Nerdanel Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 I love maps. I think every fantasy book that involves travelling around the world should have a map. Reading The Blade Itself I had a very vague idea of how things lied in relation to each other. In particular, I had trouble figuring out on which shore of the Circle Sea Midderland was. Yeah, NOW I get the significance of the name, but for some reason it never occurred to me while reading that Midderland might be an island in the Circle Sea. I think by the end I had decided it was most likely on the south shore and that there was another unnamed sea in the south separating it from Gurkhul. I thought Midderland used ships travel across a large, round inner sea because it was convenient, not because it was the only way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Roses Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 Me - I love maps. Maps of cities, maps of worlds, maps of countries, maps of thin squiggles on skins ripped off the back of unfortunate beasts with here be dragons on the edges. In a fantasy book I suppose the author has the right to reserve such things but it would be nice Mr Abercrombie if you could publish a map on your website for us mappi mundi fans. I always think a map in a fantasy book is sometimes a good indication of whether the author has actually thought about his world or whether he has just thrown together a couple islands, a dash of continents, a few mountains ranges dumped in the middle with the tired here be Vikings in the north, civilisation on the middle and mysterious hot southerners somewhere down there. hhhhmmm why does that sound familiar However, what is totally unforgiveable is a history book without a map. Only snotty historians who are bitter and twisted that nobody attends their lectures publish incomprehensible books without maps in some sort of revenge on students. A plague on all your houses..... Wert, where do you find the time to do all these things? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCloskey Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 I'm a big fan of maps. In fact, all this talk about the Map of Midderland has gotten me rethinking reading the Blade Itself.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HokieStone Posted February 25, 2008 Author Share Posted February 25, 2008 There's a more complete investigation of the map question on me blog, with way better gags in it. I probably don't have much to add to that, myself. Some folks may not find those reasons compelling, but then that's true of any aspect of the approach you take. I dunno, I guess I'm the opposite of some of the reasons you list on your blog. I've never felt that a map has made me feel less...uh...intimate with the characters. And it's certainly never made me feel like I was floating dispassionately above the action. On the contrary, not having the map breaks me out of the story...as the characters talk about various locales and why such and such actions are important, I'd like to have the map so I can see the logic behind the conversation/actions. Not having it gives me a little itch of annoyance, and that "itch" makes it harder to immerse myself in the story. A crude map is fine by me...I'm not one to obsess that City X is 20 leagues further south than would be indicated by the text. The other thing is, given the genre, and how many folks seem to like maps, it seems inevitable that maps are going to be made, and especially in this day and age of the internet, get distributed around. We see it in this very thread, with Wert's map, and Joe telling him how off it is. If I were an author, I think I'd be annoyed that people were promulgating something wrong about my story, and I'd want to set things right. But all that is just my opinion, of course. And if all else fails, how about if I pound my fists on the table and scream like a baby...will that get me a map? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcf Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 first, I love maps - I'm a very visual-spatial kind of person (not surprising in a geologist). I've always enjoyed just looking at maps and when they are present in books (generally), I like 'em and reference them often. However, if a book needs a map, it's a bad book and the author failed. A novel should never need a map unless it's off on some very stylistic/experimental extreme. Abercrombie's books work just fine for me without a map. If Joe doesn't want to put maps in, then more power to him (and he's got the right editor for that belief in Simon). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 Wert, where do you find the time to do all these things? Day off. No girlfriend at the moment. Temporarily living 500 miles from home without much to do of an evening Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Roses Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 Day off. No girlfriend at the moment. Temporarily living 500 miles from home without much to do of an evening oh for fuck sakes - you're in Ireland - go the pub! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry. Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 Maps too often are a crutch in my opinion. One of many attempts to "literalize" an imagined setting, as one not-beloved author might say I barely glance at the things if one is included, preferring for the most part to concentrate on the story at hand and not overmuch on the setting. And as for history books not including maps, they're nigh useless for certain subfields such as cultural history, when the focus is on things other than a place's geography. Then again, I might be biased here, considering what my MA was in... