Erikson's Reaper's Gale book review

[pat5150]

With only 5 days to go before the official release date, I reckon it will start surfacing all across the UK soon.

Patrick

[Rhaco]

Weird it says mine isn't being dispatched til May 15-17 from Amazon.uk.

Are you sure that's not the delivery estimate, Arak? The site lists mine with a dispatch estimate of May 8 and a delivery estimate of May 15-17.

Can't wait.

[Eurytus]

I'm starting to get the feeling that I'm the only one who views Karsa as the best character in the series.

Which makes it clear that the rest of you simply don't understand the brilliance of the Toblakai warrior.

I couldn't stand Karsa in House of Chains but for some reason, by the time we got to Bonehunters I had warmed to him considerably. Now he is actually one of my preferred characters.

[Rhaco]

I liked Karsa from the beginning. The long Karsa-centric opening to HOC was maybe my favorite part of that book.

I wasn't particularly thrilled by the Karsa vs the Hounds or Karsa vs the K'Chain scenes, though. The former because the Hounds really disappointed and the latter because it was a tad silly.

[Werthead]

I liked Karsa from the start as well. Those opening 200-odd pages boosted House of Chains from being utterly mediocre to tolerably enjoyable (although still not as good as most of the other books).

[Ran]

I think I'm the opposite, Wert. Karsa turned what could have been a reasonably enjoyable novel (though still a bit of a letdown when compared to MoI) into a mediocrity, and the series never recovered from that blow as far as I'm concerned. Obviously, mileage varies.

[Kalbear]

Karsa is the reason I stopped reading the series past MT. When I found out he factors in heavily in Bonehunters, I didn't want to continue.

[Lord Baelish]

He doesn't factor in heavily in BH. He's present, sure, but he has virtually no impact on the main storylines in that book. But, by all accounts, he will have a major role to play in RG, so it's probably best you stopped anyway.

[pat5150]

Karsa does play a major role in RG, that goes without saying. Like many, I wasn't a big fan of his at the beginning. And his killing the two Deragoth and then a K'Chain Che'Malle with his bare hands didn't sit well with me.

But I then I believe I perceived a pattern in DG, something that would prove that there is a lot more to Karsa Orlong than meets the eye. I'm just waiting to see if other readers will pick it up before posting about it.

We'll have to wait and see! By the way, I just emailed SE to see if that scene with Tehol and the chickens in RG is a humorous jab at Goodkind's chicken that isn't a chicken!

Patrick

[Whiskeyjack]

Karsa does play a major role in RG, that goes without saying. Like many, I wasn't a big fan of his at the beginning. And his killing the two Deragoth and then a K'Chain Che'Malle with his bare hands didn't sit well with me.

That's a complaint I see from a lot of people - that Karsa is too powerful, and that there isn't enough justification provided for his fighting ability. He's just a huge barbarian who is super-strong and can heal quickly...so he shouldn't be able to (so easily) take down other entities that have been set up as powerful forces based on their species/ability to use magic/Ascendancy/etc.

My answer to that is that Karsa is obviously more than just a normal Toblakai warrior. We might not know why he is so powerful...but that doesn't mean that there isn't a reason for it. We simply don't know that reason yet, because he doesn't know it yet.

So it's not all laid out there for us. We aren't being told that Karsa has access to a million warrens, like Quick Ben, or that he was possessed by a god and given supernatural assassin skills, like Apsalar. That doesn't mean that his story/power is limited to what we've seen thus far in the novels.

If Karsa was simply a giant with a crazy amount of strength, the ability to heal quickly, and an amazing amount of willpower....well, I'd still like him a lot, but I could see why some people would be annoyed when he took down other super-powerful characters. But I think there's more to him than what we've been told to this point.

Beyond that....his entire attitude is awesome. Doesn't take shit from anybody. Comes to a decision, takes action, and the conventional rules of society can go to hell. Doesn't worry about fucking up, doesn't fear anything. Keeps things nice and simple. Makes for a great character, in my opinion.

