Ebenstone Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 I'm always disappointed when there is no map but I think it's up to the writer if they feel it's necessary for their story. Truthfully, I think something like the Wheel of Time doesn't need a map...it's rather bland when you think in terms of fantasy...but I think it's vitally important to ASOIAF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Roses Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 You buying? Surprisingly, there isn't a pub on every street corner here. The nearest pub to me is about a 30-minute walk away yeah..........I'll even buy you two pints if you let me have a sneaky peek of Abercombie's ARC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Roses Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 Maps in historical fiction always make me laugh. Like there are readers going "Oh, THATS where Greece is." don't mock..........there are people who probably think Greece is a musical or a hair product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kat Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 first, I love maps - I'm a very visual-spatial kind of person (not surprising in a geologist). I've always enjoyed just looking at maps and when they are present in books (generally), I like 'em and reference them often. However, if a book needs a map, it's a bad book and the author failed. A novel should never need a map unless it's off on some very stylistic/experimental extreme. Abercrombie's books work just fine for me without a map. If Joe doesn't want to put maps in, then more power to him (and he's got the right editor for that belief in Simon). kcf- you're a geologist? Right on. I'm a big, big fan of maps too, and I've been known to gaze at atlases/aerial photos/topo maps for hours on end. And that's real life. I appreciate fantasy maps when they're good. In general, if the author doesn't want the reader to be omniscient, I wouldn't mind a sketch map that represents what the characters would know, or what a cartographer within the universe might make. If it's "The Civilized Worlde" in the center, some outlying regions like "The Bitterly Colde and Frozen North", well, to the north of Civilization, and "The Horrendously Terrible and Dry Desert of Deathe" to the south and "City of Our Devil Enemies" to the west, and everything else surrounded by ocean and the imagined ship-eating sea creatures that live there, so be it. I think my first post on the EZboard was about how much I hated the ASOIAF US edition maps. I got flamed for that, so I won't go there again. Edited to add: When I say 'good', I mean well-drawn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 Maps in historical fiction always make me laugh. Like there are readers going "Oh, THATS where Greece is." Are you kidding? I'm still amazed by the documentaries and news programmes in the run-up to the Iraq War showing people on the streets of New York City being completely unable to point out where Iraq was on a map. I think there's quite a few people who are grateful for such maps. Plus these maps are useful since, although the landmass is still the same, the borders of ancient nations are completely different and they may have different capital cities etc. yeah..........I'll even buy you two pints if you let me have a sneaky peek of Abercombie's ARC. If I could get the ARC back off the person I lent it to, deal Although the book's out in a matter of days now. Hopefully I'll get an ARC of Best Served Cold though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Abercrombie Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 Hopefully I'll get an ARC of Best Served Cold though... How about you write it and send me an ARC...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 I think my first post on the EZboard was about how much I hated the ASOIAF US edition maps. I got flamed for that, so I won't go there again. No kidding. Those maps suck. The ones in the UK editions of ASoS and the paperback of AFFC wipe the floor with them. Plus Ran's map of Westeros is superb. How about you write it and send me an ARC...? Only if I can put a map in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diabloblanco18 Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 I appreciate fantasy maps when they're good. In general, if the author doesn't want the reader to be omniscient, I wouldn't mind a sketch map that represents what the characters would know, or what a cartographer within the universe might make. If it's "The Civilized Worlde" in the center, some outlying regions like "The Bitterly Colde and Frozen North", well, to the north of Civilization, and "The Horrendously Terrible and Dry Desert of Deathe" to the south and "City of Our Devil Enemies" to the west, and everything else surrounded by ocean and the imagined ship-eating sea creatures that live there, so be it. I'd love to see a map like this behind the cover of a fantasy novel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcf Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 kcf- you're a geologist? Right on. The avatar holding a beer doesn't give it away? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kat Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 The avatar holding a beer doesn't give it away? Now that you mention it... I should have guessed. :/ Anyway, I also appreciate, in sequels, maps of Territory Covered So Far, especially if the characters are moving. Just to, you know, jog my memory. ETA: diablo, of course that very much goes against what sort of map I would have if I wrote epic fantasy. My novel would probably start from a map. Actually, to be fair, I would probably start from a map millions of years old, crash some continents together, figure out where the mountains and ore deposits should be, figure out where the water resources would be, figure out what the climate would be, and then add humans appropriately. Yes, that's my nerdtastic worldbuilding fantasy, so it's probably a good thing I'm not a writer. My maps would be far better than my story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 Maps in historical fiction always make me laugh. Like there are readers going "Oh, THATS where Greece is." Maybe their more thinking "Oh, that's where the small city in Greece is". Like I know where the fuck Sparta was beyond "Somewhere in Greece". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 PS - What's the difference in the maps for the various Editions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diabloblanco18 Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 ETA: diablo, of course that very much goes against what sort of map I would have if I wrote epic fantasy. My novel would probably start from a map. Actually, to be fair, I would probably start from a map millions of years old, crash some continents together, figure out where the mountains and ore deposits should be, figure out where the water resources would be, figure out what the climate would be, and then add humans appropriately. Yes, that's my nerdtastic worldbuilding fantasy, so it's probably a good thing I'm not a writer. My maps would be far better than my story. Actually, I'd be inclined toward the same level of detail. Not so much scientific, of course; I'm no geologist. But whenever I manage to finish one of my nascent fantasy novels, it's going to come with a very artsy and detailed map. Said map might even have a digital counterpart, constructed entirely in Photoshop from satellite imagery of the Earth. But that sort of thing is for after I finish. I'm a writer first, and a worldbuilder second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Abercrombie Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 I'm a writer first, and a worldbuilder second. Bingo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kat Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 But why? :cry: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry. Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 If I were ever to write a secondary-world fantasy and if I were forced to include a map, I'd make sure it'd be intentionally "wrong," just so I could gauge by all the indigent reader reactions just how closely they were paying attention in the first place. Then again, I'm an evil pedagogue first, a writer somewhat after that, and a worldbuilder somewhere around last Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diabloblanco18 Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 If I were ever to write a secondary-world fantasy and if I were forced to include a map, I'd make sure it'd be intentionally "wrong," just so I could gauge by all the indigent reader reactions just how closely they were paying attention in the first place. Then again, I'm an evil pedagogue first, a writer somewhat after that, and a worldbuilder somewhere around last This would be even more hilarious than Kat's "And Here Be Monsters..." map. However, I don't think very many people would notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Oop North Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 Surprisingly, there isn't a pub on every street corner here. The nearest pub to me is about a 30-minute walk away Liar! Don't destroy my vision of the Pub Heaven of the Universe! My dreams! You're crushing my dreams!!! :cry: Kat's map is tickling my cartography fetish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry. Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 This would be even more hilarious than Kat's "And Here Be Monsters..." map. However, I don't think very many people would notice. I don't know...the truly obsessed fans certainly would. They noticed when the sex of a freakin' horse changed in one particularly well-liked series around these parts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattD Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 Including a map in a book signals that a reader is meant to take the book with a level of "realism" that may not be appropriate for every story, no matter how much travel there is or how many battles, etc., there are. I do think that there are a lot of underutilized applications for maps in fantasy, though. I'd actually love to see more books with maps that were (intentionally) wrong to reflect the characters' limited understanding of their world; books where the use of maps in the text is reflected in the maps the reader is shown (a la The Hobbit); maps that reflect a link between geography and cosmology (as in Wolfe's Wizard Knight), etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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