Quaithe = Melisandre?

[arya_underfoot]

sounds to me like shadowbinders and rhllors sect are different groups- one is a soceity of sorcerers and the other a religious or pseudo-religious sect. maybe mel learnt some shadowbinding and decided to become a priestess of rhllor whilst quaithe is purely a shadowbinder with no religious ties to rhllor.

[shadowbinding shoe]

In a Bran dream in GoT Bran looks around the world and when he looks at Asshai he see dragons.

Also:

“Have you ever seen a dragon?†she asked as Irri scrubbed her back and Jhiqui sluiced sand from her hair. She had heard that the first dragons had come from the east, from the Shadow Lands beyond Asshai and the islands of the Jade Sea. Perhaps some were still living there, in realms strange and wild.

I'm not sure if Dany is right here, but it's likely she'll find some dragons if she heads that way.

As for the shadowlands (which are distinct from Asshai that is just near the shadow and has an anti-darkness fire religion), I always imagined them as a land shrouded in mist where there is never any direct sunlight. The grass there is called ghost grass and is prophecied to take over the world at the end of days:

Down in the Shadow Lands beyond Asshai, they say there are oceans of ghost grass, taller than a man on horseback with stalks as pale as milkglass. It murders all other grass and glows in the dark with the spirits of the damned. The Dothraki claim that someday ghost grass will cover the entire world, and then all life will end.â€

It seems to be a place filled with spirits/ghosts. Supposedly they still have magic that is protected from the rigors of the outer world by their shadow. Their power seems to be weaker outside their lands (they can't inject Sam with insta-courage)

From the Dany chapters among the Dothraki it sounds like the world (or the Eastern continent at least) is divided into two halves. The normal half where magic is gone, and the shadowed half where magic still exists. We have no idea how big the shadowlands really are but from that it sounds as though they are huge.

We know the Dothraki raided these lands in the past (or could it be that at that time the shadowlands or their people were more widespread?) because Dany observes stolen statues of their gods in Vaes Dothrak:

Beyond the horse gate, plundered gods and stolen heroes loomed to either side of them. The forgotten deities of dead cities brandished their broken thunderbolts at the sky as Dany rode her silver past their feet. Stone kings looked down on her from their thrones, their faces chipped and stained, even their names lost in the mists of time. Lithe young maidens danced on marble plinths, draped only in flowers, or poured air from shattered jars. Monsters stood in the grass beside the road; black iron dragons with jewels for eyes, roaring griffins, manticores with their barbed tails poised to strike, and other beasts she could not name. Some of the statues were so lovely they took her breath away, others so misshapen and terrible that Dany could scarcely bear to look at them. Those, Ser Jorah said, had likely come from the Shadow Lands beyond Asshai.

[Olenna]

In a Bran dream in GoT Bran looks around the world and when he looks at Asshai he see dragons.

Also:

“Have you ever seen a dragon?†she asked as Irri scrubbed her back and Jhiqui sluiced sand from her hair. She had heard that the first dragons had come from the east, from the Shadow Lands beyond Asshai and the islands of the Jade Sea. Perhaps some were still living there, in realms strange and wild.

I'm not sure if Dany is right here, but it's likely she'll find some dragons if she heads that way.

As for the shadowlands (which are distinct from Asshai that is just near the shadow and has an anti-darkness fire religion), I always imagined them as a land shrouded in mist where there is never any direct sunlight.

Thanks for clearing up my geographical confusion!

Bran's dream and the legend Dany heard seem like pretty good evidence that there are (or at least were) dragons in the Shadowlands, but I have one objection: when Pyat Pree, Xaro Xhoan Daxos and Quaithe join Dany's khalasar early in ACoK, Quaithe says that they have come seeking dragons. Now, if there were already dragons in the Shadow Lands (where Quaithe purports to be from), Dany's dragons wouldn't seem all that special and Quaithe would have little motivation to come see them.

Unless Quaithe is lying and has really come to see Dany, not the dragons--which is entirely possible.

[Jon Targaryen]

I have always thought those dragons that are "stirring" in Asshai are fossilized dragon eggs waiting to be awoken with king's blood and sacrifice.

[Olenna]

I have always thought those dragons that are "stirring" in Asshai are fossilized dragon eggs waiting to be awoken with king's blood and sacrifice.

Now that's an appealing theory. It preserves the "specialness" of Dany's dragons while also accounting for the evidence that there's a connection between Asshai/the Shadow Lands and dragons.

So...do you think Quaithe is trying to lure Dany to Asshai so she can burn her on a pyre à la Mel and wake more dragons?

