Arya Corpse-kicker

[L'Sana]

To give her an added impetus into insanity and her rapid decline, since he couldn't spread it out over the 5-year gap. I agree with you, Jenna, and Stratonice-Cersei's characterization in AFfC was...disappointing.

I want to put my vote here as well. To be fair to Cersei, I think Joff's death probably unhinged her to a certain extent; after all, we saw what Robb's death did to Catelyn, and Cersei had to witness a far worse death for her beloved first-born. It would be somewhat surprising if Joff's murder hadn't driven her a bit over the edge. I think we would have gotten a much different Cersei if we could have seen her PoV in Clash of Kings or Storm of Swords.

With that being said, yes, I too was very disappointed by Cersei in AFFC. I was expecting Lady Macbeth and instead got a twisted Ophelia.

[Dacey]

I agree with this too.

I hope Martin doesn't have a "thing" against women in positions of power. Signs aren't good so far, witness Lysa and Cersei. Hopefully Dany will turn out better and not fall into the same stereotypical over emotional craziness...

And no, Margaery, Catelyn, and QOT don't count here, as they exercise their power from behind the throne rather than sitting on it.

Very mild spoilers for ADwD (not from one of the preview chapters, just Martin's comments):

SPOILER: ADwD

Martin's said that the thing he regrets most about splitting AFfC and ADwD into two books is losing Cersei as a foil for Dany. Originally, the intent was that you'd see Cersei's failure contrasted against Dany successfully overcoming obstacles and learning to rule.

I do agree that I wish Cersei's crazy had been toned down some, as AFfC did rob her of a lot of her power as a great villain. (And what I think is even worse is the glimpses we get of Cersei as a child, where she's still just as crazy and amoral as she is now. It'd be a lot more interesting to think of her messed-up psyche as something that developed over time.) But on the whole, I think Martin is really good about his portrayal of powerful women. Because Westeros is a patriarchal society, we don't get to see a lot of women ruling in their own right, so it's hard to judge from so few samples. But I think Dany's shaping up as a far better ruler than any of the male kings and lords we've seen.

On the actual subject of the thread, I'm gonna say Tyrion hitting Shae as number one. It's kind of understandable, given his particular issues and how she was pushing them, but that's not an excuse. And if you're gonna angst about how much you want a real, honest relationship and then hit your girlfriend in the face when she says something you don't like, you've got nobody to blame but yourself when she decides it was just a buisness arrangement after all and sells you out.

Oddly, the murder of Shae is somewhat less of a problem for me, because he was under a truly extraordinary degree of emotional stress at that point - after being falsely accused of a capital crime, put through a totally humiliating sham trial, almost saved by Oberyn only to have his hopes dashed at the very last moment, finding out Tysha wasn't a whore and the only family member he thought loved him was in on it, and then finding Shae in bed with the father who engineered his big childhood trauma to punish him for consorting with "whores"...that'd be pretty much the breaking point for anybody, I think. I don't think it was an okay thing to do, but I can excuse it as Tyrion basically not being in his right mind. He had no such excuse when he hit her, though.

[Lady Blackfish]

I'm not quite sure how that is off topic in a thread discussing disappointing actions taken by the characters.

Technically it is since the thread is about disappointing things done by characters the given poster likes.

[Analu]

I'd also have to go with the stupidity of Cersei shown in AFFC as being a big disappointment.

I disliked the showdown between the Blackfish and Jaime. Just a bunch of sneering and posturing by the former. I expected better from Brynden.

This is more getting into GRRM's choice of storyline, but I was mildly disappointed that Tywin was killed off. I thought he was a formidable villain and his scenes with Tyrion and Jaime were always great fun to read. Now with him dead, Gregor not really himself, Tickler/Rorge/Biter/etc gone, and Cersei locked up and in a fight for her life, I really don't know who to root against anymore. The Others? They're really too emotionless (or have been portrayed as so) to really hate.

And I was pissed that Catelyn didn't stay dead and that Beric is dead. Should've been the other way around, damnit. Beric was one of the few characters that I could root for without guilt because he didn't have a lot of baggage (see Jaime).

[Anthem]

Biggest disappointments:

Catelyn becoming unCat. I thought you retained most of your personality even after you were 'kissed by fire' (like Beric) and unCat is even more of a demented psycho than Cersei.

Add me to the list of those disappointed in Cersei. The 'valonqar' prophecy is stupid, because I always got the impression from the first 3 books Cersei hated Tyrion because he was ugly and killed their mother, rather than a prophecy. In ACoK, Cersei even hugged Tyrion and spun him around for joy when she heard Stannis and Renly were fighting each other. This isn't the behaviour of a woman thinking her brother was going to strangle her.

