IthilanorStPete Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 Yeah, probably. Sorry if I seem to be picking on you or anything, btw. No problem, it's generally my fault for not making myself clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoë Sumra Posted October 21, 2007 Share Posted October 21, 2007 The only time GRRM ever slips and forgets that Jaime has only one hand is during the sept!sex scene. One hand slid up her thigh and underneath her smallclothes. Clearly implies he has a second... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackstormdragon Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 No, it implies that one hand slid up her thigh, which is underneath her smallclothes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anya, Vengeance Demon Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 I'm going to be somewhat contrary and say that I bet the Celtigar's horn probably _does_ do something. Euron has a big, impressive horn of unknown powers that appears to be of Valyrian make. Mance has a horn that's described almost exactly the same way (except that Mance's is bound with yellow gold and Euron's with red gold). My guess is that Valyria probably made a number of magical horns to help the dragonlords maintain control; and the Targaryens probably had a number of Valyrian goodies that, with the Doom, no longer worked particularly well or were just forgotten as the Targaryens became more Westerosi and less Valyrian. Then one day, a Celtigar does something impressive for his liege, and gets this giant, unwieldy, and expensive-looking Valyrian horn as a reward, with the proviso that he probably shouldn't try to use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoë Sumra Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 No, it implies that one hand slid up her thigh, which is underneath her smallclothes. The particular usage - "One hand..." - customarily refers to one from two. But we could pick hairs all day over that one. Another: in ASoS, Jaime dislikes Brienne's total silence after she hears about the Red Wedding, going to the extent of teasing her to try to make her respond. In AFfC, he happily rides beside the mute Ilyn Payne, and appreciates the quiet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anya, Vengeance Demon Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 Another: in ASoS, Jaime dislikes Brienne's total silence after she hears about the Red Wedding, going to the extent of teasing her to try to make her respond. In AFfC, he happily rides beside the mute Ilyn Payne, and appreciates the quiet. Brienne is silent because she's upset, which is bothering Jaime because he feels obligated to do something about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IthilanorStPete Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 There's another flub regarding Jaime and his hand(s): at some point (I think when he arrives at Harrenhal in AFfC), he cups his hands to shout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white cloak Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Mance Rayder uses the phrase "All men must die" twice in conversation with Jon (the first time they meet beyond the wall). I still have no idea what (if anything) that means. that just made me think that maybe Mance has been to the free cities. free dity favored phrase "valor morghulis" which means "all men must die" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwywen Posted October 23, 2007 Author Share Posted October 23, 2007 Regarding Celtigar's horn, I was thinking about Nagga and perhaps some other (remaining)seadragons. Or krakens. Remember some ships attacked bij a kraken somewhere east of Storm's End (?). Perhaps someone did take and use the horn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Other-in-law Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 Euron has a big, impressive horn of unknown powers that appears to be of Valyrian make. Mance has a horn that's described almost exactly the same way (except that Mance's is bound with yellow gold and Euron's with red gold). That's a huge stretch for 'almost exactly'. Euron's horn was black, twisted, bound in red gold and steel, incised with Valyrian glyphs. Mance's horn is curved, bound with browned gold, graven with runes...Jon thinks it came from the largest Aurochs that ever lived. So different shape, probably different animal in origin, different metals, different writing system. Mance's horn is almost certainly a First Man artifact, rather than a Valyrian one....we get the rune-First Man connection via Sam in aFfC. But they do both have writing on them, presumably spells. I'd describe them as 'vaguely similar'. As for Lord Celtigar's purported horn, the kraken connection is very strange. If the Valyrians made it, why would they (a people famed for their fire magic) have any power over or connection with krakens (one of the coldest and wettest creatures imaginable)? That just really doesn't fit. If anyone would, you'd expect it to be the Ironborn, but the closest we come to hearing of them using that sort of animal-control magic is the Farwynd who is purported to be a seal-warg. I suspect the mention of Celtigar's horn was merely setting up the idea of an animal summoning horn in advance of Euron's horn. However if we do, in fact end up seeing some real Kraken-summoning, Varys tidbit about the hapless Ibbenese whaler will have set that up. Euron being devoured by a kraken would certainly be an ironic fate for him. Maybe too cheesy, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTGAP Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 