MMA 2: The Thread of Champions.

[Ser Barry]

Actually the CSAC has no power to remove Sherk's title, nullify his win or in any way affect his contract with UFC. What they can do is withold his licence in California and fine him a few thousand dollars. UFC would be stupid to fight him elsewhere while his licence is suspended but him keeping his title is well onn the cards. Especially given that Baroni only got 6 months suspension. Sherk would be ready to fight Penn/Joe in late spring.

[Horus Ex Machina]

Actually the CSAC has no power to remove Sherk's title, nullify his win or in any way affect his contract with UFC. What they can do is withold his licence in California and fine him a few thousand dollars. UFC would be stupid to fight him elsewhere while his licence is suspended but him keeping his title is well onn the cards. Especially given that Baroni only got 6 months suspension. Sherk would be ready to fight Penn/Joe in late spring.

DW and the UFC aren't obligated to do anything the CSAC says, including allowing them to appoint the judges, sanction the contests, or even drug test the fighters. The UFC can fight outside of jurisdiction or in Europe.

However DW has stated time and again that, while he doesn't feel that Sherk is guilty, he will strip him of the title if he does not pass his appeal. It is DW's decision yes, but that wasn't my point.

The point is to eliminate the UFC from any situation that might concievably be seen as showing favoritism. Especially with regards to possibly ignoring any state athletic comission ruling. It's a Pandora's Box that the UFC has been trying to avoid opening since they offered to cooperate with state regulating bodies to avoid being banned.

Anytime anyone questions the UFC's steroid policy all DW has to do is raise his hands and say "the state athletic comissions govern that according to law. End of discussion." But he can't do that if the UFC starts to pick and choose when to officially recognise a commission's ruling.

[Ser Barry]

Sherk's hearing has been put back by CSAC to 4th December. At what point are their actions so unprofessional that they can just be ignored?

In further news, Riddick Bowe has been slated to make his MMA debut in mid-December despite admitting that he had never, as in ever, trained on the mat in his life.

[Ken Stone]

I've got kind of a n00b question. Basically I don't understand something about the weight classes. Take Welterweight. It is supposed to be at 170 lbs, but it seems like often you see guys weighing in at 171 and it is okay. In fact that happened last night on UF. Are you allowed to be over by up to 1 lb?

[Stego]

In further news, Riddick Bowe has been slated to make his MMA debut in mid-December despite admitting that he had never, as in ever, trained on the mat in his life.

That is must-see TV. He will die unless they put him up against a drooling mongoloid.

[Ser Barry]

I've got kind of a n00b question. Basically I don't understand something about the weight classes. Take Welterweight. It is supposed to be at 170 lbs, but it seems like often you see guys weighing in at 171 and it is okay. In fact that happened last night on UF. Are you allowed to be over by up to 1 lb?

Most, if not all, organisations give the fighters a one pound allowance.

Or if you are a good looking chick (cough Gina cough) they pretty much let you weigh in at whatever the hell you like.

[Analu]

In further news, Riddick Bowe has been slated to make his MMA debut in mid-December despite admitting that he had never, as in ever, trained on the mat in his life.

Someone should show him the Ray Mercer fight. Isn't Riddick also the boxer who joined the Marine Corps, couldn't hack it in boot camp, and quit after a week? He's going to get destroyed and deservedly so. At least guys like Brock and Kimbo respect the sport and have been in serious training. Bowe sounds like he's just doing it to do it and has no idea what he's getting himself into.

I like how Brock chose Frank Mir as his first opponent. Mir's no can, though he's taken some ugly losses recently. Still, it should be a good test for him, and shows me that he's taking this seriously.

Most, if not all, organisations give the fighters a one pound allowance.

To add to this, even if the fighter is more than 1 lb over, they'll usually ask their opponent if he/she is okay with it, and if they are, then the fight will still go on.

As for Gina, it's funny cuz I was at the weigh-ins for the last EliteXC card that she fought in and she not only couldn't make weight, she looked like she was about to die trying. Kind of unprofessional on her part not knowing how to cut weight, but in her defense, her boobs are huge and it seems like a fundamental flaw to punish a hot chick for having a nice rack.