Tyrion slapping Shae was horrible. I'm projecting 21st century ideals here, which I'm well aware is unfair, but I am strongly opposed to violence against your partner (Shae was, in a sense, Tyrion's partner). I love Tyrion, but the slap was so unlike him.

Shae did not deserve to die. Being betrayed in turn by Cersei was sufficient punishment, methinks.

[Mad Monkey]

Renly should have lived and Stannis should have died. Then he could have swept the Starks and the Lannisters into the sea and rebuilt King's Landing so that Dany can take it away later on. Although I think I prefer the outcome that was actually played out in the book...

[Lord Stormbringer]

Anyone experience a similar moment of disappointment with one of their favorites?

Robert ordering Lady's death. I have a fair amount of sympathy for Robert and think a lot of the mess he became wasn't entirely his fault. But this one instance was him at his spineless, self centered, and pathetic worst. He did a tremendous cruelty to his best and oldest friend, hurt an innocent child, and did it solely because he wouldn't put up a fight. It's a horrible low point.

Eddard refusing Renly's offer of help. Eddard is willing to turn to a sociopathic snake like Littlefinger but he was unwilling to trust in and aid Robert's own brother. He doesn't even really try to work out something with Renly that would be good for the realm and everyone in it. It's one time when I think Eddard really blew it.

Robb marrying Jeyne. Bone headed in the extreme and like Eddard putting personal honor before any concerns a man in his position should have heeded. It's a real let down because he should have known and thought more.

Oberyn getting into the Inigo Montoya act a little too much. He was winning the fight and killing Gregor but he had to blow it. Foolish, foolish, foolish.

Jaime riding against Riverrun. He complains about how everyone thinks he has shit for honor. Well, this proves that even the "new Jaime" has shit for honor. I don't blame Brynden for the scorn he shown as when the crunch came Jaime was still the same old oath breaker.

Now the last two aren't favorites so much as they are moments where I just want to scream at hte protanganists.

Catelyn freeing Jaime. It's selfish, suicidally dumb, and she knows it's a bad risk when she makes it!

Sansa going crying to Cersei. Have you forgot who killed Lady you stupid little bint? Apparently.

[nihil]

Eddard Killing Lady was a good thing he made it quick and clean and made sure that the Direwolves Body couldn't be mistreated

So you think he should have let Joffrey Kill LADY (Based on his performance with the valriyan steel sword and the Book Lady would have been killed horribly even if Joffrey meant to give it a quick death ) and cersei Too turn her into a cloak she would have flaunted in front of Sansa

I thought he should have fought it more. Maybe even arranged to have her shipped back North or something (I'm not sure why they thought direwolves in the big city was a good idea in the first place). You stand up for your pack. I realize that there's the whole not defying your king, and that in that society they didn't place the kind of importance on pets' lives as we do now, but it still disappointed me. And anyway, if he'd let Cersei turn Lady into a cloak and wear her, maybe Sansa wouldn't have been so quick to go blab his plans to her later on.

[vhailorx]

I don't know if I would use the term 'disappointing' to describe cersei in AFFC, but it certainly was odd. She becomes SO foolish and easy to manipulate that in retrospect her appearance as a dangerously ruthless opponent with 'a certain low cunning' becomes hard to believe.

I guess i would have been happier with that characterization if GRRM been more explicit about showing cersei's descent into madness, rather than basically showing her to be crazy from the very first POV chapter. I think that the loss of her father and the rift with Jaime are supposed to remove the restraining influences on her, allowing her inner craziness to run free. But that doesn't really work if you think about it because Tywin was in Casterly Rock for most of AGOT and Jaime was supposed to be brash and hotheaded before losing his hand, so he wasn't much of a restraint on the queen. All in all she was just a bit over the top in AFFC, which was amusing in itself, but not really consistent with our earlier perception of her.

But you know what, as I reread the books, I'm not convinced that there aren't hints of cersei's insanity earlier in the series. Certainly, she drinks like a fish and acts irrationally during the battle of the blackwater. and he seemingly obsession with killing lady out of malice in AGOT does sort of fit with her ultimate insanity. the only problem with this reinterpretation is that I have a hard time believing that no one bothered to notice in the 15 years of Robert's rule that the queen was totally psychotic and quietly remove her from the circles of power. I mean, even that lannisters should have realized that a sadistic crazy lannister bitch ruling the kingdom would be bad for business.

As for Tyrion and Shae, don't forget that shae really didn't have much choice but to testify. As a high lady Taena could chose to volunteer her 'testiomy' or not, but shae really had no choice. It was say what cersei/tywin told her to say or be whipped/raped/killed. That's the real tragedy in Tyrion's killing her. she really never had any choice or power. She oculd have left tyrion, but that would have meant returning to life as a poor whore.

