persia Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 When I read the first two books I was completely enthralled. They rocked, plain and hard. He had a strange style, summers and winters that last years at a time, the others, the old gods, "winter is coming" the talk about dragons and valyria. This all was great but when AFFC came out I thought it would be amazing. But it was not as good as the others. Though still amazing, it wasn't up to par with them. To me the book summarized (excluding Arya, and Sam's chapters)in 1 sentence would be much like this. "Oh know there are people plotting, lets plot back and have war. (Somewhere else ie. ironmen)Lets plot to take the throne. (Somewhere else again ie. dorne)I will plot to take this girl and crown her as queen." Your thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faceless Man Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 When I read the first two books I was completely enthralled. They rocked, plain and hard. He had a strange style, summers and winters that last years at a time, the others, the old gods, "winter is coming" the talk about dragons and valyria. This all was great but when AFFC came out I thought it would be amazing. But it was not as good as the others. Though still amazing, it wasn't up to par with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The hairy bear Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 I don't Regardless of your consideration of Feast compared to the previous book, bear in mind that this has been in many ways the more difficult book for George to write. It wasn't planed beforehand, he had to introduce new cultures, he had to put every character were he needed to be. At least you should agree that if that's Martin at his worst, Martin is damned good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimme Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 Your thoughts? This topic has been discussed elsewhere, but I don't have a link. I disagree, heartily! I love GRRM's writing because I enjoy the complexity of the characters, and the minute details of the plot. A two or three sentence summary, no matter how well crafted, won't work. At all. And I think when I finally get to finish the series, I will be glad that I got all these details and characterizations. That's not to say that I think this book was as good as the first three, but I consider AFFC to be a "bridge" to the series end. It sets up a lot of important details we will need for the final showdown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yana Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 I don't Regardless of your consideration of Feast compared to the previous book, bear in mind that this has been in many ways the more difficult book for George to write. It wasn't planed beforehand, he had to introduce new cultures, he had to put every character were he needed to be. At least you should agree that if that's Martin at his worst, Martin is damned good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashara Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 As noted, it was discussed elsewhere, but in summary, my (oh! so interesting to all of you) opinion is that the Feast could have benefited from editing and being amalgamated with what now is called the Dance with the Dragons. P.S: And, just in case I did not mention it enough times: I love Brienne's Travelogues and Cersei's recollections of Rhaegar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aman Groan Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 AFFC is probably my second favorite book in the series. So no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faceless Man Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 I don't Regardless of your consideration of Feast compared to the previous book, bear in mind that this has been in many ways the more difficult book for George to write. It wasn't planed beforehand, he had to introduce new cultures, he had to put every character were he needed to be. At least you should agree that if that's Martin at his worst, Martin is damned good! Let me explain now: I do agree with the original statement that AFFC isn't up to GRRM's standards, however I also agree that the reason it isn't up to standards is that is wasn't designed to be one book. I think having to split and comepletely redo most of the book is the reason for it's miniscule lacking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krafus Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 I agree AFFC isn't quite up to par with the rest of the series. However, given the troubles GRRM had with it, it's still a wonderful read - in fact, by far the best fantasy novel I've read this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bran's Muffin Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 Let me explain now: I do agree with the original statement that AFFC isn't up to GRRM's standards, however I also agree that the reason it isn't up to standards is that is wasn't designed to be one book. I think having to split and comepletely redo most of the book is the reason for it's miniscule lacking I agree with this (but feel the I agree emoticon is getting frightfully over-used in this thread!). This isn't a book, it's part of one. Try reading GoT by skipping Jon, Dany, Bran and Tyrion's chapters. Is it good? Yes. Is it the same book? No. I think everyone should reserve judgement until ADWD comes out. And personally I felt there were some really great moments in this half-book already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaqui Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 To me the book summarized (excluding Arya, and Sam's chapters)in 1 sentence would be much like this. "Oh know there are people plotting, lets plot back and have war. (Somewhere else ie. ironmen)Lets plot to take the throne. (Somewhere else again ie. dorne)I will plot to take this girl and crown her as queen." Your thoughts? Um, you could virtually sum up the other books in the same way. Example: ACoK - People plot a lot. Joff and Stannis have a big impressive battle, Renly kicks the bucket. Dany runs around the Free Cities. Jon goes ranging. Huzzah. If you were looking for a huge battle or really shocking deaths (it seems us fans want a quota on how many leads die in each book ), it isn't in AFfC. Maybe you're missing your favorite POV's too. AFfC did have a different feel to it because of these things, I think, but at the same time we learned about two integral groups in Westeros (Ironborn and Dorne) and the motivations behind some important people, namely Cersei. Overall Feast was more introspective, and maybe that's not your style, but I get the feeling it's the calm before the storm. Once ADwD catches the other POV's up, the story should really take off. Feast and Dance are Martin's way of putting all the pieces in place. Edit: Ugh, that was a stupid mistake. It's been a long day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monboddo Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 I disagree completely. GRRM has not lost his touch. AFFC was as great as its predecessors. And now, for a nasty Monboddo aside: I suggest that those who believe as the author of this fascinating thread share with him/her a profound confusion as to what good writing is and, specifically, what GRRM has been building towards. Have a great weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mon43 Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 I would doubt that GRRM has seen the last of his problems with the series, and it is being hopeful to think that he will go back to his old routine of a book every 2 years. For 5 years work AFFC was underwhelming, enjoyable but nothing about felt as energised or a s essential as the first 3 books. And yes i know that he had to scrap parts and start again. In hindsight i wonder if he would have preferred to release half the story of all the pov's rather than as he has. Momentum has been lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persia Posted December 9, 2005 Author Share Posted December 9, 2005 True about a DWD but nonetheless the story did start to get repetitive after I kept reading about plots to overthrow the throne, I know that was the subject it could have been improved slightly. I agree that he was rushed/overworked so I guess that counts for something..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monboddo Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 :mad: Functional illiteracy . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unJon Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 And now, for a nasty Monboddo aside: I suggest that those who believe as the author of this fascinating thread share with him/her a profound confusion as to what good writing is and, specifically, what GRRM has been building towards. No fair. Both opinions are valid and defensible. And it's at least honest. There are those that would defend AFFC not on its merits but because it was written by GRRM. You know who you are, and that shows "profound confusion." At any rate, I liked AFFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attinctus Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 Kind of a side issue.. The part of the whole series I'm keeping an eye on is Arya. To me she has borderline Ewok Syndrome, i.e. a character that exceeds its rational capacity like stupid happy teddy bears killing Stormtroopers with rocks. Or hobbits wasting armored orcs with a frying pan -- or rocks. I don't expect 'realism' out of a fantasy novel but it does need to be coherent. Anyway, I don't think Arya has gotten ahead of herself yet but she gets close. On the other hand, I know Jaime was totally bad at 15 so maybe Arya's in the ballpark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashara Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 It appears that in Westeros, people are an exaggerated race: they grow taller, they mature quicker and are stronger than the Real World TM humans. What if the great revelation of the whole series will be that it's the Others/Children of the Forest who are "human" while the ones we thought to be humans all along were the super-race? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monboddo Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 unJon-- No, you're wrong. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faceless Man Posted December 9, 2005 Share Posted December 9, 2005 It appears that in Westeros, people are an exaggerated race: they grow taller, they mature quicker and are stronger than the Real World TM humans. What if the great revelation of the whole series will be that it's the Others/Children of the Forest who are "human" while the ones we thought to be humans all along were the super-race? Well then I might just have to eat myself out of shame for supporting that series... But I'm pretty sure Tyrion is more likely to become the new Sword of the Morning than that happen...so I'm not too worried... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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