[Ser Barry]

I like how Brock chose Frank Mir as his first opponent. Mir's no can, though he's taken some ugly losses recently. Still, it should be a good test for him, and shows me that he's taking this seriously.

To add to this, even if the fighter is more than 1 lb over, they'll usually ask their opponent if he/she is okay with it, and if they are, then the fight will still go on.

As for Gina, it's funny cuz I was at the weigh-ins for the last EliteXC card that she fought in and she not only couldn't make weight, she looked like she was about to die trying. Kind of unprofessional on her part not knowing how to cut weight, but in her defense, her boobs are huge and it seems like a fundamental flaw to punish a hot chick for having a nice rack.

Re: Brock.

I think it makes sense. Mir is a big name so Brock gets immeadiate respect from Joe H Public. Mir is also a stinking stirker so Brock main weakness won't get tested. Brock is about 4x the size of Mir which makes a huge difference in the cage. I think it is the biggest name with the least threat Brock could have asked for. Of course he could have had a chump so he gets respect. If he gets past Mir, and he probably will given how long he has been training and the size difference, I would love to see him against Arlovski. Then we will see what he has right now.

Your rack argument is one step along the slippery slope to big cock/huge ballsack allowances in the name of gender equality. Be careful or we will have Steve Mazzagatti cupping fighter's balls behind a towel to allow for fair weigh-ins before too long.

[Horus Ex Machina]

Re: Brock.

I think it makes sense. Mir is a big name so Brock gets immeadiate respect from Joe H Public. Mir is also a stinking stirker so Brock main weakness won't get tested. Brock is about 4x the size of Mir which makes a huge difference in the cage. I think it is the biggest name with the least threat Brock could have asked for. Of course he could have had a chump so he gets respect. If he gets past Mir, and he probably will given how long he has been training and the size difference, I would love to see him against Arlovski. Then we will see what he has right now.

Your rack argument is one step along the slippery slope to big cock/huge ballsack allowances in the name of gender equality. Be careful or we will have Steve Mazzagatti cupping fighter's balls behind a towel to allow for fair weigh-ins before too long.

He definitely will show us how good Brock's submission defense is. While I don't see Brock actively trying for submissions himself, he will likely fight in close quarters on he ground ala Sherk, who he's training with. He probably knows that Mir is very comfortable fighting off of his back, will go for multiple submissions and is strong enough to hold onto them as he showed against Tim Sylvia.

As for the leeway in weighins, it only becomes a major issue in title fights, which may be relegated to a non-title fight if a guy can't make weight. For instance, the one time that Travis Lutter positively and absolutely had to make weight he couldn't. He ended up losing anyway, but had he won, he wouldn't have gotten the title.

BTW if Steve Mazzagatti even thinks about touch my cock (hypothetically) he's getting drop-kicked in the throat.

[zelticgar]

weigh allowances are common but i think the rules may differ from state to state. I think wieght cutting could become a potential issue for MMA if they continue to keep a limited number of weight classes.

Eventually someone is going to die in the ring or during training and weight cutting could be to blame. Back in the mid 90's college wrestling lost 3 or 4 gys in part to wieght cutting so it is only a matter of time before someone keels over due to cutting.

On the Lesnar - Mir fight, i like this fight, it will be interesting to see how Lesnar does. I think this could get Lesnar into a title fight quickly if he wins.

[EHK for Darwin]

Kimbo slice takes out random guy with 2 punches. He looks custom made for a movie villain...or a WWE villain. No idea if he's all hype or not as the fight only lasted 20 seconds.

Diaz vs. the other guy. Other guy could have finished it earlier if he wasn't scared shitless of getting near the ground. He just didn't appear to know how to go in for the kill or he was simply too nervous to risk it. Seemed like he spent all his excess training on take down defense and didn't have any leftover for actual ground combat. That said, ref made the right call on stopping it. That eye cut was in a HORRIBLE location and the fight had really just started.