[Dolorous Edd]

I enjoy Karsa as well, although I do hope that there is eventually an explanation for his ability to destroy certain entities so easily.

Tehol and Bugg, on the other hand ....

[Errant Bard]

I despise Karsa, he's the incarnation of what I don't like in the Malazan serie: he comes out of nowhere, he has superpowers that aren't explained yet dwarf entities that were actually developped to be scary and uber powerful, he has no real goal beside the author's plot coupons, and his attitude simply consists in laying the smackdown on whoever crosses his road. And more than half of a good book was wasted on him alone.

So yeah, the faster he drops out of the story, the better, and I'm regretting to have preordered RG.

[Ran]

Whiskeyjack,

Beyond that....his entire attitude is awesome. Doesn't take shit from anybody. Comes to a decision, takes action, and the conventional rules of society can go to hell. Doesn't worry about fucking up, doesn't fear anything. Keeps things nice and simple. Makes for a great character, in my opinion.

Makes for something not unlike Nietzsche's übermensch, with maybe a dash of Objectivism (entering Goodking territory, no less) and I don't find it remotely compelling, anyways. There aren't any consequences for Karsa essentially being the biggest asshole in a long line of assholes in the series, at least insofar as HoC and MT (last book I've read in the series) revealed. No doubt Erikson has some plan, but he pulled the bus over to let me off the ride.

So, it's not just that he's insanely powerful for no obvious reason. It's that he's insanely powerful for no obvious reason, and I don't find the character interesting as a character. But you're right, there are probably those who were just turned off by the whole Deragoth debacle.

[Azmure]

I agree with Ran and Errant Bard wholeheartedly. What gets me with Karsa is that there are no consequences for his actions, and no balancing force for his powers. He seems like the perfect example of authorial arrogance: let's spend three books and two and half thousand pages building up this intricate, multi-faceted world of checks and balances, with powers that we can see and understand how they work, and then let's drop this big unexplained atomic bomb of stupidity in the middle of it.

There seems to be no reason for Karsa's powers other than Erikson's insistence on steamrolling over other, better-established characters and creatures, just so that we can all gasp at Karsa uber-ness.

Though I hate to compare a writer of Erikson's quality to someone like Goodkind, his obvious blind-love of Karsa is exactly like Goodkind's love of mr-perfect Richard. It is impossible to care about a character who you know is obviously never going to be in any real danger, and can single-handedly wipe the floor with anyone and anything, even when it makes no sense whatsoever. I'll even go so far as to say that Karsa is the worse example of authorial arrogance, simply because he is also such an unmitigated asshole.

OK, rant over.

[Whiskeyjack]

Whiskeyjack,

Makes for something not unlike Nietzsche's übermensch, with maybe a dash of Objectivism (entering Goodking territory, no less) and I don't find it remotely compelling, anyways. There aren't any consequences for Karsa essentially being the biggest asshole in a long line of assholes in the series, at least insofar as HoC and MT (last book I've read in the series) revealed. No doubt Erikson has some plan, but he pulled the bus over to let me off the ride.

Like you I expect that Erikson has a plan....and I do expect that there will be 'consequences' for Karsa, in some form or another (not necessarily death, though that is, of course, possible). I certainly do not expect that he will manage to achieve his goals, as they have been described thus far. So my guess is that there's going to be some level of failure for him, regardless of whether or not he is ever defeated in individual combat.

As for him being an 'asshole'....is that really true? He might not be the nicest person in the world, but I don't really get a sense of malice from him....he isn't a bully who is trying to hurt other people or make them miserable. He just doesn't play by the rules that govern most other people. And he's blunt. And not hesitant to tell others when he disagrees with them. Okay, maybe he's sort of an asshole. But not in the harshest sense of the word.

So, it's not just that he's insanely powerful for no obvious reason. It's that he's insanely powerful for no obvious reason, and I don't find the character interesting as a character.

