Isis Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 Can of worms to even think of it, but well, maybe there is indeed a bias there. Because Joe Cole, that was two red cards IMO, and a ban ( plus, if he tried that against some teams, he would get beat up for sure for it).I honestly think it is simply the unbelievably poor standard of refereeing in this country. I end up switching games off because it is SO annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cteresa Posted September 24, 2007 Share Posted September 24, 2007 I honestly think it is simply the unbelievably poor standard of refereeing in this country. I end up switching games off because it is SO annoying. *blinks* for curiosity, where do you think refereeing is better? BTW bias would be a part of awful refereeing not something distinct. I think english referees let a lot of physical ( the "scrappy" style, the so called "tackles" like Joe Cole´s last night which are in no way a tackle but just agression) things slide but it´s a cultural thing I guess - as long as people do not try to impose premiership refereeing standards on international or other league games, whatever. UEFA or FIFA will instruct and select referees for international situations and that will be that. But not sure who on earth has got better refereeing - and the example of last night´s looks like both teams got an argument against the referee, can be a typical bumble by a referee who later tries to correct and balance sides, it might not be pretty to see but does not seem corrupt or like he was bought. On Spain half the matches seem to end up with players sent off sometimes for silly reasons ( like celebrating a goal) and nevermind the conspiracy theories there are. Italy and Germany got court proved match fixing scandals in their history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isis Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 I don't get the time now to watch non EPL football anymore so I can't really answer that question. I just said 'in this country' to be clear that I wasn't referring to anywhere except England. You would think that because the English game is faster and more physical that refs would tolerate more from players here. Yet the problem is inconsistency. Some refs on some weeks will book players according to the letter of the law, on their next match they might just 'let the game flow' and not show any cards. It's impossible to know what 'type' of refereeing you will get in any given game. It's ridiculous. Can I just say how hilarious it is that Fergie has complained about players not getting booked when they deserve to? What about Scholes, Keane, Butt etc What a knob that man is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereward Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 Some refs on some weeks will book players according to the letter of the law, on their next match they might just 'let the game flow' and not show any cards. It's impossible to know what 'type' of refereeing you will get in any given game. It's ridiculous. This is nothing compared with the problem in rugby, where pretty much any situation could lead to either team being penalised for half a dozen different things, depending on the referee's philosophy of the game and personal bugbears. Generally, this is accepted and players learn to play to what the ref will and will not allow. Not too difficult, most of the time. Course, rugby players are a lot brighter than footballers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cteresa Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 I don't get the time now to watch non EPL football anymore so I can't really answer that question. I just said 'in this country' to be clear that I wasn't referring to anywhere except England. You would think that because the English game is faster and more physical that refs would tolerate more from players here. They do tolerate more, I assure you that. And give far less cards. Not sure how that might relate to injuries and chronic injuries and players burning out sooner than, say, in Italy. The things which are let slide as "tackles" are astounding, british referees are a lot more lenient on things like fouls on goalkeeper and use of elbows. Yet the problem is inconsistency. Some refs on some weeks will book players according to the letter of the law, on their next match they might just 'let the game flow' and not show any cards. It's impossible to know what 'type' of refereeing you will get in any given game. It's ridiculous. They can try for consistency. I am not sure it is ever completely possible, even with 4th officials and (eventually) tv replays, somebody who is actually there is always going to see and feel things differently than somebody on the stands. I think it has been proved that home crowds can influence referees (only in stadiums without athletic tracks, though, pretty lame things to have) and there are other factors which might be unconscious. Like IMO, in this case and that other Chelsea game, the guys with red cards were well, you know, what did they have on common? But if you are talking of any real $€£ deals involving referees, look, it has happened before - in some local cases apparently where investigation is ongoing it was not exchange of money exactly, but travel vouchers and sexual favours with prostitues paid by club officials. Better not assign to corruption what can be explained by incompetence (specially when you see people arguing evils of referees you can sort of notice how their opinions are completely different according to affiliations) but still better keeping watch is important. BTW - perfect refereeing, does not exist, in any league, not sure I could pick one as superior to another. There are some very good referees but even they make mistakes or got bad games. And then FIFA tries so hard to have the very best refereeing possible for world cups and you got things like south korea´s progress in 2002, and 3 yellow card games... