College Basketball 2

[Rhom]

Well I'll be damned... Triskele, Red Eyed Ghost, aeu and myself seem to have damn near filled up 22 pages of stuff just talking basketball. The other topic closed itself, so I guess its time to fire up a new topic for the real crunch time and the most exciting month in college sports.

March Madness is here!!!!!!!

To continue the discussion on Arizona from the other thread, I think they may be one of the most intriguing bubble discussions I've ever seen. They have an RPI of 22 and a strength of schedule that is tops in the nation... but they've only got 16 wins as of right now and are a serious threat to have a losing record in conference play. I really don't know what will happen there.

The Big XII is about as confusing a conference as I've ever seen. Other than Texas and Kansas, does anyone in that conference want to go to The Big Dance? Cause they sure aren't playing like it.

UofL and G-town are going to have one hell of a rematch in DC for tops in the Big East. I'm looking forward to watching that one. I'm betting Pitino doesn't wear a white suit for that one...

And my obligatory UK comment in my post... For all the grief we get from the Jim Rome's and Doug Gottlieb's of the world, I'll put my fanbase up against anyone. In the hours following a heartbreaking road loss in Knoxville, fans of the overmatched and banged up Wildcats sponaneously organized an effort to meet the team when it's plane landed in Lexington. In the end, about a hundred fans were there to meet the beat up and exhausted kids. This wasn't a triumphant team returning from a Final Four trip... this was a team that does nothing but scrap and hustle and play their hearts out on every possession and had just lost a late conference game. Its been well documented the negatives of the radical fringe of Kentucky's fans, but its not often you see the public side of a the other group of people who just love to watch their team play hard.

[Garic Snow]

Clemson vs Maryland last night. Was probably a bigger game for Maryland, but in the ACC standings, it was just as important to Clemson to get a W. Separate a little and solidify 3rd in the ACC and a bye in the conference tournament. Queue the typical 'Clemson falls flat on its face' storyline. We get rolled all game long, and with 11:00 to go in the 2nd half we are down by 20 points...and then something happened. Clemson actually remembered it could play basketball, and Maryland decided to do its best Clemson choke impersonation. We went on a 31-11 run to tie the game, and then won it with a 3 with 2 seconds left. I could hardly believe my eyes.

March kicks off with a BANG. Oh it should be a fun few weeks.

[RedEyedGhost]

Holy crap, Clemson came back to win? Wow, congrats! I turned it off pretty early in the 2nd because it looked to be a blow out.

Damn, it's Senior night for the 'Hawks tonight. We're losing a great class this year: Darnell Jackson, Russell Robinson, Sasha Kaun, Roderick Stewart, and Jeremy Case (finally - he's a redshirt senior who is apparently the best three point shooter in the history of the world - in practice - he just can't make them at all during the games). I kind of want to see the senior speeches, but I know DJ's is going to be tough. That poor kid has gone through so much in is four years at KU. Damn, I'm getting choked up thinking about it right now...

Regarding the Big 12 and the tournament: This year is a case of everybody beating each other up - right now we're #2 in conference RPI (it varies between #1-#3). We just have so many good to average teams that when one has a bad night they get completely destroyed (OU losing by 18 @ Nebraska). I still don't think aTm should make it though; Nebraska should get in before them.

It looks like Danny Manning will be left off of ESPN's top 25 College Basketball players of alltime list. Fucking travesty. There's only five spots left, and other notables not yet named include: Russell, Alcindor, Walton, Robertson, and Maravich - I can't see any of these getting the snub. But goddammit neither should Danny.

[S John]

WVU needs a win tonight. Backyard Brawl, round 2.