I can certainly respect that feeling. I haven't read the books prior to Midnight Tides for a few years, but, from what I recall, I had a strong dislike for the character Silverfox, and it was mainly based on my lack of interest in that type of character. I'm not suggesting that anybody is right or wrong for their own personal tastes....just suggesting that the criticism I see so often..."he's too powerful for no obvious reason!"....doesn't hold much weight, given that there are 4 books left in the series and so much is still shrouded in mystery.

Something I wanted to add, in general, to the Karsa debate....one of the things I love about Karsa is that I think he's one of the most obviously grey characters in the Malazan world. He's certainly not 'good' in the conventional sense of the word. He'd kill just about anybody who bothered him, without giving it a second thought. He has admitted to rape (induced by blood oil) and shows no remorse over it. So he's done some pretty bad things. But he's not evil either. He has a sense of honor, despises slavery. IIRC, he refuses to fall in with the Crippled God (really do need to do a re-read). He's just his own chaotic force, and you never know which side of a battle he'll take.

[Feral Bonsai]

I thought there was a line in BH about how some Toblaki (sp?) could become a warren unto themselves.

[Whiskeyjack]

I agree with Ran and Errant Bard wholeheartedly. What gets me with Karsa is that there are no consequences for his actions, and no balancing force for his powers. He seems like the perfect example of authorial arrogance: let's spend three books and two and half thousand pages building up this intricate, multi-faceted world of checks and balances, with powers that we can see and understand how they work, and then let's drop this big unexplained atomic bomb of stupidity in the middle of it.

There seems to be no reason for Karsa's powers other than Erikson's insistence on steamrolling over other, better-established characters and creatures, just so that we can all gasp at Karsa uber-ness.

Though I hate to compare a writer of Erikson's quality to someone like Goodkind, his obvious blind-love of Karsa is exactly like Goodkind's love of mr-perfect Richard. It is impossible to care about a character who you know is obviously never going to be in any real danger, and can single-handedly wipe the floor with anyone and anything, even when it makes no sense whatsoever. I'll even go so far as to say that Karsa is the worse example of authorial arrogance, simply because he is also such an unmitigated asshole.

OK, rant over.

See, now this is the type of Karsa-related criticism that makes no sense to me at all.

First....Karsa was in Deadhouse Gates. He didn't come out of nowhere, though his place as a central character certainly did. Second...how can you imply that we were aware of all of the 'checks and balances' and rules of the Malazan world by the end of book 3? We certainly did not have a complete picture of the world...or even the major players in the story we are being told...by that point. Third....we haven't seen him face some of the major powers in the book, so it's ridiculous to say he'll never face any real danger. And fourth....as noted in my earlier posts, the objection that 'he is super powerful for no reason!' is a poor one given that we have so much left to read in the series.

[Whiskeyjack]

I thought there was a line in BH about how some Toblaki (sp?) could become a warren unto themselves.

Yep, that is in there, and it supports what I'm saying - that there's a lot about Karsa that we just don't know yet.

[Kalbear]

That might be, WJ, but he's such a shit character that I just don't care. He might have super awesome whatever and justify his being powerful in whatever way it works in Malazan (which appears to be mostly handwaving anyway to me, but...meh) - but really, even if they explained perfectly where he got his uberl33tness, I still wouldn't care - because at that point he's a well explained asshole who goes around and wrecks things and is ridiculously overpowered. Sure, I know why he's overpowered, but that doesn't actually help me or make me want to read about him any more than I have to.

[Annelise]

IIRC, he refuses to fall in with the Crippled God (really do need to do a re-read).

Me too, esp. need to reread BH but I haven't gotten it back. Doesn't Karsa become knight of the House of Chains somewhere?

I'm in the prolonged Karsa prologue detracted in HoC camp, but he's just one character of many. It'd be hypocritical for me to criticize his uberness since I enjoy that in many of the other characters. Hehe. There's always some character I'm not very interested in w/ large cast of characters and/or who's POV interesting or as interesting, due to their storyline. It was Brienne in Feast, for instance.

Edited to add: Heboric and that jade statue was another, IIRC. I tried, but it lost me, figured someone would explain it to me later, if/when it became important.

Edit2: I did just reread the punitive army of 3 the other day. That part always rocks.