Fallout 3

[Werthead]

What is funny is that Bethesda is proud of making the "biggest" RPG games, yet that barely have 4 or 5 noticeable npc´s. And they are special because they say one or two funny lines.

Except that Bethesda don't make the biggest RPGs. Maybe Daggerfall counts, but given that 95% of the game content was randomised, that hardly counts. Baldur's Gate II, for one, was much bigger than Oblivion, probably bigger than Morrowind as well.

[Sad King Billy]

I disagree on Morrowind: it has a very good (background) story. But it has a horrible presentation.

[Brude]

On of my beefs with Morrowind is that I managed to play that game for about 15 hours and never even touched any of the main story, never encountered it once...probably cause I never found the right people to talk to. So every quest I did get was something pretty minor. My friend played for a while and got involved in some plot to assassinate the King, which I assume is the main plot, but I never found that.

Largely why I got bored with it. For me it was just a sandbox with a few interesting quests and an amazing feel - but I never found the story.

Oblivion at least gets you into the meat of things right away - also the side quests are more compelling, IMO.

[Ser Warpechowski]

I disagree on Morrowind: it has a very good (background) story. But it has a horrible presentation.

Big deal.

If I got Doom´s manual, there was a story there just as good as Oblivion.

I mean, hell, Doom´s idea is just as dumb as Oblivions: someone opens a portal and things from hell start coming over.

Of course, Doom had a better presentation.

[Ser Warpechowski]

On of my beefs with Morrowind is that I managed to play that game for about 15 hours and never even touched any of the main story, never encountered it once...probably cause I never found the right people to talk to. So every quest I did get was something pretty minor. My friend played for a while and got involved in some plot to assassinate the King, which I assume is the main plot, but I never found that.

Largely why I got bored with it. For me it was just a sandbox with a few interesting quests and an amazing feel - but I never found the story.

Oblivion at least gets you into the meat of things right away - also the side quests are more compelling, IMO.

No, you probabily found the main quest. The problem is that it is just as dumb and boring as everything else.

The game has no dialogues, no story, no worthy quests, nothing good at all.

[Sad King Billy]

first things first: NMA has scans & transcript of a game informer article on fallout 3. link.

the good:

-no level scaling.

-Level cap at 20.

-More risk to become radiated?

-Not for children, so hopefully full of mature themes: slavery, whores, etc. By which I don't mean boobies!!!! but a 'realistic' view of how a wasteland society is likely to evolve, namely a cold, hard place.

-You cannot be the arch mage leader of fighters guild assassin master thief all at once. Does this mean there will be quest branches?

-9-12 different endings.

-XP from quests rather than killings.

neutral:

-14 skills. While these are less than fallout's 18 skills, I can live with it, provided that ALL are useful, and if at all possible, provide a distinctly different feeling.

-

Bethesda is committed to offering options that will fit anyone's play style, whether that means sneaking past dangerous foes or talking your way through to a solution.

I donno. If this means that quests will have different possible solutions, then YAY. If, otoh, it's just '3 roads to the same destination', then NO!

-Karma system returns. I've never been a fan of it myself, but I suppose it falls under the "be true to the series" label.

-Dogmeat returns. Good, I suppose?

the bad: TOO MUCH PR TALK. Apart from that:

-irritating character creation process. What's wrong with a screen where you simply set some numbers & push some buttons and get on with it. This is Oblivion's starting dungeon all over again.

-WTF combat system??? Actually, I feel compelled to quote that section:

While you'll certainly be able to tackle enemies in real time first-person shooting, V.A.T.S. lets players pause time and select a target at their leisure. Once targeted, a zoomed-in view of that enemy will show all the places you could aim to hit the creature, and the percentage chance you'll succeed. This percentage is based on distance, enemy defense, his cover, as well as your ability with the weapon at hand, among other factors. Just like in the original Fallout, you'll have a set number of action points, largely based on your agility score. Every combat move you make will deplete this supply, at which point those AP will begin to regenerate in real time at a rate that also corresponds with your agility. Once you complete all your actions in V.A.T.S. you can continue to attack in real time, but this will dramatically slow the recharge of your action points, thereby encouraging tactical targeting over constant twitch shooting. As for those specific targets, which area you aim for will have a profound effect on your foe. Hit the arm of a super mutant, and he may not swing that massive cudgel at you with quite the same force as before. Shoot off the antenna of a mutated giant ant, and he'll go crazy and attack his brethren.[uh, okáááy...]

