The Best Thing Jaime Could Do

[Benjen Snow]

I've been lurking for a few years and don't recall this thought coming up but in his last Feast Chapter Jaime thinks he needs to pry Tommen away from Cersei. It is a long shot but as things go to Pot for Lannister/Not-Barreathon, Jaime should escape across the Narrow Sea with Tommen and raise his son to be the man he never could be as King. It won't happen but in my mind it would be about the best way for the somewhat redeemed Jaime to finish his story; being a real Father even if his child is the get of incest.

Zeee-Chief

[Brother Wolf]

After reading the Jaime chapter where Tommen runs away from Tywin's corpse and Jaime runs after him, I thought that, at the least, Jaime will start acting like a father figure to Tommen, even if Tommen never finds out that Jaime is really his father. I got the sense from a few passages as Jaime was "changing" that he regretted never being able to be a father to Joff, so perhaps he will seize any opportunity he has with Tommen. Of course, Tommen's time might be short since GRRM doesn't seem to let kings live too long.

[Ser Romin]

Tommen will be Jaime's redemption. I believe Jaime is heading to King's Landing and is going to right the wrongs, for starters by seizing power from Cersei. Tommen will be raised to be honourable, just and everything that Jaime wanted to be; just like Arhur Dayne. Tommen is a character that would have benefitted tremendously from the 5 year gap, which is a main reason why I am a little ticked that it got removed. Tommen is a good hearted little boy, who lacks the evilness of Joffrey and he clearly shows that he opposes his mom's evil behaviour as well. If Jaime can begin to raise Tommen he really could become quite the King. I hope that Tommen is still King when Dany lands, as it will be very interesting.

[Descent]

The interesting thing about Jaime is that he seems to be trying to pursue some kind of path towards redemption but has no idea of how to go about it. One thing I enjoy about this author is that such things are not simple--as they are not simple in life. His whole sense of identity has been shattered. It will be interesting to see if he simply crumbles or is renewed. Trying to help at least one of his children might at least be a genuine heroism. I found myself rather liking him more and more. In a way he wants to be a good knight but the sort of life he has led has made that next to impossible.

One huge contrast between Joffrey and Tommen is mention of their treatment of cats--with Joffrey having cut one open to find the kittens (psycho!) and Tommen playing with them and giving them chivalrous names. There's hope for the boy...hopefully.

[Ser Skywalker]

There may be hope for Tommen. However, he is the child of adultery and incest. Also, his mother is in a cell awaiting trial, his assumed father murdered, and his real father the Kingslayer, a Lannister. Life is about to become hard for every Lannister. When the shit hits the fan in King's Landing, someone (hopefully Jaime) has to spirit away Tommen before the Sparrows and the mob storm the keep and kill every Lannister within reach. Hope for Tommen lies with Jaime.

[The Dark Griffin]

I've never much liked Jaime, nor Tommen, nor any Lannisters save Tyrion. Having said that, does it matter much whether there's hope for Tommen? He's a child, and what's more a child of incest as several have pointed out. His claim is worthless, or will be when Dany and her crew arrive. Maybe I'm heartless but I don't much care about the little guy.

[snake]

Best thing the Kingslayer could do?

Die, I'd say and take his abominations with him.

[Benjen Snow]

It would be worth Jaime having to exit center stage and leave Westeros for him to find redemption. Let him trade his aspirations of becoming a great knight again for saving Tommen and heading to the Free Cities and perhaps making something out of Tommen.

[Brother Wolf]

I've never much liked Jaime, nor Tommen, nor any Lannisters save Tyrion.

I don't think we were supposed to like Jaime (or any of the Lannisters) in the beginning. In fact, Jaime was my "most hated character" until Joffrey took it upon himself to take Eddard's head. It's arguable whether or not Jaime is likable now (I'm starting to come around), but I do pity Tommen. Here's an 8 year old kid who's had his (alleged) father die, his older brother die, his sister sent off to Dorne, had the crown thrust upon him, made to marry a woman who's much older and his mother now imprisoned. That's a crappy childhood in my book, and none of it is of his doing/choosing. I don't think he's going to survive the series, and that won't necessarily devastate me, but I do feel sorry for him.

