The Jon's Parentage Re-Read 2

[Shewoman]

grinachu, there's still a lot we don't know about N+A or R+L. But we do know that Rhaegar and Lyanna's relationship, consensual or not, had a major (and horrific) effect on Westeros. As far as I can tell, N+A didn't. I wouldn't say that that puts Rhaegar and Lyanna at the heart of the Harrenhal tournament (although if she's the Knight of the Laughing Tree, that does make her a major player there), but I do think it gives their affair greater significance than N+A, which so far is an attraction at a tourney noted by several people that, due to the war, conflicting loyalties, and family obligations, did not lead to a permanent relationship based on what we know now.

[Black Wizard]

Robert says to Eddard in GOT "I vowed to kill him for what he did to her." The room Ned found Lyanna in smelt of blood. Any ideas what Rhaegar would have done to Lyanna to put Robert in such a rage?

[Faldor]

Robert thought Wylla was the mother of Jon and if The Lyanna + Rhaegar = Jon is correct it was the lie that Ned told Robert and everyone else to hide who are the real parents of Jon

[A wilding]

Any ideas what Rhaegar would have done to Lyanna to put Robert in such a rage?

Robert named Rhaegar's carrying off of Lyanna as rape. In his world, the kidnap and rape of one's betrothed is a mortal offence, and certainly justifies the vow he talks of, especially as he is still in love with an idealised version of Lyanna, while apparently not understanding much what she was really like (somewhat of a parallel to Littlefinger and Catelyn in fact).

[Shewoman]

Grinachu said, "Ned Stark is a just man, and believed Robert's rebellion justified on grounds that turned out to be untrue." I'm not clear on this. What really got the war going was a) Brandon going to KL to confront Rhaegar and Aerys killing Rickard and Brandon Stark along with their attendants and their attendants' fathers, and c) then calling on Jon Arryn to send him Robert's and Ned's heads. Brandon's actions may have been based on belief in the rape story, but none of the rest of these things were.

[Slingingstones]

This thread is fascinating and I hope it's never too late to ask; but, I must ask...if R+L=J, then Daenerys is Jon's aunt, correct?

[Lady of Casterly Rock]

@ Slingingstones: yes, Daenerys is Jon´s aunt, if R + L= J proofs true. I really enjoyed reading this old topic and "The Jon´s Parantage Re-Read 1". On my pre-a dance with dragons re-read I thought one passage was quite interesting if L+R=J is true and if Jon isn´t the Name Lyanna chose for her baby. On page 775 (American paperback) is says:"...but Jon was done with denials. He was who he was; Jon Snow, bastard, oathbreaker, motherless, friendless, and dammed. For the rest of his life - however long that might be - he would be condemned to be an outsider, the silent man standing in the shadows who dares not to speak his true name. Wherever he might go throughout the Seven Kingdom, he would need to live a lie, lest every men´s hand be raise against him."

If Lyanna gave Jon a Targaryen Name Ned did not dare to speak it and named him Jon. If Robert had known that Jon is the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and still in Westros, he would have payed his killer well. That means, if R + L = J is true Jon has lived the life that he expects als a deserter from the night`s watch already. Perhaps this is a little joke of George R. R. Martin. Or perhaps it means nothing and i´m overinterpreting.