-Whole game will be 'bloody-mess'ed. With slow motion.

-GTA style radios?? Please no.

-Art: Fallouts original visual style seems completly lost. Note how they have replaced theVault Dwellers 50s comic style skin-tight Jumpsuit with more modern looking clothes. (comparison). The super mutant looks nothing like good olde lou or Marcus

-a handheld nuclear catapult. Let me repeat that: in Fallout 3, you'll have access to a handheld nuclear catapult... W.H.A.T.?

-This you've gotta read:

"Two impossibly large ants crawl toward you. Thinking quickly, you target one of the broken down cars near where the mutated insects are passing. A few shots find its engine, one of those old nuclear generators, and the ants and the car alike disappear into a small mushroom cloud."

-The setting seems abused. Supermutants and BoS were phenomena encountered on the west coast. Now, they might be able to spread, especially the BoS assuming that they reversed the downward spiral they were in during the time of Fallout 2 and changed their philosophy a bit. The supermutants were a product of the Master though, sterile to boot, which would mean no new mutants. Sure, there could be a bunch of old farts still alive since the process probably gives them severe longevity along with the other changes, but not a great number of them, especially on the other side of the nation. Unless there's somebody esle producing them that is. At least Fallout 2, for all its flaws, gave us a new enemy and downplayed the role of the BoS.

That's about the bulk of it. However, note that complex, game-changing moral choices and awesome quests are promised, but no examples are given. Colour me cautiously pessimistic.

____________________

next up:

Big deal.

If I got Doom´s manual, there was a story there just as good as Oblivion.

I mean, hell, Doom´s idea is just as dumb as Oblivions: someone opens a portal and things from hell start coming over.

Of course, Doom had a better presentation.

One of these is not like the other...

My friend played for a while and got involved in some plot to assassinate the King, which I assume is the main plot, but I never found that.

I think this is Oblivion's quest, not Morrowind. I can't remember anything about a king in Morrowind? We've got Vivec & the Tribunal vs Dagoth Ur, but you are never certain who betrayed who at the Battle of Red Mountain.

I apologise for the horrible layout of this post.

[Anya, Vengeance Demon]

I don't think clothing that looks a little baggier and more lived-in, or even the changing look of the supermutants, means that the 'visual sense' of the franchise has been lost. Most of the artwork fit perfectly well in the world as established; and if things look a little shabbier (not graphics, but in-game objects) that's all to the good as far as I'm concerned. And I'm not particularly bothered that the BoS and the supermutants are found in the East Coast; it would have been unusual if they had been left out entirely, and it's not clear from the article how large of a role they'll play in the story.

[Space Bandito]

Sadking - Character creation made Fallout what it was. That was 25% of the game. From creating a challenging character to the simple humor of it. If they kept that same complexity than I will be happy.

I am doing a happy dance about the elimination of level scaling.

[The Whiteravyn]

The thing I don't get is how there is not more of an uproar about the Fallout Sellout, I mean, come on, Isometric party-based rpg vs Oblivion with guns? Why is this not huge? Why is it being demo'ed on the xbox (look, I know why, but it shouldn't be)? I'm sorry, they've gotten tactical shooter in my Fallout (not that I have anything against tactical shooters, just not in my Fallout god damnit). I wish Bethesda would have just developed their own setting and game series rather than raping Fallout to make a few more bucks.

[Zulofritter]

Great article Billy.

Liam Neeson plays your character's father. Interesting that the Darkman actor is playing another character without a face.

[Xanrn]

What in the name of fuck is that stupid arse combat system?

They better be bloody joking because that is utter bollocks...

