOTR all the time.

[Tysha]

I suppose what struck me was the parallel between your suggested intro and the intros for the LoTR trilogy, for example, Fellowship. You open with a series of short vignettes, centered heavily on conflict and characters you'll rarely (if ever) see again. It's all very rapid, and very exciting, and explains all the backstory. Then you have your opening title, and a serious slow-down to the meeting between Frodo and Gandalf. It's a good approach, and made a bit stronger by having a narrator explain what's going on. Without that narrative, I think the audience would be completely and utterly lost. I believe the same goes for your opening sequence... it would need some sort of narration. Perhaps we could find stories told by Eddard or Old Nan to work?

I see what you mean but the difference between the LotR opening and my suggested opening for this is that we would see the characters again and we would most definitely see the ramifications of the events. The focus would be on Ned, Robert and Jaime, we'd fade from young Ned to older Ned and then see Robert and Jaime again within ten minutes. And think how great Robert and Jaime's introductions would be if we'd already had those glimpses of them as young men in the midst of battle!

I don't think it would require a narration at all. It doesn't matter if it's a bit confusing - there'll be time for the audience to catch up when they catch their breath. Also, showing the major events of the war, however briefly, would negate the need for a lot of possibly clunky expositiory dialogue, which is really the only other way of getting across all the necessary information about what happened fourteen years ago.

The problem with the prologue for me is that it's still so disconnected from the rest of the story and stays disconnected for so long. If we could something else significant about Others or wights in episode one then perhaps ... but they don't come back for so long! I think it would be better to introduce Jon, have the audience love him immediately ('cause who doesn't love Jon immediately?) and then follow the developments on the Wall and beyond through his eyes.

The vast majority of this story is about the Starks and the Lannisters. We should start as we mean to go on and start with them.

[Maester Yobjascz]

Frost -

Yeah, I probably overstated the length of some of these chapters... but there are a few where, between the actual book-length of the chapter, and how things would have to be fleshed out to function well visually, the timing would stretch beyond what's expected. These chapters are fairly few, but I'm pretty sure they exist.

As to merging some of the initial chapters, there's an Eddard and Catelyn chapter, a the beginning, that both deal with close to the same period of time... we could either cut back and forth, soap style, or shoot the whole thing from one PoV... this doesn't happen that often though...

And I remember your suggestion on the casting thread. It's a good suggestion, but somewhat out of the scope of what we're doing here.

Finally, I agree that there would be comparisons to the LoTR intros. That by itself is not such a bad thing, as LoTR was hardly the first film/show to use that method. There's definitely a place for that sort of montage sequence, but I think it'd be better suited to when Bran's thinking of being a knight, and thinks of all the legendary heroes and stories he's heard. For the intro, I'd prefer to go with the Prologue.

You know, another option would be to have 'A Brief History of Westeros' as the opening title... Tysha is right that the Rebellion sets the stage for the events that follow. But at the same time, the Rebellion is an independent story from the War for the Dawn.

The problem is that ASOIAF is complex... there are *lots* of interwoven stories. One is the Rebellion, which sets up the courtly intrigue, the stories of Robb, Catelyn, Arya, Sansa, Tyrion, and Dany. Then there's the War for the Dawn, which will *eventually* include Jon and Bran. Both stories are equally important. But I think failing to introduce them both at the beginning does the other short shrift.

Since the Rebellion *does* factor in to the majority of AGoT, I'd suggest a historical montage scene to set the stage as the title sequence. However, I'd also include the Prologue. Given that it's the first episode, I'd show the Prologue first, followed by the title montage, followed by the Bran I and continuing until Eddard learns Robert is on his way. This introduces the War for the Dawn and shows the Others. It then does a full intro on recent world events, setting the stage for Eddard and the others who follow. Then we start on the story...

Thoughts?

[Tysha]

As to merging some of the initial chapters, there's an Eddard and Catelyn chapter, a the beginning, that both deal with close to the same period of time... we could either cut back and forth, soap style, or shoot the whole thing from one PoV... this doesn't happen that often though...

But on screen POV is a lot less obvious than on the page. Unless there's only one person on screen or it's a new situation we're following an old character into (eg Jon seeing the Wall for the first time), why bother worrying about whose POV it's in? We can just show the scene!