I've never heard the love potion theory before but I doubt GRRM would resort to something like that. For one thing it's rather cliced but more importantly those type of plot devices are what marks the divide between actual literature and typical fantasy. If there were a love potion involved, the whole affair/red wedding would be the result of an artificial, typical fantasy trope instead of Robb's mistake/foolishness, so he wouldn't really be a tragic figure anymore, instead he would just be the king who won every battle in the field without the flaw. Being the noble king who won every battle but lost the war in the bedroom is much more literary and much more in tune with the rest of the series. The use of plot devices like this is what makes fantasy largely marginalized and not taken seriously. I don't think of the love potion as Robb winning every battle without flaw. Throughout ACOK, I kept thinking, "Robb won a bunch of battles. But just wait until he battles Tywin, that'll show him." Then, when he died, I was kinda sad that he had never battled Tywin and gotten creamed. But I was wrong: he DID battle Tywin and get creamed, and didn't even know it. TYWIN set up the love potion (which there might not have been, but whatever), TYWIN set up the moon tea, TYWIN set up the Red Wedding. They might have had sex out of their own accord, but Tywin doesn't seem like the type of man to risk so much on that small factor. He most likely gave them a love potion. (Well HE didn't give it to them, but you know what I mean.) He might not have, but I think he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Stark Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 We all know that Littlefinger is plotting the death of SweetRobin (hate that name by the way, gives me the shaking fits!!!). Do we know if it is due to the unusually high amount of sweetmilk that he is administering him? There is a passage in the last Sansa chapter where Maester Colemon asks Sansa if "his nose is bleeding". This sounds like an unhealthy dose of sweetmilk, and is this the way LF plans on offing him??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrigan Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 Another: in ASoS, Jaime dislikes Brienne's total silence after she hears about the Red Wedding, going to the extent of teasing her to try to make her respond. In AFfC, he happily rides beside the mute Ilyn Payne, and appreciates the quiet. Perhaps because he is a reasonable fellow, and thus doesn't expect Payne to talk... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rydis Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 When Danny is in Quarth and saved by Barristan from the manticore, the person who had the manticore said, "im sorry" before she opened it. ADWD spoilers in ADWD chapter for danny, the explain a group of assasins that always apologize before they kill someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrigan Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 Huh? The Sorrowful Men are referenced long before that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rydis Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 Huh? The Sorrowful Men are referenced long before that. maybe, still first time I remeber hearing of them. But to me it makes me think someone else wanted her dead besides those in westeros Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the silent speaker Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 I don't think Littlefinger much cares if he dies tat way, but Lordlet Arryn is so weak and sick that I doubt he feels the need to have any assassination plans in place. Why dirty his hands when he can get the same benefits while keeping them clean? And if the boy turns out to be more robust than he seems, plenty of time to arrange an accident then. Besides, Robin really is severely ill, what with the epileptic-looking fits. He's in real need of treatment, and a lot of it -- perhaps not what the maesters are giving him, but I see no reason to doubt their good faith in believing that this is what cures epilepsy, whether their belief is what we would call medically sound or no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Other-in-law Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 maybe, still first time I remeber hearing of them. But to me it makes me think someone else wanted her dead besides those in westeros well, yeah. The Manticore was almost certainly a Qartheen attempt, I'd say. Maybe the Warlocks hired the Sorrowful Man, maybe it was someone else; Dany became quite unpopular quickly after burning the House of the Undying. But I don't think it was Westerosi in origin, Varys had long since sent out Robert's deathbed orders retracting the previous offer of a lordship for her death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenna Posted October 27, 2007 Share Posted October 27, 2007 Just something that I noticed. Most of the married ladies go by their married names. Such as Catelyn Stark, Lysa Tully, etc. You never hear of Cersei being referred to as Cersei Baratheon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daena the Defiant Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 Just something that I noticed. Most of the married ladies go by their married names. Such as Catelyn Stark, Lysa Tully, etc. You never hear of Cersei being referred to as Cersei Baratheon! Lysa Tully is her maiden name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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