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The Most Skilled Warrior


Ranvier: The Iron Tide

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Well, I have another interesting question:

Strong Belwas or The Mountain?

I still believe Bronn is the easily in the top 10. He appears to be as witty/crafty as Tyrion, yet as skilled with a sword/shield as maybe even Jaime. We saw him fight once, and he never got hit (granted, one hit would mean certain death). It will be interesting to see him fight in the coming books.

The Mountain all the way. Strong Belwas's one free cut policy would be the death of him since Gregor's first cut would probably cut him in half.

I love Bronn but he's overrated as a fighter. Until he actually fights someone acknowledged as exceptionally good - and wins - I wouldn't put him in the top ten.

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Arthur's good, but I doubt he's THAT good.

Well consider that Ned called him "the finest Knight" he had ever known, and also remember he was the last of three that survived in a 7 on 3 fight at the Tower of Joy (and according to Ned he would have been killed by Arthur if not for Howland Reed). AND he is the Sword of the Morning, which the Daynes appear to be very picky about (they have not had another since). AND his sword is Dawn, which is Valyrian steel which is described as being light and quick while still having the physical properties of comparable normal blades. Besides these things, however, it is just sort of a feeling I have. :)

Well, I have another interesting question:

Strong Belwas or The Mountain?

I still believe Bronn is the easily in the top 10. He appears to be as witty/crafty as Tyrion, yet as skilled with a sword/shield as maybe even Jaime. We saw him fight once, and he never got hit (granted, one hit would mean certain death). It will be interesting to see him fight in the coming books.

Strong Belwas wins fights because he is strong and surprisingly quick. Well Gregor isn't quick but he certainly is STRONG! Besides he wears a full suit of armor, whereas Belwas does not. NOT TO MENTION GIVING GREGOR ONE FREE CUT! To be honest I think this topic has been done before...and I voted for The Mountain That Rides. :)

And for Bronn, I think we need to see more before we can judge him, but if anything the lack of formal training would be a big negative.

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I wish I could see Belwas fight Gregor. Considering he dismounted a knight with a lance and killed him, I consider him one of the most impressive fighters. He did survive many pit fights, which are known to be quick and vicious. I believe his size is comparable to the Mountains (though I may be mistaken), and who ever gets the first blow may be the victor.

Belwas seems like the type of guy who knows how his opponents work and think, while the Mountain, frankly, doesn't care.

I think the Mountain may still win, but he may be short a few appendages.

EDIT: I don't remember Belwas giving a "free" cut, I just remember him saying that he allows his opponent to strike him once before finishing him. That's some serious surviving power. Also, doesn't Belwas use a dothraki blade? And aren't those incredibly amazingly sharp?

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AND he is the Sword of the Morning, which the Daynes appear to be very picky about (they have not had another since). AND his sword is Dawn, which is Valyrian steel which is described as being light and quick while still having the physical properties of comparable normal blades.

Just a quibble: Dawn is not a Valyrian blade. It is an ancient and important sword, but it is made of ore from a fallen meteorite.

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Just a quibble: Dawn is not a Valyrian blade. It is an ancient and important sword, but it is made of ore from a fallen meteorite.

Thank you for that correction you are of course correct.

Whoever mentioned the Blackfish and put him at #6 I think is mistaken. Brynden is one of my absolute favorite characters but as far as battle prowess we have no conclusive evidence. While he may very well be worth of #6 or higher, we just don't know...

My vote is still for Arthur Dayne.

P.S. Hey redcandle I can't help but notice you are always board trolling at the same time I am....class maybe? I have it from 6-10:30 EST Mon-Thurs. :(

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He didn't beat a knight, he beat a champion.

Belwas cannot penetrate Gregor's defenses and Gregor's a canny warrior

If by canny you mean uses brute force, then yes I tend to agree. In my recollection, there has never been an instance where the Mountain has used tactics or brain power to win a fight. Also, there has to be some way to defeat a fully armored knight, seeing how Bronn and Sirrio have both done it in recent memory.

And to whoever said that Bronn's lack of formal training holds him back:

I believe just the opposite. He has a battle tested strategy, perfected through trial and error. Also, this shows Bronn's ability to adapt quickly, since if he doesn't, he dies.

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I'm the one who put the Blackfish at #6. I did not consider Arthur Dayne because he's been dead ~15 years -- I think I could take him at this point.