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MethodMan Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 I like maps too, but I can see the reason why some authors wouldn't want them in their books. One thing that'd be good to see is having a map maybe come up inside the story so you can't just go search the end or start of the book all the time; have the map connected to the story type of thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angalin Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 Take for example, ASOIAF, which has had a few gaffs in it, and more than a few people reacting to things that aren't there. OTOH, lots of people are quite peeved that they don't know where the free cities are so... I just pretend that page fell out of my copy of Westeros Geographic. Works quite well. The Terry Pratchett approach is interesting: write fifteen novels set in the world and then get one of your mates to make sense of the text and draw up the maps from your often contradictary text whilst you sit around and make snarky comments and then publish them for profit.** This... explains a lot. But the street names are still fantastic. (ETA: All that said, I still want a copy of Transit Maps of the World for my vicarious travelling pleasures.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthmail Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 If you are building a world from scratch, and your focus is that world, there should be maps. I know David Gemmell didn't have maps, and i sort of wish there was some. I don't generally look at the maps, but if i have a geography question, then i like my friggin maps. I don't want to have to decipher friggin text, i want to see squiggly coast lines and little pokey mountains. I like to see how different topographical locations are causing problems for the heroes. Is it required, no. But there is ZERO reason not to include them, if only on the authors web page. Those who ignore maps will still ignore it, and those who love it can rub one off and sing the authors praises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 I love maps in books. I think there's many types of books that need maps. Usually when the story involves the larger picture. But it doesn't need to be detailed or anything. Just enough so that when someone talks about where something is, I have a general idea of where that is in relation to everything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diabloblanco18 Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 I don't generally look at the maps, but if i have a geography question, then i like my friggin maps. I don't want to have to decipher friggin text, i want to see squiggly coast lines and little pokey mountains. Why do you even bother to turn the page past the map, then? In hope that there are more maps sprinkled throughout the book? That *is* sometimes the case, I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 oh for fuck sakes - you're in Ireland - go the pub! You buying? Surprisingly, there isn't a pub on every street corner here. The nearest pub to me is about a 30-minute walk away If you are building a world from scratch, and your focus is that world, there should be maps. I know David Gemmell didn't have maps, and i sort of wish there was some. Some maps were includedin the last two or three Drenai books. However, they weren't too popular with the fans. Apparently Gemmell just picked a fan's map he thought looked about right and went with it rather than doing anything himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amras Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 As with everything else, there are two sides to this whole map issue. One can justify there not being a map in a book if the action takes place on a very small scale, like Lynch's tLoLL. However, if the scope expands to characters travelling through different continents and waging wars on them, then there should definitely be a map. A great example of this I think is the map in WoT books. Those are indispensable and I can't imagine reading that series without them. Funny thing, though. I had a quick look at Werthead's "map" of the First Law world, and it wasn't far off from what was buzzing about in my head (I actually had Angland pictured more down to the left, but that's a moot point now). I guess that means that the First Law books has worked pretty well so far without a proper map, though I seriously think that there should be one available for the die hard fans. Scott Lynch has maps on his website - why can't Abercrombie do the same? All the other Big Macs have maps, Joe. Time to step up to the plate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lupigis Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 So (nerd glasses go on) are the North and the Old Empire-continent the same landmass, if they couldn't sail between them? I wondered about that too. Thats the only way that makes sense to me. If that is the case, I would like to know why the North never became part of the Old Empire. I also wonder how Logen and the rest will get back, but I suppose I shall have to wait another month tp find out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcf Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 I was inspired to blog about it, so take a look if you're curious (I don't really add anything to the discussion though). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delete this account pls Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 I love me some maps as well, but I think it's the author's choice whether to include one or not, and really they aren't particularly necessary. If the writer can't set the scene with words, they aren't a very good writer. Maps in historical fiction always make me laugh. Like there are readers going "Oh, THATS where Greece is." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spectralist Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 I never even look at maps in books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serious Callers Only Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 Its like covers. If i could i would never look at covers either. Any visual input detracts from my imagination. Its only in moderatly complicated situations like battle scenes that they might be useful, and anyway, those details should flow in the prose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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