[Ser Romin]

I've never much liked Jaime, nor Tommen, nor any Lannisters save Tyrion. Having said that, does it matter much whether there's hope for Tommen? He's a child, and what's more a child of incest as several have pointed out. His claim is worthless, or will be when Dany and her crew arrive. Maybe I'm heartless but I don't much care about the little guy.

Do you like Dany though? The Targs have been practicing incest for a very long time.

And yes it matters if there is hope for Tommen. What has the boy ever done? He may be born from incest, but unlike Joffrey, he is a good-hearted sweetheart who has not done anything wrong. So because he's a child born of incest he should be killed? His claim to the Iron Throne may not be very good, but his claim to the Rock certainly is valid. Jaime is a knight of the Kingsguard, thus cannot inherit the Rock. Tommen, however, is Jaime's son, so he is first in line to claim the Rock. Incest or not, that is how the laws of inheritance work in Westeros.

I would very much like to read a Jaime POV where there is chaos in the streets of King's Landing, either due to dragons or an unruly mob of peasants, and Jaime comes to the rescue of his son and together they flee King's Landing. Up until this point Jaime has not cared about his children because he was not allowed to (and he really didn't want to). It would go a long way to further develop Jaime's character if he started caring about Tommen and took the boy under his wing.

[Raven Queen]

The prophecy of Maggy the Frog indicates that all of Cersei's children will die before Cersei-- meaning, sooner rather than later. So Tommen's time is probably too short for him to play any real part in Jaime's redemption-- which is too bad, since I agree that Jaime seemed to regret his lack of involvement with Joffrey and probably wants to try to more of a guidance figure for Tommen. But any relationship that Tommen and Jaime develop will have to be short lived.

[The Dark Griffin]

Do you like Dany though? The Targs have been practicing incest for a very long time.

And yes it matters if there is hope for Tommen. What has the boy ever done? He may be born from incest, but unlike Joffrey, he is a good-hearted sweetheart who has not done anything wrong. So because he's a child born of incest he should be killed? His claim to the Iron Throne may not be very good, but his claim to the Rock certainly is valid. Jaime is a knight of the Kingsguard, thus cannot inherit the Rock. Tommen, however, is Jaime's son, so he is first in line to claim the Rock. Incest or not, that is how the laws of inheritance work in Westeros.

I would very much like to read a Jaime POV where there is chaos in the streets of King's Landing, either due to dragons or an unruly mob of peasants, and Jaime comes to the rescue of his son and together they flee King's Landing. Up until this point Jaime has not cared about his children because he was not allowed to (and he really didn't want to). It would go a long way to further develop Jaime's character if he started caring about Tommen and took the boy under his wing.

I do like Dany, she's a tough girl and an interesting character to me. The incest is not what turns me off (ok, that sounds so wrong!). To me, Tommen is just a soft, sad little butterball that may deserve sympathy, but little else. Virtue and honor and sweetness will get you a hot cup of Jack Squat when it comes to the Game of Thrones. Poor Tommen, I know... but part of the appeal of this world, at least to me, is that it's a gritty, tough place where the good guys aren't clear, and don't always come out on top.

And I don't see Jaime caring for anyone but himself. Although that is starting to change, and I agree that Tommen and Myrcella could serve as a catalyst for that. Anyway, it's all subjective and we can all find things to love (or hate) about each character, which is why this series is so intriguing.

[Blackstone]

Getting Cersei out of the picture would be about the best thing that he could actually do -- which is different from the best thing he should do.

House Lannister has alot of advantages -- including being a large and wealthy family with a strong fortress. But, they are over-extended now and have dubious leadership and don't lack for enemies, and Cersei makes more enemies every day. Tywin's formidable reputation protected House Lannister against many, who would not gamble against him. With him gone, many will seek to test Cersei and will find her lacking.

House Tyrell supports them only for so long as the Lannisters have the power to give them land, honors, offices.

In a certain sense the only thing that stands between them and utter ruin is a fat little boy who is a few years too young to make an heir. Once he makes an heir of Tyrell blood, well there is no reason for the Lannisters at all.

[Kimera757]

Being a father figure to Tommen would be a horrible idea, and would also draw suspicion. Someone else the raise the kid; in fact, now that Cersei is in jail, someone else is.