[Kouran]

One thing I think people miss out on in regards to Cersei is that she has always been foolish. Even in AGoT she came across to me as a woman who played fast and loose and took rediculous risks. Cersei has always thought she was smarter or braver than anyone around her. Unfortunaly for Cersei she doesnt see the hubris that is around her.

As to the volanquor(sp) Jaime is going to be the one to kill her. If you cant see that coming from all the 'we came into the world together' stuff then you might wanna take a step back.

As to characters who make disapointing actions lets see:

Eddard when he puts his personal honor ahead of the realm when he refuses Renley

Jaime when he takes the expeident way out in regards to Riverrun

Danny in thinking that anything she does will have a lasting impact in Slaver Bay

Arya in not going back to westeros

Jon in sending Gilly away with another womans baby

Sandor in not letting go of his hate and fear and making a clean break after the twins

[The Ruby Ford]

One of my biggest disappointments was either at the beginning of SoS or towards the end of CoK (I can't recall which). It was the opening paragraph to one of Sansa's chapters and she was describing a poorer knight and the dull slightly rusted armor he had on. What truly bugged me was when she said something to the point of "no true knight would ever wear such (crappy) armor."

The reason this disappointed me was because this is after all of her beatings at the hands of the Kg, everyone she trusted and loved betraying her, and her view of the world as a perfect song being shatters. Yet she still things that knighthood and worth is defined by how shiny your armor is and you can't be considered a Ser if you don't have the coin to dress in rubies, silks, and high-end steel.

[Trackrunner]

One of my biggest disappointments was either at the beginning of SoS or towards the end of CoK (I can't recall which). It was the opening paragraph to one of Sansa's chapters and she was describing a poorer knight and the dull slightly rusted armor he had on. What truly bugged me was when she said something to the point of "no true knight would ever wear such (crappy) armor."

I don't remember this. Do you happen to have the exact quote or page number?

[Eponine]

I think that what makes people like Jaime and Sandor and dislike Catelyn is less about their actual actions and more about their attitudes about themselves.

Jaime finally is able to see himself for what he truly is and he seems to want to become a good commander of the Kingsguard. Maybe he can never redeem himself completely, but I think that psychologically, we attribute a lot to him saying things like that he wanted to be a hero, but he had become the Smiling Knight instead. It's a modern mindset to believe that a person needs to be self aware and make a definite decision to change before he can genuinely make amends. Sandor never pretends he's anything but bad, and we have reason to believe that he's changed as well.

Problem with Catelyn is that even though the things she did weren't nearly as bad, she goes to her death believing that her shit smells like roses. She never shows any regret for the things she's done and believes that she was justified in doing so. It's especially grating in how she freed Jaime and then used the "oh but no one else in the world knows what it's like to be a mother" excuse.

[The Ruby Ford]

I FOUND IT! Its page 926 in my SoS American paperback (so ya i was way off.)

"the man had been knighted for his valor in the Battle of the Blackwater. Though no proper knight would wear those patched brown breeches and scuffed boots, nor that cracked and waterstained leather jerkin."

So it wasn't in the scenario i thought it was but i stand by my statement. However now I'm expecting people to disagree saying that its just a highborn sheltered girl being put off by worn-out and cheap clothing but I still expected a better perception of the world from Sansa at this point.

[Mutethunder]

Robb marrying Jeyne and beheading Karstark, just for honour. Even his father slept with a woman without marrying her, as far as everyone know

[gaylord]

Ned Stark getting his head cut off and totally screwing up his entire family

[fgalkin]

I FOUND IT! Its page 926 in my SoS American paperback (so ya i was way off.)

"the man had been knighted for his valor in the Battle of the Blackwater. Though no proper knight would wear those patched brown breeches and scuffed boots, nor that cracked and waterstained leather jerkin."

So it wasn't in the scenario i thought it was but i stand by my statement. However now I'm expecting people to disagree saying that its just a highborn sheltered girl being put off by worn-out and cheap clothing but I still expected a better perception of the world from Sansa at this point.

Why? Every knight she has met so far has worn better clothing (and she didn't have much experience with hedge knights). How is it wrong to point out that knights tend to wear better clothing? Because, you know, they DO, if they can help it.

Have a very nice day.

-fgalkin

[Garlan_the_gallant]

Why? Every knight she has met so far has worn better clothing (and she didn't have much experience with hedge knights). How is it wrong to point out that knights tend to wear better clothing? Because, you know, they DO, if they can help it.

Have a very nice day.

-fgalkin

I think the point here is that Knighthood is supposed to be about honor, not clothes and it's disappointing that Sansa doesn't realize that after all the shit she has been through with "true" knights.

[fgalkin]

"No proper knight" != "No true knight."

A "proper" knight is a landed and prosperous knight, a "true" knight is a chivalrous one.

Have a very nice day.

-fgalkin

[Gold Storm]

I did not like Sansa when she totally forgot about her family after the fighting in the Red Keep.