Comic Books

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

Sorry if I missed a link, but has Moore actually expressed outrage over this?

I do remember him snidely commenting there wasn't even "third rate talent" in comics anymore or some nonsense. It was more than a little over the top.

I haven't seen anything yet, but he wails and moans everytime one of his properties is farked with. See The Watchmen movie, V for Vendetta, From Hell or The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen.

[polishgenius]

Sorry if I missed a link, but has Moore actually expressed outrage over this?

Yes he has. Quote from him at the bottom of this article.

I do remember him snidely commenting there wasn't even "third rate talent" in comics anymore or some nonsense. It was more than a little over the top.

I went and checked this out (interview here.) and fuck me, much as I like his work, I find that the more I read of Moore's attitude, the more he comes of as a prize goon. I mean for fuck's sake, I wonder if he even knows who the likes of Jeff Lemire, Jonathan Hickman, Matt Fraction and Scott Snyder are?

It's pretty much par for the course that great comics creators get disillusioned with the mainstream American industry but his insistence on blaming the talent rather than the publishers is out of order.

[Sci-2]

I don't get why Dave Gibbons should thank Alan Moore for the Watchmen Money. Last I checked he drew the fucking thing.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

I get what you guys are saying, but I've always been inclined to give Moore the batshit crazy genius pass. His stuff is so good that I can forgive the ranting, ego fueled interviews.

[Nephrite]

I went and checked this out (interview here.) and fuck me, much as I like his work, I find that the more I read of Moore's attitude, the more he comes of as a prize goon.

I think my favorite thing about that interview is that one moment DC is a bunch of simpletons and in the next they are these Machiavellian schemers that are using his friends to blackmail him. You can't have it both ways. Either they are Homer Simpson or Littlefinger.

I mean for fuck's sake, I wonder if he even knows who the likes of Jeff Lemire, Jonathan Hickman, Matt Fraction and Scott Snyder are?

He doesn't. In his previous interviews he stated that he doesn't read comics. So he can't really know if there's any top-flight talent in the industry or not. He's just making a huge assumption. And he's also pissing on Blackest Night for being based on his old story. Never mind that his story was based on Gardner Fox story from the 60's.

There are folks that defend Moore's words by saying that he's saying them in jest and that it translates badly into print and if you only saw him on video saying it you'd see. But, since he's such a brilliant writer (Watchmen!), he should know that some spoken words might be misconstrued on paper/screen without smiley faces or whatever.

It's pretty much par for the course that great comics creators get disillusioned with the mainstream American industry but his insistence on blaming the talent rather than the publishers is out of order.

Jason Aaron's response was great.

I get a feeling he really thinks that Watchmen was the End-All of superhero comics and just doesn't understand why they kept publishing them afterward. That's why these days he's doing Cthulhu rape comics.

I don't get why Dave Gibbons should thank Alan Moore for the Watchmen Money. Last I checked he drew the fucking thing.

I think he means the money from the movies. Moore said that they should give that money to the artists.

David Lloyd apparently didn't show up at his doorstep on his knees and thanked him for it.

[mormont]

I don't get why Dave Gibbons should thank Alan Moore for the Watchmen Money. Last I checked he drew the fucking thing.

AFAIK this is a reference to Moore insisting that his share of the royalties go to Gibbons, ie in addition to Gibbons' own share.

Well, Straczynski has this to say:

There you go. Admit you always wanted to know this.

Shit. I really hope they have some better ideas than that.

What's funny is how much he's upset about this. Back when he was doing the book it was already known how much DC screwed Siegel and Shuster. So when they didn't give him the rights he got all "OMG a big multinational evil corporation screwed me over. How could this happen?"

To be fair to Moore, he's been critical of himself for being naive about this. And to be fair to DC, the essential problem seems to be that neither they nor Moore anticipated how successful Watchmen would be. The deal, as I understand it, was that the rights would revert to Moore after the series went out of print. Obviously, that's never happened. Moore's pissed off with DC because he believes they have manufactured unnecessary re-releases and so on to keep hold of the rights, but yeah, that's something you would expect any big publisher to do, so...

Also he wrote a comic where Dorothy has sex with Cowardly Lion. I'm pretty sure that L. Frank Baum didn't want that with his characters either.

There's a difference between reinterpretations of culturally iconic characters in the public domain, which has always been common practise, and the Watchmen situation, though.

I haven't seen anything yet, but he wails and moans everytime one of his properties is farked with.

Generally what actually happens is that people insist on calling him up and asking him what he thinks, which is not quite the same thing. The key line in the linked interview is about how people can do what they want, but he doesn't want his name attached. The trouble being, of course, that any project involving Watchmen can't help but be associated with Moore on some level. So, naturally, people want to know what he thinks, and being Moore, he tells them. And it does seem to depend on what mood he's in when they call. The BC interview seems to have been when he was in a particularly paranoid mood...

