DJDonegal Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 Now being from Nigeria, I admit a personal bias, but I think that there are African teams with the talent to even win a Cup. And being "at home" in Africa may be our best shot. Yes, it may. But history is against you. No African team has ever made it to the semi finals of a World Cup - let alone won it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horus Ex Machina Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 Ugh. No. It's a bad point. Finally see Uruguay in the cup? They've won it. Twice. 1930 and 1950. I'm not that old. Plus it's been pretty sporadic since then, 1954, 1962, 1966, 1970, 1974, 1986, 1990, 2002. They just may have enough talent to make it every year if they were trying to qualify in Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horus Ex Machina Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 Yes, it may. But history is against you. No African team has ever made it to the semi finals of a World Cup - let alone won it. Nigeria is arguably Africa's best chance. But 1994 was the first time they fielded a WC qualifier. They managed to qualify for three of four WC's since then, making it to the knockout round twice. They've proven that they can compete at this level, yet they were knocked out in the African quals for 2006. In fact all of the countries that have seemed on the verge of being preeminent African contenders (Cameroon, Nigeria, Senegal) didn't qual. This says something for the depth of African soccer. Ghana, which has always been a top African team only just qualified. There are a few teams who can play here. Political considerations kept a majority of them from fielding teams prior to the 1980's. Not alot of history to draw from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cteresa Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 But history is against you. No African team has ever made it to the semi finals of a World Cup - let alone won it. They were close in 1990, they came close.... I am far more comfortable with the idea of Africa having 6 spots than North America 3.5 ( much less south american 7!). 14 for europe, 6 for africa, 4 for south america, 2.5 for north america, .5 for oceania, 4 for asia and one for host nation... would seem fair to me. And europe would still get less than 50% the places - and go on, look at finalist and semifinalist lists for the numbers of different countries, check the percentage of how many of those were european. It will be higher than europe´s initial representation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horus Ex Machina Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 They were close in 1990, they came close.... Memory of the Cameroonian run to the quarterfinals brings a smile to my face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJDonegal Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 Firstly, the term "sporadic" cannot apply when a country qualifies for the World Cup 5 times in a row. And only failed twice in 40 years. You think Uruguay could qualify out of a group with France and England? Or any of Italy, Spain, Germany, Czech Rep, Italy, Portugal and Holland with England? Not only that, they'd have to top the group to be certain of qualifying. Second would send them into a play off - unless they were the worst second placed team. Then they're out. I don't think it's anything like as easy as you imply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horus Ex Machina Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 Firstly, the term "sporadic" cannot apply when a country qualifies for the World Cup 5 times in a row. And only failed twice in 40 years. Okay, maybe not sporadic all-time, just in the years when I've been an adult and watching. Apparently they chose to go into a funk just when I began watching sports regularly. What a bonehead move, I posted the years and didn't even bother to add them up before 1990. My mistake. But they have failed 3 times in 40 years. '94, '98, and '06. You think Uruguay could qualify out of a group with France and England? Or any of Italy, Spain, Germany, Czech Rep, Italy, Portugal and Holland with England?Italy, Spain and Germany, no. Portugal, Holland, Czech Rep. and England(right now), I'd take my chances. Besides those six, there are many other spots. It doesn't just come down to those teams. Can they beat out Ukraine, Poland, Serbia and Montenegro, probably. You do have to admit that even Europe has its share of teams that take up space Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJDonegal Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 1990 minus 1950 = 40 They missed 78 and 82. But yah, since then they have been rather lacklustre to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cteresa Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 Cameroon in 1990 Africa has given many great footballers to the world And because I am a geek and love numbers ( not that they are that important in football anyway) and because it is too cold to get out of this warm office and I am bored, I really did check the numbers. from the wikipedia, and remember Turkey is a UEFA member, the percentage of finalists and semfinalists which were european ever EUfinalists EUsemifinalists 1930 0 1 1934 2 4 1938 2 3 1950 0 2 1954 2 3 1958 1 3 1962 1 2 1966 2 4 1970 1 2 1974 2 3 1978 1 2 1982 2 4 1986 1 3 1990 1 3 1994 1 3 1998 1 3 2002 1 2 2006 2 4 That means on average 1,28 european finalists ( out of 2) and 2,83 ( out of 4) european finalists. European representation for contenders has never been above 50%. Also 8 european nations have been finalists (ItalyCzechoslovakiaHungaryWest Germany/GermanySwedenEnglandNetherlandsFrance) and only 3 non european, all south american teams ( Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay) Of the semifinalist nations, we got 4 south american ones ( those 3 plus chile), 1 north american ( the usa, all the way back in 1930. Where very few european teams participated btw), 1 asian ( South Korea. and everybody knows how they got there) and nothing less than 18 different european nations (ItalyCzechoslovakiaHungarySwedenEnglandWest Germany/GermanyNetherlandsFranceYugoslaviaAustriaSpainPortugalUSSRPolandBelgiumBulgariaCroatiaTurkeyand technically speaking Croatia is not the heir of Yugoslavia, Serbia and Montenegero and then Serbia is the legal heir). Come on. Europe has earned its allocations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJDonegal Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 South Korea. and everybody knows how they got there No. I still really struggle to understand how it happened. I'm so glad I'm not Italian. I bet none of them slept properly from 2002 to 2006. And I'm off to watch the 2010 draw. Ciao. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cteresa Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 No. I still really struggle to understand how it happened. Well, I said "know", not understand. Nobody understands really. Spain was also robbed BTW. I'm so glad I'm not Italian. I bet none of them slept properly from 2002 to 2006. 