Lost season 4.1.b.2

[Starkess]

With the exception of the gagging Hurley-cannonball scene (was the slow motion really necessary?), I thought the episode was GREAT! Can't wait til next week!!

[HokieStone]

Ahh...there's that feeling I've been missing - the feeling of an hour flying by, and the end of it, thinking...WHAT?!?! Tiny little tidbits given out...and yet again more questions.

Random, stream of consciousness thoughts...

- I guess this flash-forward was earlier than Jack's. Hopefully it doesn't become painfully difficult to piece together where all these flash forwards fall with respect to each other.

- "The Oceanic Six" - so only six make it back? We know that Jack, Kate and Hurley are 3 of them, so who are the other 3? Whoever was in the coffin? Sawyer (the common assumption that he was the "he" that Kate was talking about in the last flash-forward. But he goes with Locke. But so did Hurley and he's one of the six. Aaaaaahhhhh)

- What secret did Jack not want Hurley to reveal? That there are other survivors still on the island?

- Really, who would have gone with Locke? Charlie's message notwithstanding. You're about to get rescued from the island that you crashed on, where you were subsequently assaulted by the "Others". And you're staying because crazy Locke says you should, and dying Charlie wrote "Not Penny's boat" on his hand?

- Between Rose telling Claire to "treat your man right", and Claire looking wide-eyed for Charlie when they all meet at the plane wreckage, they were pulling out the tear-jerk moments tonight.

- Hurley at Jacob's cabin - was it real? Was Locke the person who popped up in the window? I didn't like the "Hurley's Imaginary Friend" episode - I don't like this too much either. Too much leeway for the producers to eventually pull a "this all happened in Hurley's head" kind of trick.

- Who are these people coming to the island? If they mean everyone harm, why would Naomi cover for the Losties with her dying breath?

- Here we are the start of season 4 - WHO ARE THE OTHERS, AND WHY ARE THEY ON THIS ISLAND?!?!!?! WHAT WAS DHARMA TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH ON THE ISLAND? WHO WERE THE "HOSTILES" THAT WERE THERE BEFORE DHARMA AND SEEM TO MAKE UP MOST OF THE CURRENT "OTHERS"?!?!! Sorry, just had to get that off my chest.

- Anybody watch the craptacular-looking "Eli Stone" (is this a male Ally McBeal?) to see the Oceanic Airlines commercial?

[Demonblade]

It seems to me that the flash forwards are going to work. This episode laid the groudwork pretty effectively of a whole new mystery and a whole new way of telling the story. We all knew that a new twist was coming, and judging by this episode, it looks like they can pull it off.

I dunno about this episode not moving forward enough, as it shows that six people managed to get off the island, one of the big plot threads being solved.

[awesome possum]

It felt to me like there were no flash-forwards, just flashbacks. The show is now based in the outside world. The island will be the flashbacks, with the events leading up to the eventual rescue.

[HokieStone]

It felt to me like there were no flash-forwards, just flashbacks. The show is now based in the outside world. The island will be the flashbacks, with the events leading up to the eventual rescue.

Except that this "flash-forward" was earlier than the previous one. Events on the island have always moved linearly. I think.

[Jon Targaryen]

I'm not reading the comments yet as I'm on the West Coast watching the first hour but I just have to say this whole summary crap blows.

[Demonblade]

- I guess this flash-forward was earlier than Jack's. Hopefully it doesn't become painfully difficult to piece together where all these flash forwards fall with respect to each other.

Obviously the flash forwards aren't chronological. I think they are there this season to show why Jack came to the conclusion that he had to tell Kate that they have to go back to the island.

- "The Oceanic Six" - so only six make it back? We know that Jack, Kate and Hurley are 3 of them, so who are the other 3? Whoever was in the coffin? Sawyer (the common assumption that he was the "he" that Kate was talking about in the last flash-forward. But he goes with Locke. But so did Hurley and he's one of the six. Aaaaaahhhhh)

My guess is that Hurley and Sawyer go back to where Jack and Kate are. And since Rose said that she wasn't going anywhere with John and her husband saying that he will stay with her no matter where she wants to go, I'd say that those two are the other two who make it off the island. My guess is that the person in the coffin is Bernard.

- What secret did Jack not want Hurley to reveal? That there are other survivors still on the island?