Why did they bother to buy the goddam license if all they are going to do is completely ignore what it means and rape it into the ground.

This is Oblivion with Guns, bunch of utter bullshit.

[Ser Vlad]

Meh, just the fact that it's going to be basically a console port should tip us off.

[zakalwe7]

Some real info

[Space Bandito]

Details indeed. Lets hope they deliver. Thanks. I hope my computer can handle a more detailed Oblivion. At least they are hiring more voice actors.

[Brys]

Maybe not being a fan of the original fallout series puts me at a disadvantage (not having played them), but what I've seen so far of Fallout 3 looks like it has some real potential. There seems to be a lot of complaints about how it differs from the original already, but I don't know how you can really tell that so early on. Some thoughts:

- Character of the game, ie its visual design, humour etc - the trailer doesn't show anything, and so far it's impossible to tell whether this has been kept or not, and will be until a lot more information is actually released.

- the viewpoint - according to one of the interviews, you can zoom out so that it's a pretty much isometric viewpoint. I know that the control will still be different, but it's not like Bethesda's doing anything unusual here - very few RPGs that have been released recently actually use an isometric view with controls only by orders from the mouse. To release it with just that view would be commercial suicide, and wouldn't necessarily make it any better at all. I don't think it's such a grounds for complaint. It only shows that Fallout 3 isn't a clone of the earlier ones, but with better graphics.

- Bethesda as a company - can we stop talking about the Elder Scrolls games? Yes, they offer some insight, but Morrowind and Oblivion differ immensely in their character, even though they are part of the same series. Amongst other things, the team working on Fallout 3 isn't identical to that working on Oblivion. There's no reason to assume that it will suffer a similarly pathetic storyline, because they're going to put a lot more effort into that by comparison, because that's the type of game it is. In ES, the storyline isn't important - very few people actually play it for that reason. Fallout's different, so I expect they'll put in a bit more effort. As for Bethesda "raping" the Fallout series - we don't know that they have done (and won't until its release) and I doubt that there is any company there that is both able to make this game and maintain perfectly its original character and not offend any of the original fans.

Anyway, hopefully this turns out to be a good game. From what I've seen so far, it has that potential.

PS Morrowind and its expansions had a reasonably good storyline, for a game - far more complex and morally ambiguous than what passed for a plot in Oblivion.

[Max the Mostly Mediocre]

There seems to be a lot of complaints about how it differs from the original already, but I don't know how you can really tell that so early on.

That's because you haven't played the first two

[Forderz]

and I doubt that there is any company there that is both able to make this game and maintain perfectly its original character and not offend any of the original fans.

Blizzard BEFORE WoW?

And Tactical Shooter? WTF. If I want a shooter I'll play Crysis. (Which keeps looking better and better btw)

[EHK for Darwin]

Brys, those are some good thoughts, but it sort of reminds me of the Transformers fandom once Michael Bay was announced to direct. Most of the place exploded. A few tried to explain that, 'Even though Michael Bay hasn't developed a character more complex in a Q-tip in his entire career, cares more about blowing shit up and slo-mo money shots than actually developing a story...doesn't mean he'll do the same thing this time.' Of course anyone who's seen the film knows these tentative 'wait and see'ers' were willfully naive...and wrong.

Sometimes you want to give the 'new' guys the benefit of the doubt. But when something has spentits entire life as a duck...it usually remains a damned duck.

[Xanrn]

Yes and when you have Todd Howard spouting stuff like "Violence is Funny". You begin to doubt it. He seems to think the humour in Fallout is toilet humour and people dying in amusing ways.

Then when Todd said he and the other developers were always fans, then admits he never played more than 30 minutes and most of the Dev team haven't even played the originals yet.

They raped the Canon, the FEV was localized on the West Cost, so were the Brotherhood of Steel. Yet now both Supermutants and BoS are magical bouncing around Washington for no reason.

Fatman and a something that sounds like the bastard child of the Gravity Gun and a electric toaster.

[Forderz]

"I don't give a flying fuck if your name is fucking Buck or Chuck"

My favourite line from that game.

And those damned Winnebagoes!