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isis Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 I think that the attempt at consistency is marred by having 'hot topics'. After a weekend where lots of cards are shown there will be complaints by managers and there'll be a notable drop in the number of cards shown the next week OR tackling from behind might be the 'popular' thing to complain about so everyone who even looks like they might have done so gets a yellow card for it. There's a lot of knee-jerk reaction in EPL refereeing. I completely agree that you cannot have perfect refereeing or absolute consistency and somebody will always be unhappy with the ref's decision. But at times like this I just get sick of it, it's like watching WWF or something, it doesn't feel genuine anymore. Hereward: I'm damned sure they are brighter than footballers. Also the goalposts are moved all the time in football reffing which seems to be predominantly media-driven. Nobody has time to get used to anything. Actually I gave up faith in football when it became possible to NOT be offside (even though you ARE) if you were not interfering with play. Which old git said, 'if you aren't interfering with play you shouldn't be on the pitch.'? Harry Redknapp? Clough? Dunno. Spot on though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJDonegal Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 Richest club in Britain. Let me feel your hate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xray the Enforcer Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 It's more pleasant to simply ignore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltaran Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 Richest club in Britain. Let me feel your hate. I prefer to direct it at Malcolm Glazer, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJDonegal Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 That's understandable. Really... really understandable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Sean Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 Richest club in Britain. Let me feel your hate. Yes, I'm sure you have more money than Mr Abramovich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cteresa Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 so, all this talk of whose club has more money, bribing referees has somehow become legal and nobody told me, or they giving the european cup to clubs whose stock is highest or there is something escaping me? money. geesh. nouveau!!! I mean bragging about players, even players hired in 1922 or games in 1954, or your stadium or your trophy cabinet, or your fans, or the glory of your perfect pitch (ahah, not sporting fans then) or your colors is one thing. Money? does it guarantee anything in football and nobody told me yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H von T Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 Yes, I'm sure you have more money than Mr Abramovich. But that's stupid money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Barry Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 This is nothing compared with the problem in rugby, where pretty much any situation could lead to either team being penalised for half a dozen different things, depending on the referee's philosophy of the game and personal bugbears. Generally, this is accepted and players learn to play to what the ref will and will not allow. Not too difficult, most of the time. Part of every teams warm-up is a reminder to play the ref and after the first few decisions tactics specific to the refs interpretation are set during breaks in play. This requires players to understand that the ref is in charge which would be a nice start in football. I think that the attempt at consistency is marred by having 'hot topics'. After a weekend where lots of cards are shown there will be complaints by managers and there'll be a notable drop in the number of cards shown the next week OR tackling from behind might be the 'popular' thing to complain about so everyone who even looks like they might have done so gets a yellow card for it. There's a lot of knee-jerk reaction in EPL refereeing. TBH the same thing happens in rugby. There are hot topics and the IRB make statements before tournaments as to what the refs will be clamping down on, I know FIFA do the same but teams will train with a ref so as to adjust to the new tactics. This even happened at the equivalent of Conference level when I was training at that level, we had different refs ref our training so we knew what to expect. This sort of foresight would of course be beyond companies with £200m turnovers though. I guess the difference is that in rugby we seem to adapt to refs and understand that there will be inconsistencies but in football they prefer to whine and whinge to escape having to act like mature professionals. But then we all know rugby>football Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antonius Pius Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 Can I just say how hilarious it is that Fergie has complained about players not getting booked when they deserve to? What about Scholes, Keane, Butt etc What a knob that man is. Classical sportsman-myopia: rules only apply to opponents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltaran Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 Classical sportsman-myopia: rules only apply to opponents. Main exponent: Arsene "I did not see the incident so I cannot comment" Wenger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koudoulis Posted September 25, 2007 Share Posted September 25, 2007 Main exponent: Arsene "I did not see the incident so I cannot comment" Wenger. i say that in Football Manager all the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Baelish Posted September 26, 2007 Share Posted September 26, 2007 The best thing in Football Manager is when your assistant manager tells you what to do. I was in charge of Swindon, and Gus Poyet was my player-assistant manager. He got sent off for headbutting someone, and then told me he didn't know whether to appeal or not because he "did not see the incident". Damn nutcase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Iceman of the North Posted September 26, 2007 Share Posted September 26, 2007 Well, if he was headbutting someone he was probably looking at the ground at the moment, so he didn't actually "see" the incident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koudoulis Posted September 26, 2007 Share Posted September 26, 2007 ah poyet .. pure class :bow: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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