That'd be my guess. Either that or, you know, the big cloud of murderous smoke that can fucking grab you, hoist you in the air, slam you to the ground and repeat as necessary.

- Really, who would have gone with Locke? Charlie's message notwithstanding. You're about to get rescued from the island that you crashed on, where you were subsequently assaulted by the "Others". And you're staying because crazy Locke says you should, and dying Charlie wrote "Not Penny's boat" on his hand?

The whole series was basically a struggle between Jack's pragmatism and Locke's embracing of the island. The castaways always appeared to be apprehensive as to which of the two to follow. Besides, it wasn't necessarily Locke they were following. Sawyer, Hurley and Sayid all had suspicions as to their would-be rescuers' intentions and were reluctant to go with them. Remember it was Hurley who threw away that walkie-talkee so as to not allow Sawyer to warn Jack, not Locke.

- Between Rose telling Claire to "treat your man right", and Claire looking wide-eyed for Charlie when they all meet at the plane wreckage, they were pulling out the tear-jerk moments tonight.

Well they had to deal with Charlie's death somehow. Having Claire simply shrug off news of Charlie's death would have been silly.

- Hurley at Jacob's cabin - was it real? Was Locke the person who popped up in the window?

I haven't a clue, but I'm sure that it's important enough to be answered sometime this season.

- Who are these people coming to the island? If they mean everyone harm, why would Naomi cover for the Losties with her dying breath?

I think that's probably what the bulk of the season's going to attempt to explain.

- Here we are the start of season 4 - WHO ARE THE OTHERS, AND WHY ARE THEY ON THIS ISLAND?!?!!?! WHAT WAS DHARMA TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH ON THE ISLAND? WHO WERE THE "HOSTILES" THAT WERE THERE BEFORE DHARMA AND SEEM TO MAKE UP MOST OF THE CURRENT "OTHERS"?!?!!

Did you really expect one of the central mysteries of the series would be solved at the beginning of the season?

[Winterfella]

Who are the other three of the Oceanic 6?

I've gotta believe that Michael and Walt are two of them. I actually kept expecting to see Michael pop up at some point in this episode because his name was in the opening credits.

[HokieStone]

Obviously the flash forwards aren't chronological. I think they are there this season to show why Jack came to the conclusion that he had to tell Kate that they have to go back to the island.

Obviously.

My guess is that Hurley and Sawyer go back to where Jack and Kate are. And since Rose said that she wasn't going anywhere with John and her husband saying that he will stay with her no matter where she wants to go, I'd say that those two are the other two who make it off the island. My guess is that the person in the coffin is Bernard.

If it's Bernard in the coffin, Jack's reaction at the funeral home, and the fact that there were no mourners, and Kate's vehement reaction as to why she wouldn't go to the funeral would make no sense. Unless they really take Bernard in a different direction from here on out.

The whole series was basically a struggle between Jack's pragmatism and Locke's embracing of the island. The castaways always appeared to be apprehensive as to which of the two to follow. Besides, it wasn't necessarily Locke they were following. Sawyer, Hurley and Sayid all had suspicions as to their would-be rescuers' intentions and were reluctant to go with them. Remember it was Hurley who threw away that walkie-talkee so as to not allow Sawyer to warn Jack, not Locke.

I don't really think those other 60-odd survivors have been viewing this as some big science-vs.-faith struggle. In fact if I was one of them, I'd be wondering why about 10 or so of my fellow survivors keep plunging into the jungle on wild quests of various sorts. And I'd want off the damn island.

Well they had to deal with Charlie's death somehow. Having Claire simply shrug off news of Charlie's death would have been silly.

Well yes, I know that. I wasn't criticizing that part of the show, just commenting on it. I thought the scenes with Claire were a little heartbreaking, even if bordering on melodramatic.

Did you really expect one of the central mysteries of the series would be solved at the beginning of the season?

No, but as I said, I had to get it off my chest.

[awesome possum]

I think Sayid, Sun, and Jin are the other 3. In my opinion, they'd be the most compelling stories. Sun and Jin going back to South Korea and Sayid's quest for Nadine.

Or maybe Sayid is Kate's "He"?

[Soul on Ice and Fire]

- "The Oceanic Six" - so only six make it back? We know that Jack, Kate and Hurley are 3 of them, so who are the other 3? Whoever was in the coffin? Sawyer (the common assumption that he was the "he" that Kate was talking about in the last flash-forward. But he goes with Locke. But so did Hurley and he's one of the six. Aaaaaahhhhh)

Don't count out Michael and Walt.