The Blackfish was idolized by none other than Jaime Lannister as one of the great knights of his generation. He was as a leader, along with Barristan, in the War of the Ninepenny Kings and even as an older man leads Robb's outriders and keys his victories. He was Knight of the Gate (I think that's the term) in the Vale, an honored post.

Since the question is skill, I think Brynden Tully qualifies.

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Well consider that Ned called him "the finest Knight" he had ever known, and also remember he was the last of three that survived in a 7 on 3 fight at the Tower of Joy (and according to Ned he would have been killed by Arthur if not for Howland Reed). AND he is the Sword of the Morning, which the Daynes appear to be very picky about (they have not had another since). AND his sword is Dawn, which is Valyrian steel which is described as being light and quick while still having the physical properties of comparable normal blades. Besides these things, however, it is just sort of a feeling I have. :)

I have to also disagree on with you on this. Ned did call Arthur the "finest knight" he had ever known, however remember the qualities that Ned looked for. Honesty, Chivalry, Doing one's Duty, everything that he believed a knight should be. Though no doubt Arthur Dayne was an impressive warrior, there may have been better. A knight constitutes (to most people) other things than just skill in battle.

Also, the Sword of the Morning is a hereditary title, so the Daynes do have a limited selection of who gets this title.

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In defense of Ser Arthur Dayne, Jaime thought very, very highly of him as a knight as well, and he had a different criteria than Ned...

I doubt that the qualities that one finds "knightly" vary much from person to person (excluding Sandor). Jaime knows his honor is moot, and it's a fact he regrets and bemoans often enough.

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If by canny you mean uses brute force, then yes I tend to agree. In my recollection, there has never been an instance where the Mountain has used tactics or brain power to win a fight. Also, there has to be some way to defeat a fully armored knight, seeing how Bronn and Sirrio have both done it in recent memory.

And to whoever said that Bronn's lack of formal training holds him back:

I believe just the opposite. He has a battle tested strategy, perfected through trial and error. Also, this shows Bronn's ability to adapt quickly, since if he doesn't, he dies.

There is? I seem to recall Bronn defeating a thoroughly unimpressive knight through trickery and Meryn Trant showing up later while Syrio's nowhere to be found....

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Seeing as we're talking about a warrior's *skill*, rather than his survivability, or ability to mow down opponents, I'd knock Gregor down another couple of notches. If it wasn't for his freakish size, I don't know that Gregor would be that much better than most of the knights in Westeros. A lot of that could be said of Sandor as well... not as big as his brother, but big enough.

That said, Gregor can clearly handle a lance ("Gregor's lance goes where Gregor wants it to"), so perhaps he's good enough to crack the bottom of the list, but I kind of doubt it. Sandor doesn't have Gregor's size or strength, so his skill needs to make up for it. Sandor *might* crack the top 10.

As for the top, Barristan, among the living, clearly ranks at the top. Oberyn would be a somewhat distant and heavily contested second, with Garlan Tyrell (Not only does Loras admit Garlan's superiority, but Garlan apparently trains regularly against multiple opponents... that's got to count for something). Beyond them, however, the list gets pretty murky.

I think Belwas might be good enough to crack the list... good enough to survive the fighting pits that long, impress Illyrio *and* Selmy.

Loras probably belongs on the list, though I'm not sure where.

Blackfish... perhaps in his day, but now he's better suited to command than battle.

I'll second the doubts about Bronn... a good mercenary, yes. A good swordsman, defintely. One of the 10 best in all Westeros??? I don't think so.

Others that come to mind:

Qhorin Halfhand (though he's dead at around the same time as Jaime loses his hand... otherwise they'd both be on the list).

Andrik the Unsmiling (I believe this is who Dagmar Cleftjaw considers the best on the Iron Isles).

Brienne of Tarth. Good enough to best Loras, kill other noted knights, and impress Jaime Lannister with her skills.

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There is? I seem to recall Bronn defeating a thoroughly unimpressive knight through trickery and Meryn Trant showing up later while Syrio's nowhere to be found....

Call it trickery if you wish, but if plate mail was impenetrable then Bronn would be something, and the thoroughly unimpressive knight would be alive. I was of the opinion that Meryn Trant killed Syrio, since he showed up later relatively unharmed and there was no word of Syrio. I believe the last thing Arya saw was Meryn lowering his helmet advancing on Syrio, and Syrio telling her to run.

Though I could be wrong.

EDIT: Sorry, I misinterpreted what was said. Did Syrio not kill 4 guards in plate before Meryn showed up?

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