[davos]

I'm more interested in the 1 and 2 seeds than the bubble teams righht now. the way I see it Memphis is the only team with lock on a 1 seed right now. Texas loosing this past weekend may well have dropped to a 2 seed and opened the door for UCLA, Duke, or even Kansas. UNC has a damned strong case right now but has to play Duke before the regular season is out and is likely to meet them again in the ACC tourney. Duke wins both of those games and they are a 1 seed, with UNC dropping to a 2 seed. Loose both those games and Duke may well fall to a 3 seed. split them and the selection commitee has another massive headache to detangle. Tennessee is also projected by many as a 1 seed but I've not been that impressed with them. They have the strong resume but their failure to hold onto the 1 ranking for more than a week (they are going to drop this week I'm sure though the new polls have not come out as of the time of this post) does not suggest to me they are a quality 1 seed. Personally I think UCLA is a better team than either Texas or Tennessee and if manage to win out should get a 1 seed bid as the best team in perhaps the most competative conference in the country.

the 2's get muddier still with the possilbity of falling 1 seeds displacing teams teams that might have a shot. Stanford has a good case. Kansas as well if they don't manage to climb into a 1 seed. the winner of the ACC will likely get a 1 and the 2nd place team a 2 though, as I mentioned previusly, I could see Duke dropping to a 3 seed if they loose to UNC at the end of the regular season and fail to win the ACC tournament. I personal think Texas will end up a 2. Then you have to consider Wisconsin who could win outright or gain a share of the big 10 title and if they do well or even win the big 10 tourney would have one hell of a case for a 2 seed. You still have a very good Indiana team lurking behind them though. Purdue is not going to get a 2 seed but after sweeping wisconsin during the regular season may well be in position to spoil Wisconsin's bid to rise about a 3. we also have to look at the Big East, which is in my mind about the equal of the pac-10 in terms of being a competative league. yet its top teams have beaten each-other around badly and this may hold down their seedings. Georgetown may have a case for a 2 seed but Louisville, while having a weaker overall record, is neck and neck with them in the conference and if they manage to to take out the Hoyas may be able to get consideration. and we are still stuck with how to work Xavier into this mix. I see at least 12 teams that have 1 and 2 seed resumes to date and only 8 spots. While the next two weeks could clear things up considerably it could also see the waters become even murkier if we don't see conclusive results.

[Rhom]

REG in the other thread, I linked a post to a Louisville Courier Journal article by Rick Bozich talking about the travesty that is the "Greatest of All Time" list that ESPN has put together. His beef is primarily that it is heavily weighted with the legendary east coast bias out of Bristol.

One example that he gives that shouldn't be on the list is Tim Duncan. He argues that Duncan was an above average college player who's legend has increased with his success in the pros. I would certainly agree with that. He was an outstanding college player, but not one that I would put in the realm of 25 greatest of all time. I would definitely take your example of Danny Manning over him.

[Old Zog]

To continue the discussion on Arizona from the other thread, I think they may be one of the most intriguing bubble discussions I've ever seen. They have an RPI of 22 and a strength of schedule that is tops in the nation... but they've only got 16 wins as of right now and are a serious threat to have a losing record in conference play. I really don't know what will happen there.

I think for Arizona it all comes down to Saturday's game at Oregon. (We can safely assume they'll beat Oregon State on Thursday.) If they lose that, they fall below the Ducks to 7th place in the Pac-10. I don't think Arizona has a signature win that would jump them into the tourney from that spot. Unless they make some serious noise in the conference tournament, of course.

I'm looking forward to Stanford/UCLA this week. At the beginning of the season, I figured we'd be on the bubble at this point of the season. I never thought we'd be challenging for the conference title.

[BLU-RAY]

Have Oregon State won a conference game yet? What a bad year to be a poor team in the PAC-10.

Yeah, I'm looking forward to the UCLA game, myself; but I have to say, I figured we'd probably be a 4-6 seed at the start of the year. I figured our guards were as good as they were last year, and the Lopez twins would be better.

[Celtigo]

Have Oregon State won a conference game yet? What a bad year to be a poor team in the PAC-10.

Yeah, I'm looking forward to the UCLA game, myself; but I have to say, I figured we'd probably be a 4-6 seed at the start of the year. I figured our guards were as good as they were last year, and the Lopez twins would be better.

On pace to complete the magical 0-19 season. I don't really feel sorry for the Beavs with their solid run in football and back to back college world series titles. I think Stanfurd has a good a shot as any at a 2 seed. if they beat UCLA or win the tourney and things break the right way they could even be a one seed.

Potentially good game tonight with Texas Tech and KU. Must win for the red raiders and with the UT victory theres a chance they could be getting hot at the right time.