- What secret did Jack not want Hurley to reveal? That there are other survivors still on the island?

Sounds like it. Maybe some of them are assuming a stay behind effort to guard the Island like the Others/Dharma people.

- Really, who would have gone with Locke? Charlie's message notwithstanding. You're about to get rescued from the island that you crashed on, where you were subsequently assaulted by the "Others". And you're staying because crazy Locke says you should, and dying Charlie wrote "Not Penny's boat" on his hand?

Yep, more Mysterious Fuzzy Thinking Syndrome(MFTS) on the Island.

- Here we are the start of season 4 - WHO ARE THE OTHERS, AND WHY ARE THEY ON THIS ISLAND?!?!!?! WHAT WAS DHARMA TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH ON THE ISLAND? WHO WERE THE "HOSTILES" THAT WERE THERE BEFORE DHARMA AND SEEM TO MAKE UP MOST OF THE CURRENT "OTHERS"?!?!! Sorry, just had to get that off my chest.

Yep. And where are the Others now? And actually, other than Richard Alpert, do we know any of them were actually Hostiles?

More nothingness. The only clues/tie ins were the portrait of the Black Rock's captain(?) on the wall of the cabin, and Ana Lucia's partner as the cop who interrogated Hugo. Whoop-de-do.

[Demonblade]

If it's Bernard in the coffin, Jack's reaction at the funeral home, and the fact that there were no mourners, and Kate's vehement reaction as to why she wouldn't go to the funeral would make no sense. Unless they really take Bernard in a different direction from here on out.

It actually makes a lot of sense. Kate reacted with indifference to news of that person's death. We think the person was a guy, and it was in a black neighbourhood, IIRC. His wife is black and they might have lived in her neighbourhood. The reason why nobody's at his funeral could be because Rose was already dead and Bernard didn't have anybody to attend.

[Demonblade]

I don't really think those other 60-odd survivors have been viewing this as some big science-vs.-faith struggle. In fact if I was one of them, I'd be wondering why about 10 or so of my fellow survivors keep plunging into the jungle on wild quests of various sorts. And I'd want off the damn island.

You might be right, but as I said, it wasn't just Locke that didn't want to run toward their would-be rescuers.

[Soul on Ice and Fire]

It actually makes a lot of sense. Kate reacted with indifference to news of that person's death. We think the person was a guy, and it was in a black neighbourhood, IIRC. His wife is black and they might have lived in her neighbourhood. The reason why nobody's at his funeral could be because Rose was already dead and Bernard didn't have anybody to attend.

Michael being in the black neighborhood makes more sense. Rose and Bernard were from back East, Chicago IIRC. The funeral was in LA, where I think Michael and Walt were based out of.

Does the dialog in the funeral parlor make sense if it was Michael? He became an outcast when turned his cloak on the Losties. Maybe he was known to the Oceanic Six, but the outside world didn't really know he had made it back. Michael didn't have a pot to piss in IIRC, and he wouldn't have gotten any survivor money if he had made it out like the Oceanic Six.

ETA OT: I just got a spam email from "Lucas Cobb".

ETA II: The Looking Glass is just turned off, not disabled. My guess is someone from Locke's group will go down again and turn the jammer back on.

[Demonblade]

Having Michael and Walt suddenly appear out of nowhere seems to lack sense. Besides, I should repeat that Rose specifically said that she wasn't going anywhere with Locke, leaving the only option to be with Jack. That makes four, and since we know Hurley makes it back and in the season 3 cliffhanger, Kate has to leave Jack to go back to some unnamed guy, the only logical one left would be Sawyer.

And why would Michael and Walt be seen as two of the Oceanic Six? They were already off the island. Are they supposed to jump out of a crowd in a news conference and declare that they survived the Oceanic flight too by Michael killing two of the passengers?

[Demonblade]

Also, did anybody catch what the voices were saying at that cabin? I'm re-watching the episode and I couldn't catch it.

[Soul on Ice and Fire]

Having Michael and Walt suddenly appear out of nowhere seems to lack sense.

Heh, nothing in this show makes sense. Walt appeared on the edge of the mass grave after being gone for a season. Michael could pop up somewhere. IIRC the producers said he would be making a comeback.

