Gwywen Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 New thread, new detail. (May have been mentioned before, though) Did anyone notice Maggy the Frog is Jeyne Westerling's grandmother? It's in ASoS. Tywin tells Tyrion the news why Robb Stark not marry a Frey, and then explains him a brief history of the Westerling family. "Gawen (...) should never have married Sybel Spicer. Her grandfather (...) was almost as lowborn as Stannis' smuggler. And her grandmother was a woman he brought from the east. (...) Maegi, they called her. No man could pronounce her real name. Half of Lannisport came to her for drugs and love potions." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IthilanorStPete Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 Yep, it's been noticed. It's one of the pieces of evidence for the theory that Jeyne used a "love potion" to get Robb into bed. Personally, I believe that theory is bogus-GRRM is too realistic for that kind of fantasy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Other-in-law Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 It's one of the pieces of evidence for the theory that Jeyne used a "love potion" to get Robb into bed. Personally, I believe that theory is bogus-GRRM is too realistic for that kind of fantasy. ???? How is drugging someone for one's own purposes 'unrealistic'? At any rate, Jeyne's conduct in aFfC does seem to prove that she was not a willing party in the plot to bring Robb down, as some of us suspected beforehand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoë Sumra Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 At any rate, Jeyne's conduct in aFfC does seem to prove that she was not a willing party in the plot to bring Robb down, as some of us suspected beforehand. Jeyne might not have administered the love potion, or known about it. Heck, both of them could have been slipped a dose. The only thing we know about is the moon tea or equivalent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwywen Posted October 15, 2007 Author Share Posted October 15, 2007 If so, why on earth would she do that? The Westerlings were bannermen to the Lannisters. I guess the last thing they want is Lord Tywin to become their enemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anya, Vengeance Demon Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 So... there are people who think that two good-looking teenagers having sex is so unlikely that only the presence of a love potion would explain it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFDanny Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 So... there are people who think that two good-looking teenagers having sex is so unlikely that only the presence of a love potion would explain it? Yup, that was my experience. Ohhh ... you said "good-looking" ... sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Other-in-law Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 So... there are people who think that two good-looking teenagers having sex is so unlikely that only the presence of a love potion would explain it? Where do you get that from? I don't think that anyone has claimed that it's the only explanation, merely an explanation. I don't particularly advocate it, but given that there were some deceptive pharmaceuticals being administered, and that both parties should have been aware of the mutual danger of their liason, it hardly seems to be something to be dismissed out of hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All-for-Joffrey Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 I've never heard the love potion theory before but I doubt GRRM would resort to something like that. For one thing it's rather cliced but more importantly those type of plot devices are what marks the divide between actual literature and typical fantasy. If there were a love potion involved, the whole affair/red wedding would be the result of an artificial, typical fantasy trope instead of Robb's mistake/foolishness, so he wouldn't really be a tragic figure anymore, instead he would just be the king who won every battle in the field without the flaw. Being the noble king who won every battle but lost the war in the bedroom is much more literary and much more in tune with the rest of the series. The use of plot devices like this is what makes fantasy largely marginalized and not taken seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IthilanorStPete Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 The "unrealistic" part is referring to the fact that any "love potion" would have to use magic, which is not the kind of thing GRRM does. (Unless they had Viagra or something back in the Middle Ages) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intercept Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 If so, why on earth would she do that? The Westerlings were bannermen to the Lannisters. I guess the last thing they want is Lord Tywin to become their enemy. Maybe they honestly thought the North could win, and afterall, a small house marrying into the King's is certainly not an offer to balk at. I didn't catch that find. Very nice. Could explain many things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odie Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 You all forget that a "love potion" could be the Westerosi equivilant of Spanish Fly... the Spicers give Jeyne some kind of drought that increases her sex drive, and point her in the direction of Robb... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WightMeWorry Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 This has probably been mentioned before (in I..IV )... but the Quiet Isle may be where they brew that fearsomely strong cider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya Lannister Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 Not sure if anyone has ever noticed this, but it reminds me of Sansa's cedar chest. Blue roses are supposed to mean "impossible" or "unattainable". Brings a new level of depressing to L+R. \= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Other-in-law Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 The "unrealistic" part is referring to the fact that any "love potion" would have to use magic, which is not the kind of thing GRRM does. (Unless they had Viagra or something back in the Middle Ages) GRRM doesn't have characters use magic? What series have you been reading? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenna Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 Remember the mean tomcat that Arya had to catch in GoT? The one that was called "the real king of the castle." I wonder if that is the same black cat that belonged to Rhegar's daughter, the one she called Balerion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwywen Posted October 16, 2007 Author Share Posted October 16, 2007 Yes, it's Rhaenys' black cat, I had it confirmed. In aSoS that cat almost attacks Sansa too, I wonder if that means something. (Cats not liking dogs, (or people that smell like dogs?) something like that). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IthilanorStPete Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 GRRM doesn't have characters use magic? What series have you been reading? Clarification: A "love potion" seems too...Harry Potter-ish for this series-and last I checked, the magic of this series didn't involve wavign wands around or making magic potions in a cauldron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Stark Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 I just re read the Jaime chapter towards the end of AFFC where he is visiting his aunt Genna. I found the last paragraph particularly interesting where she says something to the effect "You are not Tywin's son, Tyrion is". What is everyone's take on this? I am sure there are threads but couldn't really find anything. My thought is that Jaime, although a great knight and a warrior, is not a capable of governing the realm. Tyrion is however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Greguh Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 I just re read the Jaime chapter towards the end of AFFC where he is visiting his aunt Genna. I found the last paragraph particularly interesting where she says something to the effect "You are not Tywin's son, Tyrion is". What is everyone's take on this? I am sure there are threads but couldn't really find anything. My thought is that Jaime, although a great knight and a warrior, is not a capable of governing the realm. Tyrion is however. Tywin's defining characteristics as seen by the realm are his ruthlessness and cold-bloodedness, where every move is calculated out in advance and has a purpose. Jaime is quite the opposite: a hothead known for his lack of patience (consider the Whispering Wood) and quick, anger-driven statements and actions. I believe that Genna also believes that Tywin was, deep down, a romantic, considering his relationship with Joanna, whose reputation for ruthlessness and brutality was a constrcut built out of necessity. Tyrion has more than a hint of those same complexities. Jaime's complexities are of a very different sort (dealing more with his conflicting loyalties). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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