[universehair]

The prophecy of Maggy the Frog indicates that all of Cersei's children will die before Cersei-- meaning, sooner rather than later. So Tommen's time is probably too short for him to play any real part in Jaime's redemption-- which is too bad, since I agree that Jaime seemed to regret his lack of involvement with Joffrey and probably wants to try to more of a guidance figure for Tommen. But any relationship that Tommen and Jaime develop will have to be short lived.

First off, I think there may be a good deal of room for interpretation in Maggy the Frog's prophesy, but the crowns of gold/ shrouds of gold part seems pretty clear, alas poor Tommen. So assuming all three kids die, what do you think WILL be Jaime's reaction when his last child dies? Could be a very good scene. What will he be impelled to do? (aside from the temptation to wrap his hands around a certain slender neck)

[Daemrion]

Tommen, however, is Jaime's son, so he is first in line to claim the Rock. Incest or not, that is how the laws of inheritance work in Westeros.

No, those born on the wrong side of the sheets don't inherit unless officially deemed to be on the right side of the sheets.

I do like Dany, she's a tough girl and an interesting character to me. The incest is not what turns me off (ok, that sounds so wrong!). To me, Tommen is just a soft, sad little butterball that may deserve sympathy, but little else. Virtue and honor and sweetness will get you a hot cup of Jack Squat when it comes to the Game of Thrones. Poor Tommen, I know... but part of the appeal of this world, at least to me, is that it's a gritty, tough place where the good guys aren't clear, and don't always come out on top.

Tommen hasn't had much of a chance to develop as his own character, he also doesn't have his own POV either. He's only ten as well compared to Dany's sixteen or seventeen. and a lot of growing up occurs from the age of ten onwards for ppl in medieval era (cos' that's when they start page/squire/knight thing). Furthermore, Tommen has been sheltered by Cersei and Robert/Jaime are absent fathers for different reasons.

And anyway, Dany started out as a stupid naive scared biatch so I don't see why Tommen can't develop.

[Benjen Snow]

No, those born on the wrong side of the sheets don't inherit unless officially deemed to be on the right side of the sheets.

Tommen hasn't had much of a chance to develop as his own character, he also doesn't have his own POV either. He's only ten as well compared to Dany's sixteen or seventeen. and a lot of growing up occurs from the age of ten onwards for ppl in medieval era (cos' that's when they start page/squire/knight thing). Furthermore, Tommen has been sheltered by Cersei and Robert/Jaime are absent fathers for different reasons.

And anyway, Dany started out as a stupid naive scared biatch so I don't see why Tommen can't develop.

If Jaime would leave Westeros with Tommen in tow I think he could develop into a strong man but.......left In King's Landing his days are numbered and the court will not make a good person of him, ever.

[Mazrick]

The best thing Jaime could do is take the Black. At least he'd be of some use there.

[Godot]

It was interesting to see Jaime finally take his position as a knight of the kingsguard seriously, but I doubt that any of Jaime's kids have time remaining.

[The Pita]

And I don't see Jaime caring for anyone but himself. Although that is starting to change, and I agree that Tommen and Myrcella could serve as a catalyst for that. Anyway, it's all subjective and we can all find things to love (or hate) about each character, which is why this series is so intriguing.

I hate this thread, and this post is partly why.

Are we reading the same books here? In every Jaime chapter, love is mentioned. He did his most vile act out of compassion and kindness(He killed Aerys to stop the murder of innocents), and the fact that he can be a prick is completely understandable, seeing as when he does a favor to the world, it pays him back by giving him the finger. For 15 years he takes it, and excuse me if he's only loyal to his family, the only ones who don't hate him out of "honor". So yes, he attacked the person who is the main reason he's hated, to make sure his brother got out of that person's arms. But why is that a crime, to care for a brother, when the character "doesn't care about anyone but himself"?

Jaime is my favorite character in the Song, and mainly because he is a complex, emotional individual who finds himself lost after his greatest asset is taken away, and he realises that without it, his only course is to seek redemption for himself and others.

Don't give me this "Jaime is evil" crap that Martin has been feeding us through Ned's POV.

He is the best of his family. Tyrion might be kinder, but Jaime is a better person, all in all.

My GOD I hate it when I have these long rants.

And of course, he will die by the end of the series in redemption, though his children will die before him (Maggy the Frog's prophecy).

Tommen and Myrcella are going to die. My bet is Myrcella goes first.

DARKSTAR FTW!