Besides, I should repeat that Rose specifically said that she wasn't going anywhere with Locke, leaving the only option to be with Jack. That makes four, and since we know Hurley makes it back and in the season 3 cliffhanger, Kate has to leave Jack to go back to some unnamed guy, the only logical one left would be Sawyer.

Rose has a terminal illness that will kill her if she leaves the Island. She may be iffy about Jack and the rescuers, but she knows Locke is a nutcase. Maybe she'll go off by herself?

And why would Michael and Walt be seen as two of the Oceanic Six? They were already off the island. Are they supposed to jump out of a crowd in a news conference and declare that they survived the Oceanic flight too by Michael killing two of the passengers?

No, you've got my (unclear) point backwards. Walt and Michael presumably made it off the Island. Since Michael murdered Libby and assisted kidnapping others he would have a desire to maintain a low profile in case the rest of the survivors turn up. Maybe he contacted the O6 discreetly once they got back? He dies somehow, and Jack goes to the funeral. Or maybe Jack digs up Michael, discreetly, looking for some way to get back to the Island? Using Walt? Maybe someone knocks off Michael in revenge for Libby's death...like Hurley?

Weak, I know, but it's all we got out of this crap episode.

[Demonblade]

Heh, nothing in this show makes sense. Walt appeared on the edge of the mass grave after being gone for a season. Michael could pop up somewhere. IIRC the producers said he would be making a comeback.

Ah, but was that really Walt?

Rose has a terminal illness that will kill her if she leaves the Island. She may be iffy about Jack and the rescuers, but she knows Locke is a nutcase. Maybe she'll go off by herself?

There's nothing to indicate that the island's healing powers are only effective on the island.

No, you've got my (unclear) point backwards. Walt and Michael presumably made it off the Island. Since Michael murdered Libby and assisted kidnapping others he would have a desire to maintain a low profile in case the rest of the survivors turn up. Maybe he contacted the O6 discreetly once they got back? He dies somehow, and Jack goes to the funeral. Or maybe Jack digs up Michael, discreetly, looking for some way to get back to the Island? Using Walt? Maybe someone knocks off Michael in revenge for Libby's death...like Hurley?

Weak, I know, but it's all we got out of this crap episode.

So now you're saying that Michael and Walt made it off the island secretly and that they communicated with Jack and Kate secretly? Then why would Hurley call himself one of the Oceanic Six when they should be the Oceanic Four? Your logic is getting more convoluted the more you explain.

[Jon Targaryen]

Ok, watched the episode. It was eh, imo. I loved that Jack tried to shoot Locke. To quote Stifler, "YES! THAT'S AWESOME!" Too bad the gun wasn't loaded. Hurley is continuing to develop as a leader. I love it. People going with Locke pissed me off, even though he was probably right this time (though Hurley's comment to Jack in the flash-forward has me doubting).

Ok, to the main mystery, imo.

Who are the other three of the Oceanic Six? First off, we can put Desmond, Rousseau, her daughter and boyfriend, Juliet, Ben and probably others I'm forgetting as possible survivors apart from the Six. Rousseau and her daughter probably don't leave the ilsand. The person in the coffin doesn't have to be one of the Six. I'm not gonna guess yet as to who the other three are as there doesn't seem to be enough info yet. But are we sure all the others die? There are a lot of damn survivors besides the characters. That would be some serious dying.

[aeu]

Ahh...there's that feeling I've been missing - the feeling of an hour flying by, and the end of it, thinking...WHAT?!?! Tiny little tidbits given out...and yet again more questions.

lol, so true....

Really, who would have gone with Locke?

Especially considering that he refuses to explain himself. I have no idea how Locke knew that Naomi and her people were coming to kill them. But fine, let's say he somehow knows. Now he's trying to convince people of that. So does Ben. Yet all they do is keep saying "Listen to me, these people will kill you, just believe me. I will not explain who they are, how I know they are dangerous and what the hell is going on, I'll just say again and again that you gotta believe me. Even though it's not really working."

I know, I know, this is Lost and the basic premise works only because people behave like total idiots, don't ask each other what's going on.

Still, this was a bot too mush. At one point, Locke even said "I know I have a lot of explaining to do." Yet, refused to do virtually any explaining.

Also, a question: At the very end, did Hurley referred to something as "it"? He said something like "It wants us to go back to the island, it's doing everything it can.", no? Not a he or she or they, but it. Was he talking about the smoke monster?