[Guest Other-in-law]

Supposedly they still have magic that is protected from the rigors of the outer world by their shadow. Their power seems to be weaker outside their lands (they can't inject Sam with insta-courage)

I believe that was actually some blue-lipped Warlocks from Qarth who failed to make a man of Sam, with their bull's blood bath. The Undying definitely seem to have become enfeebled by the general decrease in magic, but Mirri Maz Duur was able to do some shadowbinding in Drogo's tent before the dragons were born.

Maybe that means shadowbinding wasn't affected as much, or maybe MMD's spells benefited from a penumbra of magic boosting by being so close to the prophesied dragon-waking (take that, causality!).

Likewise, since the dragon birthing was indirectly facilitated by MMD's shadowbinding, maybe that's the Asshai/Shadowland connection in Bran's dream? I agree that Mel and Quaithe's interest in the dragons makes the existence of other dragons in the east improbable.

[Ghost's claw]

Mel and Quaithe's interest in the dragons makes the existence of other dragons in the east improbable.

[Andhaira]

I am not so sure. I think Quaithe and Mel are more interested in the person rather than the drgons. Basically, they are looking for the PTWP; and since Dany awoke 3 dragons, its a good clue that she might be the PTwP.

Regarding the OT; I too get some vibes from Mel and Quaithe. At the least they know of each other, or have met. Perhaps one was the master, and the other is the apprentice. But which is which eh? Also, we never see Quaith without her mask. Perhaps she is a 'construct/simulracum' animated by the will of Melisandre. Very farfetched I know but you never know.

I do know that iits very possible Mel surives to meet Dany and possibly Quaith face to face. And when that happens, fiery sparks will fly. And I also don't think we have yet seen an inkling of Melisandre's full power, which IMO she is saving for the last battle. Check out the way she took out the most powerful Warg on the face of Westeros; she could do that to Bran just as easily no matter how powerful Bran is. (unless Bran also learns the elemental magics of the children...you know, which they used to destroy the 'arm' connecting Westeros to the eastern continnent)

Lastly, someone asked if only women can be shadowbinders; I think there is a good possibility this is true. Just check out the nature of conjuring shadows (aka Mel giving brith) So I think you probably need to have a womb to be a shadowbinder.

[garfner]

Of course, it's not clear where the equator is, but if the planet is bigger than earth (which GRRM has said) than they're probably not literally on opposite sides; and if they were it would require a "hot" south pole, which doesn't seem very likely

Is Asshai hot?

Dont remember reading this but always assumed it was.

[Prince of the North]

With a name like "Asshai" it's gotta be hot!

[CrypticWeirwood]

I should have been clearer. I'm not saying that any random person in a mask is someone important whom we've already met. But when a person in a mask starts playing a significant role and a great deal of attention is called to the fact that they're wearing a mask, it becomes suggestive. Besides, the other Qartheen do not wear masks; Quaithe is the only one, and we're told that "it disturbed [Dany] that she had never seen the woman's face." Also, Quaithe speaks the Common Tongue of the 7 Kingdoms--unlike almost everyone else Dany has met on her travels. Coincidence? Maybe, maybe not.

All I'm saying is that when a character shows up who is exaggeratedly foreign and mysterious (no last name, wears a mask, speaks in cryptic pronouncements) yet seems to have knowledge relevant to the main character and the main character's culture, it suggests at the very least that the author is gearing up for a big revelation about that character.

Everybody needs a mystic mentor, eh?

I wonder what ever became of Shiera Seastar, who is said to have been a sorceress (whose mother knew life-extension magic) and the paramour of Bloodraven, a sorceror. I looked for anything on Quaithe’s eyes to see whether they matched Shiera’s, but nothing is said one way or the other.

[ICE CROW]

Ive never bought into the theory of Quaite being Melisandre, there just isn't enough written to lead to this conclusion. The only thing i call recall possibly linking the 2 of them, is they are both from Asshai, thats not enough for me.

[DarkstarCrashes]

In DwD Quaithe appears to Dany when she is floating in the pool in her pyramid and when Dany tells her that she could call her guards and have her killed Quaithe responds with "They will swear to you that I am not here." Is it possible that Mellisandre can project herself into Dany's mind and make her think that she is there when she is really at the wall?

[armidil0]

Quaithe=/=Melisandre. But I like the idea that Thoros is the counterweight to Mel. If some one is the counterweight to Quaithe, it would be Marwin.

[DarkstarCrashes]

That would make sense to me also. I think AA=Beric btw