2006 was just like getting even for 2002 for a whole lot of countries. And I'm off to watch the 2010 draw. Ciao. post on any juicy tidibtd. european draw is last right? I might be away by then finally- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horus Ex Machina Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 Come on. Europe has earned its allocations. You make a convincing argument. Looking at some of the data, outside of Uruguay(lately), and Columbia I can't think of any other S. American team being stiffed. They have some of the best teams in the world, but they also have some of the worst. As for Africa, they've got to have the least (or close to it) number of years competing on the WC stage. 2006 was probably an aberration and we'll probably see Nigeria (w/ Berti Vogts coaching) and Cameroon back as well as S. Africa as host. They have a good side. I'd be happy if Africa had another spot, because with the ridiculous amount of countries there (over 50) it makes for the posibilities of years like 2006 when only 1 of thier historical powers (based on African Cup wins, Ghana, Nigeria, Cameroon, Egypt) qualified for the Cup. BTW for anyone who follows Egyptian soccer, how do they always do so well in that cup but haven't even sniffed the success of Nigeria and Cameroon in the WC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Iceman of the North Posted November 25, 2007 Author Share Posted November 25, 2007 post on any juicy tidibtd. european draw is last right? I might be away by then finally- The European draw for South Africa is in a few minutes. I think the draw for Euro 2008 is 2 December. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Iceman of the North Posted November 25, 2007 Author Share Posted November 25, 2007 AFC Group 1 Australia China Iraq Qatar Group 2 Japan Bahrain Oman Thailand Group 3 South Korea North Korea Jordan Turkmenistan Group 4 Saudi Arabia Uzbekistan Lebanon Singapore Group 5 Iran Kuwait United Arab Emirates Syria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cteresa Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 You make a convincing argument. Looking at some of the data, outside of Uruguay(lately), and Columbia I can't think of any other S. American team being stiffed. They have some of the best teams in the world, but they also have some of the worst. 4 places is probably enough for them. Only 10 countries and all that. Europe has 53 As for Africa, they've got to have the least (or close to it) number of years competing on the WC stage. 2006 was probably an aberration and we'll probably see Nigeria (w/ Berti Vogts coaching) and Cameroon back as well as S. Africa as host. They have a good side. I'd be happy if Africa had another spot, because with the ridiculous amount of countries there (over 50) it makes for the posibilities of years like 2006 when only 1 of thier historical powers (based on African Cup wins, Ghana, Nigeria, Cameroon, Egypt) qualified for the Cup. I agree with you about Africa getting perhaps another spot, far more another spot for africa than an extra half a spot to north america and a full spot for oceania. It´s not just a matter of historical records, it´s a matter of being sensible and combining history and promise and giving everybody a chance ( which oceania and north america and asia do have already). If we look at quality of players then it´s very clear Africa has and is producing far more truly great players than any other continent apart from Europe and South America. I would prefer my world cups with essiens and drogbas, mantorras and etoos... I just do not think it fair if Europe gets less than 13-14 spots, and I think there is no reason to be disbelieving of the possibility that yeah, perhaps the 14th best european team is better than the 4th best north american one. ( completely incidentally, because it is not just numbers, I give far more credit to cameroon´s almost in 1990 than South Korea doing it in 2002 or the USA doing it in a very depleted tournament way way back in 1930) about egypt no idea at all, sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Iceman of the North Posted November 25, 2007 Author Share Posted November 25, 2007 CONCACAF Winner of first stage against one of the top 12 teams. The second stage would be (the number indicates which group the winner will end up in in the third stage): 1A USA vs. Dominica or Barbados 1B Guatemala vs. Turks & Caicos Islands or St. Lucia 1C Trinidad & Tobago vs. Bermuda or Cayman Islands 1D Aruba or Antigua & Barbuda vs. Cuba 2A Belize or St. Kitts & Nevis vs. Mexico 2B Jamaica vs. Bahamas or British Virgin Islands 2C Honduras vs. Dominican Republic or Puerto Rico 2D Canada vs. St. Vincent & the Grenadines 3A US Virgin Islands or Grenada vs. Costa Rica 3B Suriname or Montserrat vs. Guyana 3C Panama vs. El Salvador or Anguilla 3D Haiti vs. Nicaragua or Netherlands Antilles So the US is likely to end up in the same group as Cuba in the third stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annelise Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 What was that, an american complaining of the existance of the world cup? Inevitable law of internet, but geesh, first thread is not even 24 hours old, or 20 posts long. Save the trolling for 2009 at least... Hey, hey, says Shryke is from Toronto, Canada. Just sayin'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Iceman of the North Posted November 25, 2007 Author Share Posted November 25, 2007 Toronto is in North America last I checked, thus Shryke is an American. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltaran Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 And England have a trip to Kazakhstan, among others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horus Ex Machina Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 I would prefer my world cups with essiens and drogbas, mantorras and etoos... Don't forget Kanu and Fortune. I just do not think it fair if Europe gets less than 13-14 spots, and I think there is no reason to be disbelieving of the possibility that yeah, perhaps the 14th best european team is better than the 4th best north american one. Your case is solid there. ( completely incidentally, because it is not just numbers, I give far more credit to cameroon´s almost in 1990 than South Korea doing it in 2002 or the USA doing it in a very depleted tournament way way back in 1930) Definitely. Shame that they weren't there in '06. Great that Roger Milla had a chance to shine in the twilight of his career. about egypt no idea at all, sorry.Make's no sense. Apparently the African qualifiers are already in their first round. Does anyone know the draw there? I'd like to see where Nigeria is. If they don't qualify this year, especially with the WC being in Africa, I might actually cry. And grown-ass men just do not cry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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