[Young Wolf]

To continue the discussion on Arizona from the other thread, I think they may be one of the most intriguing bubble discussions I've ever seen. They have an RPI of 22 and a strength of schedule that is tops in the nation... but they've only got 16 wins as of right now and are a serious threat to have a losing record in conference play. I really don't know what will happen there.

This team is really, really frustrating. I've never seen another Zona team lose so many close games that they could have pulled off...and I think if Lute was there, would have pulled off.

The 23 year streak of consecutive NCAA Tournament trips is in serious jeopardy, and it will be a very sad day in the Dub household if they dont go.

Im just praying Lute decides to come back next year, and if not...they find a big name coach to continue the legacy in Tucson. I dont think O'Neill is cutting it.

YW

[S John]

Ah Pitt, how I love to watch you lose.

As long as WVU doesnt lay an egg at St. John's, that'll make 11 wins in the Big East. I think that should be enough to get into the tournament. If Alexander has another 32 point game we shouldn't have too much to worry about.

[RedEyedGhost]

Wow. We might have played our best game of the season tonight. I actually feel bad for Texas Tech. All 15 of our players scored, six in double figures. Our little used McD's AA Cole Aldrich had a double-double. I can't wait until next year when he's not jammed behind Arthur, Jackson, and Kaun, but damn I can't believe this season is almost over. This senior class has had more ups and downs, ins and outs than any that I can remember. I'm sad to see them go.

WVU needs a win tonight. Backyard Brawl, round 2.

Congrats on the big win tonight!

I'm more interested in the 1 and 2 seeds than the bubble teams righht now.

Yeah, but it more fun thinking about the very last teams in or out. Although during our game tonight ESPN had a "blind resume" between to very even teams. The teams ended up being Florida and Baylor. Is it just me or are both of these teams virtual locks at this point? Stupid ESPN.

Digger had a pretty coherent segment on Sportscenter tonight breaking down his #1's and #2's. He said Memphis, UCLA, UNC, and KU are the #1's at this point, and the #2's are Tenn, Texas, Duke, and Stanford. With some play between the seeds based on the remaining games. The only other team I could see sneaking in as a #2 is Georgetown. I think Wisconsin and Xavier are on the outside and not really all that close to making it to a #2 seed because of the strength (or lack of) of their conferences.

REG in the other thread, I linked a post to a Louisville Courier Journal article by Rick Bozich talking about the travesty that is the "Greatest of All Time" list that ESPN has put together. His beef is primarily that it is heavily weighted with the legendary east coast bias out of Bristol.

One example that he gives that shouldn't be on the list is Tim Duncan. He argues that Duncan was an above average college player who's legend has increased with his success in the pros. I would certainly agree with that. He was an outstanding college player, but not one that I would put in the realm of 25 greatest of all time. I would definitely take your example of Danny Manning over him.

I saw that, and it was right. The list is total BS, but it gets people talking and that's what ESPN wants. I think I can say this without too much bias; Danny Manning is one of the top 15 college basketball players of all time.

That is a big game for Arizona and Oregon. Oregon is already on the outside looking in but they have to win both home games against the two U of A schools to have a shot. And even then they probably need to win game in the tourney. Lose to either U of A or ASU and we then have no chance short of winning the whole Pac-10 tournament.

(we have historically done very well in the Pac-10 tourney. Won it as a 5 seed and as a 3 seed, and two years ago, we won our first two as an 8 or 9 seed and lost in OT in the semis)

I think the winner of this game goes to the NCAAs, and the loser... NIT.

This team is really, really frustrating. I've never seen another Zona team lose so many close games that they could have pulled off...and I think if Lute was there, would have pulled off.

The 23 year streak of consecutive NCAA Tournament trips is in serious jeopardy, and it will be a very sad day in the Dub household if they dont go.

Im just praying Lute decides to come back next year, and if not...they find a big name coach to continue the legacy in Tucson. I dont think O'Neill is cutting it.

YW

Arizona would have been a completely different team if Lute were there. The isn't Kevin O'Neill's though, he was put into a no-win situation one week before the season began. AZ has unbelievable talent, but this season has just been too much for the players. What do you think the chances are that Buddinger and/or Bayless come back? I'm thinking both are gone.

[Celtigo]

Florida's RPI currently sits a 62 with games left against Tennessee and Florida. The problem with UF is they've beaten up the deaf and blind of the NCAA, but outside of two home victories against Vandy and kentucky (ot) theres nothing remotely impressive. They really need a win against Tennessee before I'd feel comfortable putting them as a lock.