[Nephrite]

To be fair to Moore, he's been critical of himself for being naive about this. And to be fair to DC, the essential problem seems to be that neither they nor Moore anticipated how successful Watchmen would be. The deal, as I understand it, was that the rights would revert to Moore after the series went out of print. Obviously, that's never happened. Moore's pissed off with DC because he believes they have manufactured unnecessary re-releases and so on to keep hold of the rights, but yeah, that's something you would expect any big publisher to do, so...

Well, they probably kept it in print cause people kept buying it. What should've happened was some sort of renegotiating of the contracts so Moore and Gibbons get their rights back and DC keeps publishing the book. In a perfect world, that is.

Honestly I'm not an expert, but what would Moore do if he got the right back in those days? Take the book to another publisher? Keep it out of print? I mean this way he's getting money on a regular base for almost 30 years.

There's a difference between reinterpretations of culturally iconic characters in the public domain, which has always been common practise, and the Watchmen situation, though.

Yeah, Silk Spectre won't be sucking off a lion anytime soon.

[red snow]

i've been casually re-reading 100 bulletts over the last month or so and that is precisely why i will be checking the ones that he is involved in out. i don't remember if the one that jae lee is drawing is one of those but i will most definitely be checking out his work as well.

I reread 100 bullets before xmas and thoroughly enjoyed it, being able to see all the threads when reading it close together. I think i would have been even more excited if Risso was drawing one of these books with Azzarello. I need to check out the spaceman story they are doing with vertigo at the moment. Azzarello is untouchable when he's given the right project (batman) but he can be pretty dull when given the wrong one (Jim Lee's superman). The watchmen characters he's been given seem perfect though.

[Sci-2]

I'd be curious about your thoughts on the new Azzarello - it left me pretty bored tbh.

I can't recall if I mentioned it already, but one of my all time fav comics is The Filth by Grant Morrison.

[dornish prince]

the filth is an awesome story. nice call. definitely one of the times where morrison is firing on all cylinders.

[red snow]

I'd be curious about your thoughts on the new Azzarello - it left me pretty bored tbh.

I can't recall if I mentioned it already, but one of my all time fav comics is The Filth by Grant Morrison.

I haven't read the spaceman series by azzarello and risso yet but the reviews are solid. The most recent work i read from them was the flashpoint batman which was probably the best comic of last year and one of the best batman stories in years, If he can pull something like that off with Rorschach and the comedian then we'll be in for a treat,

The filth was excellent. I tried the invisbles but it wasn't fast enough. The Filth seemed to have enough pace to keep the weirdness entertaining. I suspect Morrison was one of the guys who rejected the offer of doing watchmen because he's most likely Moore's successor (Ellis when consistent could be a candidate too)

[Sci-2]

heh, well I'm one of the few who at times thinks morrison is better than moore, but then as I realized the last time I posed this question I don't know shit about comics outside the mainstream.

So now I have to hunt down Tezuka and a whole another set of writers/artists.

[red snow]

heh, well I'm one of the few who at times thinks morrison is better than moore, but then as I realized the last time I posed this question I don't know shit about comics outside the mainstream.

So now I have to hunt down Tezuka and a whole another set of writers/artists.

Morrison has a lot more range in that he can rein himself in and do good old fashioned super hero comics as well as the mindwarping stuff. With Batman he somehow managed to do mindwarping without me realising it.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

And in predictable Bitterman fashion, Alan Moore on the Watchmen prequels...

http://gammasquad.uproxx.com/2012/02/alan-moore-calls-before-watchman-prequels-completely-shameless

Moore victimized by Watchmen contract...

http://gammasquad.uproxx.com/2012/02/the-watchmen-prequels-an-ethics-stinkbomb

[polishgenius]

[sckma]

lol I was initially apprehensive when I heard about this, but considering who is involved (Azzarello!) I would actually check it out, I'm hoping it's good.

On a sidenote, what's everybody reading?

I'm reading:

• The Unwritten - probably my favourite series out now really enjoying the .5 series and the current plot, just hoping to understand the metaphysics of the world soon, it annoyed me at the beginning when I had no idea what was going on
  
• Scalped - on its final legs, and damn it's good. After the final issue I was left gobsmacked jaw hung open, 5 issues to go and far out it's making an incredible run1 (Vertigo and its creators clearly have a thing with 60 issue runs, hey I'm not complaining I much prefer an ending to my stories anyday!)
  
• Fatale - Love Brubaker/Philips combo, loved every Criminal arc (kinda meh about second incognito though), they are probably my favourite team, will buy anything they make, just too awesome! seriously, any lover of crime fiction and film noir, has to do themselves a favour and read this stuff, it literally is the best crime fiction you will come across. has essays on the genre as well, very informative.
  
• Chew - saw the Eisners it won, then heard the premise, and thought it was too oddball for my liking (note: this was after reading 'serious' dramatic comics so was in a different mindset). But having read the first issue it's surprisingly good! Very funny but the plot is enthralling as well
  
• Scarlet - Well whenever the damn thing comes out
  
• Recently read Habibi, might post a little review I did that later on, American Vampire (Sruvival of the fittest) was pretty decent considering it's about vampires will definitely look into that more, Spaceman pretty good as well, Richard Stark's Parker adaptations quite brilliant except didnt like the colour palette too much
  
• Looking forward to Saga by Brian k Vaughn coming out as well, that looks awesome as hell
  

Wow, didnt think that would be such a long post, my bad!