[Horus Ex Machina]

Wow, what has happened to Nick Diaz? His last two fights have collectively been terrible for him, and I can only account it to the fact that he may have overestimated the effectiveness of his boxing. Yes he does train and have a few boxing matches under his belt, but so did Noons who, aside from now being the EliteXC LW champ is also a 7-1 boxer with 5 kos. And he showed it yesterday, bloodying first the right eye of Diaz, then the nose (which appeared to be fractured), and apparently later the other eye of Diaz. At the end of the first round Dias was spitting up large amounts of blood, likely ingested from the nose injury. The fight doctor took one look at Diaz' face and stopped the fight and though Diaz didn't agree with it, you couldn't fault him. Diaz was fighting with blood in his eyes, literally. Noons was only going to add more punishment.

So where does EliteXC go from here? Noons was obviously brought in as an easy means of crowning Nick Diaz thier first ever lightweight champ. The same way that Joey Villasenor was simply a guy to put in front of Murilo Rua in order to crown him the EliteXC middleweight champ. The same way that Phil Baroni was a pedigreed guy who was expected to lose to Frank Shamrock so he would be the Strikeforce MW posterboy. And the same way that Kenny Florian was supposed to lose to Sean Sherk.

KJ Noons, upon winning his EliteXC title immediately said that his next goal was a boxing title and advised Floyd Mayweather and Oscar De la Hoya to be on the lookout. A friend of mine who trained in boxing then remarked that Noons was unlikely to get a shot in boxing for the next two to three years. Because boxing, unlike MMA which is still in it's infancy, will rarely put a guy who is 4-1 in a title fight. I did mention for arguments sake that Fernando Vargas won his first title after around 10 fights. He reminded me that Vargas had pedigree, ie. he was an Olympic gold-medallist. Vargas' early start also may have served in stunting his career, he should have never fought a guy the caliber of Felix Trinidad as early in his career as he did and he's been shell-shocked ever since.

EliteXC's promoter is also a boxing promoter, so if he has any pull in boxing circles, he may want to exercise them now and get Noons a top contender spot in that sport, bc he now has to sell Noons, not Diaz, as a main event champion. This was probably a third-worst case scenario for the organization to come out of last night's card. The worst being Diaz and new aquisition Kimbo Slice losing and the second being Slice losing and Diaz winning.

Last night Kimbo Slice was powerful. And that's about all we learned from his true MMA debut. Because, ala Houston "we got a problem" Alexander, he stopped his opponent too soon to see what deficiencies, if any, he might have. If you want to know whether Kimbo Slice or Brock Lesnar are for real, have them fight each other, because each of their strengths test the others percieved shortcomings. Kimbo's striking vs Brock's grappling, and both having little practical experience in the other's discipline. But they're both recieving top-rate training from some of the best in MMA, so let's see.

[EHK for Darwin]

De LaHoya and Mayweather? Is he serious? He's gonna have to put on 10-15 more fights (boxing), some of them against serious competition to even sniff that sort of action. MMA name recognition could help him in booking fights against mediocre talent...and maybe getting the shit on ESPN 2. (look how many Contender season 1 contestants still draw in the crowds, get TV time, and decent fights if they want them) But for something serious against top boxing competition? The guy better have mainstream name recognition to even think about that shit. AKA, if his name isn't Chuck Liddel or something similar, its impossible to create the desired 'circus atmosphere' of a big MMA/Boxing showdown...at least not against top competition.

Floyd and Oscar aren't rolling out of bed unless there's 10+ million (each) involved and no MMA guy is gonna generate that sort of interest. They'll be permanently retired before an MMA guy has a big enough name and a credible enough boxing pedigree to make it possible.

Got to say, I do have a morbid interest in seeing Riddick Bowe...or really any other washed up boxer for that matter, in an MMA fight. Think it'll be fun to watch them get schooled.

[Horus Ex Machina]

I agree with this entire statement completely. For arguement's sake, I brought up Vargas, but he was an Olympian. Noons needs at least a 20-1 record just to sniff a fight with Cotto or Hattan let alone the two biggest names in the middle weight classes like DLH and Mosley. Shaw does promote in boxing, though so he can get a title fight someday, just not against the guys that he was calling out. He has no notable pedigree to speak of, so he'll have to fight his way up the ladder like anyone else and likely win a title before he has a shot at the big names. Just a kid talking, I presume.