Baylor is definitley in. With the bubble as messy as it is this year, we could have some crazy upsets or the top 16 seeds could waltz into the third round. Should be interesting.

[RedEyedGhost]

Florida's RPI currently sits a 62 with games left against Tennessee and Florida. The problem with UF is they've beaten up the deaf and blind of the NCAA, but outside of two home victories against Vandy and kentucky (ot) theres nothing remotely impressive. They really need a win against Tennessee before I'd feel comfortable putting them as a lock.

Baylor is definitley in. With the bubble as messy as it is this year, we could have some crazy upsets or the top 16 seeds could waltz into the third round. Should be interesting.

Florida could have an RPI of 102, and they'd still get in with 21 wins and the returning champs factor. A returning champ has to have an absolutely abysmal year (or be anally assaulted by the NCAA - I'm not bitter, really) to not make the tourney the following year.

[RedEyedGhost]

Wanted to add a couple of quotes I saw on phog.net.

The first is from poster BigRed04 - brother of our 7' redheaded walkon Matt Kleinman.

I was talking with my brother last night and he mentioned that during the game Danny was discussing with the refs about the calls Beasley was getting. I don't know how long it had been going on, but at some point the ref turned to Danny and said "Danny, he's getting the same calls you were getting 20 years ago." Danny replied that it was BS back then too.

Matt said that the whole team was cracking up with Danny's response.

That has to be the best comeback by a referee, ever.

The next quote makes me wonder if Pat Knight is really Bobby's son:

I felt like someone hung a meat necklace on me and threw me in a den of lions.

He's brutally honest like Bobby, but he's soooooo much cooler doing it. I like this guy quite a bit. I'm hoping Texas Tech doesn't screw him over.

Oh yeah, and I don't think I mentioned it but this guy IS BACK!! He's had trouble coming back from a stress fracture in his foot, and then an injured knee, but he has been on fire these past two games. Even though he's a "bench player" (he would start on all but maybe two other teams in the NCAA) he may be our most important player. When he's hot, we look unbeatable.

[Rhom]

REG... I want you to know I'll be pulling for Kansas in the NCAA tourney. Mainly because I don't want UCLA getting too far ahead of Kentucky in titles and I don't want Carolina and Duke combined to have more than my boys.

That was a heckuva performance they put on last night. Texas Tech is no slouch of a team either.

If Kentucky wins at South Carolina and Florida doesn't totally lay an egg at Tennessee, there seems to be some talk that the game at Rupp could be a virtual "play in" game for the NCAA tourney. Of course if the Cats miss out, I can almost guarantee a Minnesota vs Kentucky match-up in the NIT. You just know the scheduling guru's will put that up there.

I'd say the assessment of Zona vs Oregon for a spot in the tourney could be accurate. Or of course, Zona could lose out in the regular season and then blow everyone out on their way to the Pac 10 tourney title... they seem to be that kind of team.

[aeu]

I'm looking forward to Stanford/UCLA this week. At the beginning of the season, I figured we'd be on the bubble at this point of the season. I never thought we'd be challenging for the conference title.

I'm anxiously waiting for that as well. I have a full day of inteviews on Thursday, then I'm gonna drag myself in front of the TV to catch this one. Should be a great game.

[chionophile]

Badgers are Big Ten Champs! Hell yeah!

[Rhom]

Badgers are Big Ten Champs! Hell yeah!

Probably one of the best coaching jobs of the year. For all the flack that the Big 10 gets for being one of the weaker "power conferences" they had some great coaching this year. Purdue, Wisconsin, and Minnesota all out-performed where they "should" have been.

[Rhom]

If I had to pick a favorite right now, I'd go with UCLA. I like Kansas and would like them to do well, but obviously history is not on their side. Ditto to North Carolina and Roy; except I don't like them. The lack of an inside presence will kill Duke and free throws will kill Memphis at some point.

If you look at the trend over the last several years, most champions have a "build up" period where they almost get to the top before actually winning it. Kentucky in the mid-90's; Michigan State in the late 90's; Maryland in the early 2000's; etc. UCLA fits in that mold.