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

Scalped - on its final legs, and damn it's good. After the final issue I was left gobsmacked jaw hung open, 5 issues to go and far out it's making an incredible run1 (Vertigo and its creators clearly have a thing with 60 issue runs, hey I'm not complaining I much prefer an ending to my stories anyday!)

Loves me some Scalped. I've read the first seven TPBs and I'm eager to get caught up.

Just started collecting The Boys TPBs as I had too many holes in my singles run. I've pretty much given up on individual issues as I just don't get out to my local shop on a regular basis.

Just finished the first four TPBs of the Ultimates. Pretty fun, over the top, alternate universe Avengers tale.

[polishgenius]

Just finished the first four TPBs of the Ultimates. Pretty fun, over the top, alternate universe Avengers tale.

Don't read any more... Jeph Loeb takes over from Mark Millar and it goes spectacularly downhill.

Those four volumes are good though; probably the best work Millar has done, apart from maybe Red Son. Also, perhaps not coincidentally, the closest he's ever come to being Warren Ellis.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

Don't read any more... Jeph Loeb takes over from Mark Millar and it goes spectacularly downhill. Those four volumes are good though; probably the best work Millar has done, apart from maybe Red Son. Also, perhaps not coincidentally, the closest he's ever come to being Warren Ellis.

That's what I've been told. There's too much good stuff out there to waste time with books that have been pretty much universally panned.

I'm interested to see how closely the Avenger's movie is going to follow the second Ultimates TPB.

[Nephrite]

On a sidenote, what's everybody reading?

As you mentioned Unwritten & Scalped, also:

Action Comics - Hey, it's Morison on Superman. It's not really firing on all cylinders, but the last two issues were chockful of awesome concepts and little tidbits I hope Morrison will expand on in future issues. If only they would get rid of Morales and his fugly art.

Casanova - the only thing by Fraction that I love.

Daredevil - Probably the best capes book out there. When Mark Waid hitsit out of the ballpark, the ball goes into space.

Demon Knights - It's okay. I think a bit too many characters were introduced in a short time so it feels cramped.

Fantastic Four & FF - Hickman rules and really makes every character shine.

Green Lantern - I don't know why I'm reading this. Maybe I'm hoping Sinestro is gonna kill Hal Jordan and I wanne be there when it happens. And I hope Sinestro turns to the "camera" and winks and says: "This one's for you, Nef. You deserve it. I'm going after Green Arrow now."

I, Vampire - This is great. It's a bit shame it's in the regular DCU, cause It could work just fine without a guest appearance by the in-house condescending jerk Batman.

iZombie - Cool and quirky.

Incorruptible & Irredeemable - Mark Waid's hero turns bad/villain gets good epic. It ends soon, and it's a shame, but with the current developments it can't go on for much longer.

Justice League - Oh, God. I hate myself for this one. It's just fucking bad. There's no other way to put it. Characters just spit out phrases that feel vaguely in character for them. Wonder Woman is all about fighting. That Geoff! Johns! He sure knows how to peel all that excess baggage and get to the character core. Sweet two-dimensional core. And when Wonder Woman is concerned that core is stabbing something.

Cyborg isn't about anything, also. Aquaman has sideburns. Hal Jordan is alive. Batman does something so profoundly out of character and for unexplained reasons that I still can't process it.

The whole plot... well there's no plot to speak of. Some Parademons appear, then Darkseid shows up and starts wrestling with Green Lantern. Suddenly all those other shitty Darkseid appearances over the years seem great.

Justice League Dark - I'm reading this because of Milligan. That man bought an endless supply of good will from me on the account of Shade, The Changing Man. It's good so far.

Morning Glories - Lost meets Breakfast Club. Or whatever the tagline might be. It's pretty great. Although something has to be wrong with me cause my favorite character is Ike. Maybe, cause I always like those guys who are clearly jerks and everybody treats them as such. I just assume there has to be something more to them.

Red Hood and the Outlaws - It's not horrible and it's kind of fun. I couldn't care less about the portrayal of Starfire. Pretty much everybody from the Titans is fair game for character assassination. Or in Cyborg's case straight-up assassination.

Resurrection Man - One of the better relaunches, probably cause they are not trying to reinvent hot water.

Spaceman - It's Azzarello & Risso. Like I wouldn't read this.

The Shade - Turns out James Robinson is shitty only when he's writing Superman or Justice League.

The Strange Talent of Luther Strode - Loser geek gets one of those Charles Atlas books and gets big.This thing takes violence on a whole new level. I bet even Mark Millar is speechless.

The Stuff of Legend - In1944 a small kid gets kidnapped by The Boogeyman and his toys go into the closet to rescue him. It's fucking great with beautiful art.

Uncanny X-Force - The best X-Men title out there.

Wolverine & The X-Men - Second best.

Wonder Woman - Hey, Azzarello made Wonder Woman... you know, interesting.

Boy, I read a lot. Funny cause it always seems to me like I never have the time anymore.