[Horus Ex Machina]

BTW I checked and Vargas got his first title shot with a 14-0 record in his second year as a pro fighter. Not as early as I seem to remember but still absurdly early for a major boxing title. He was moved too fast.

[Analu]

Not the best card, from what I caught of it.

I was rooting for KJ since he's a local boy and am happy he won, but chee, does Nick Diaz have some shitty luck. It seems like every single one of his losses are controversial. He didn't handle it well by flipping off the crowd, but he never does. Nick has the heart and desire, but he's too prone to getting bad cuts. His face was messed up bad. That's always something I've thought was underrated in MMA. Guys who are bleeders and guys who aren't. It's not something that a fighter can control, but it can change the outcome of fights, either by doctor stoppage or by it interfering with the fighters vision and/or mental state. Ever see BJ Penn cut or bruised badly? Rarely if ever. Iceman and Fedor are the same way.

As for KJ's boxing claim, I wouldn't get too up in arms about it. The kid just won the biggest fight of his life and being both a boxer and a MMA fighter, he was just stating what his dreams are. Nothing wrong with aspiring to win titles in boxing and MMA. Better to aim high.

Kimbo's MMA debut was impressively.... short. It almost seemed like a work as Cantrell looked mentally out before the fight even began. Dude was tapping as he hit the ground. Kimbo has that "It" charisma and I think he has a real future in the sport. Too bad that fight didn't tell us anything that we didn't already know.

Didn't pay too much attention to the other fights since I was at work, but think that Shields is a real good fighter.

Also heard that Cuban's HDNet org has signed some pretty good talent for their next card: Trigg, Mayhem Miller, some others I forget. Mayhem can get me to watch his fights just for his entrances alone.

[EHK for Darwin]

It almost seemed like a work as Cantrell looked mentally out before the fight even began.

I didn't want to be the one to say it, but honestly...that was almost my first thought. The second that Cantrell seemed scared shitless the moment the bell rang and it was over before it even started. Seems like an errant sneeze would have sent Cantrell tapping.

Haven't caught the undercard either, but I'll probably give it a look. Long live Tivo.

[Analu]

I didn't want to be the one to say it, but honestly...that was almost my first thought. The second that Cantrell seemed scared shitless the moment the bell rang and it was over before it even started. Seems like an errant sneeze would have sent Cantrell tapping.

I've been rewatching it and I really do think that he threw the fight now. The uppercut and elbow didn't look like solid blows at all. It's hard to tell with elbows, but I've rewound and played it in slow-mo at least 5 times, and... I dunno. I don't think it was a work or that Kimbo knew about it, but I think Cantrell cashed in on an easy pay day and took a dive. He should never be allowed to fight again.

Anyone who hasn't seen it can check it out over here

Also, I didn't get a chance to really listen to the commentating live, but holy shit is Goldberg terrible. Those post-fight interviews were painfully awkward. I love where he's trying to get Kimbo to say more, and Kimbo's just looking at him. They should just leave it to Quadros and Ranallo or at least get a real fighter or someone who's a little funny. He makes Rogan look like the Jaws of MMA.

[Oorag]

Anyone who hasn't seen it can check it out over here

Yeah, if Cantrell didn't take a dive, he surely has no heart at all. The speed at which he was protecting the back of his head once he hit the ground showed that he had the wits and physical capacity to continue fighting if he wanted to. He was just in a bad position and unwilling to fight through the inevitable ground and pounding.

[Analu]

I was tooling around sherdog and came across this thread linking this Bas interview where he talks about the "fix" in the Kimbo fight: interview

Interesting take and gotta love Bas.

Predictions for UFC 78 this weekend:

Evans over Bisping by decision

Parisyan over Chonan by decision

Alexander over Thiago by KO in 2.3 seconds

Fisher over Edgar by TKO

Herman over Doerksen by submission

Watched TUF 6 earlier today. Hughes is such a prick it makes me laugh. That "talk" that Hightower had with Hughes and his coaches was high comedy. Hughes looked like he could give a flying fuck. I can understand why Hughes was so annoyed, but wow, what a dick.