Oh, and personally I think 99.9% of voiceovers are silly and we should avoid them at all costs!

ETA: Maester Y, that way the episode would be 45 minutes through before the story got to start! The Starks and the Lannisters are the A-plot, the first focus should be on them. That's not to say the other stories aren't important or that they're getting short changed, but they don't have to be there right at the start. They can come later - and in fact, saving them for later means that the audience won't be bombarded with quite so much information and so would be able to follow everything much better.

[Maester Yobjascz]

One way PoV shifts are noticeable, is that the PoV character is *always* onscreen... they're always centered on-camera, and their voice usually controls the dialogue.

These shifts could be done with or without a 'PoV Card' displaying whose perspective we're going to, but it's an interesting idea...

As for voice-overs, I generally agree with you... but the sheer amount of information that needs to be conveyed in order to have scenes make sense is boggling. Narration would make things much simpler and easier. If only there was a good way to do it (i.e. non-cheesy). One possibility is to have the PoV do the narration for the scene... another would be to have a single narrator, likely a non-character, do the narration for all scenes. I don't know... this one causes me issues.

[frost_byte101]

Yeah, I probably overstated the length of some of these chapters... but there are a few where, between the actual book-length of the chapter, and how things would have to be fleshed out to function well visually, the timing would stretch beyond what's expected.

How about this: you give me a chapter reference, and I'll see if I can't cut it down to 10-15 minute-length. I am near positive all chapters won't need anywhere close to an hour to tell.

These chapters are fairly few, but I'm pretty sure they exist.

And they probably do, but I don't think any chapter should warrant any more than 30 minutes.

As to merging some of the initial chapters, there's an Eddard and Catelyn chapter, a the beginning, that both deal with close to the same period of time... we could either cut back and forth, soap style,

Ahh, but then we would be saying these screnes are taking place at the same time. Now, this may be the most obvious thing in the world to a lot of people, but I never picked up on the fact that intercutting two seemingly unrelated scenes implied they are going on at the same time untill my creative video making class.

or shoot the whole thing from one PoV...

This is reasonable, but who would you choose to tell the thing. Or would you have "neutral" POV's, not told from any character, but following more than one character. I think near the end of AGOT the Sansa and Arya chapters showing Ned's beheading take place back-to-back. This "neutral POV" approach would work for that. If this is indeed what you mean.

And I remember your suggestion on the casting thread. It's a good suggestion, but somewhat out of the scope of what we're doing here.

. . . Yeah, I guess it is. . . .

Finally, I agree that there would be comparisons to the LoTR intros. That by itself is not such a bad thing, as LoTR was hardly the first film/show to use that method.

However, it's the newest (as far as I know). And these are both fantasy works, which is just inviting unneeded comparison. And, I'm drawing a blank for other films that do this, could you list some?

[Maester Yobjascz]

Frost -

I'm not going to comb through the books right now to see if you can cut the scenes down... I'm sure you can, and I'm not arguing the 1-hour scene at all. I admitted that I overestimated them, and only point to them now to suggest that some are longer than others. But if you really want me to throw out some long sequences, the Red Wedding scene comes to mind as taking a bit longer to show... especially if you intercut Arya's scenes outside the castle.

Second, I understand that intercutting PoV's would imply contemporaneous chronology. What I meant by 'close to the same time' was that there's significant overlap of time... but I believe one begins earlier, and the other ends later...

And I'm not sure that I like the 'neutral' PoV... it kind of goes against how the books are written. If we opt for a neutral PoV, it'd necessitate other stylistic changes as well... like a neutral narrator (if there is one)... no? For the Arya/Sansa scenes at the Great Sept for Eddard's beheading, I'd interlace the two PoV's... but the cutting back and forth makes a formal PoV shift with 'PoV cards' somewhat problematic. I think the card idea works if we maintain the relative length of the PoV's. But if we opt for a 'soap' style, with rapid shifts, the cards just get in the way.

As far as other films/shows that use the same LoTR intro sequence style, the first off the top of my head is 'Gilligan's Island'. Intro sequence telling the background story of how things came to pass, with the characters, conflict (the storm), and then the episode begins with a (usually) slow build-up of events. The Star Wars films took a similar approach, but used a text block instead of a visual montage. Same idea though.