HBO's Adaption of A Song of Ice and Fire

[Anatole Kuragin]

No, it should be lemoncakes!

Either way, we should recruit all of the people who campaigned for the return of Jericho.

[Insert Edit]

In that case they should film it near where I live. Let's see what we have within half an hours driving: Plesse, Hanstein , Ludwigstein, Krukenburg, Hardenberg, Sababurg - ok, some of them are ruins, but if you take shots at the right angles, they look spectacular still.

Let me come and stay for a couple of weeks, and I'll hook you up with skiing here in Western Canada...

[LugaJetboyGirl]

No, it should be lemoncakes!

No, we should send them hot pies!

(Somebody had to say it.)

[Gabriele]

Let me come and stay for a couple of weeks, and I'll hook you up with skiing here in Western Canada...

Good idea. I haven't seen any snow this winter, and I love snow.

[GoGoHBOSeries]

I have posted pretty extensivly on the other boards for several months now. I have a fading optimism about the project and think HBO would be fools not to give it at least a pilot.

On the cost issue: A common observation I have noticed is the cost and how that effects the life of a show. People have mentioned Deadwood as being cancelled due to money. I think this is questionable at the very least. Money issues can often be a convenient and readily accepted explanation for the death of a show. But in reality there are numerous factors... and in this case I think it had much to do with Milch himself. Read some of his interviews and the guy seems a little nuts, plus his interest in Deadwood was waning. The network is about to give him a shot at a third series, so they seem very very interested in keeping him. I think theres a little more to the story than just the cost of putting horses on the screen in this case.

With Rome, it was a coproduction with the BBC, and the BBC backed out. So youre talking about suddenly doubling the cost, plus adding any new renegotiated contract money. Plus one of the reasons it was so expensive was that it was filmed in Rome, probably the most expensive cities in the entire world to film in.

ASOIAF will be expensive. But HBO has the money and the track record for doing big budget series. Fantasy is a major seller in the DVD market - plus HBO doesn't do business the way other networks do. It is subscriber based, thus they can escape normal convention.

The biggest hurdle I see is really putting the correct team together. Were going to need an amazing director, or team of directors who can see a common vision. Were going to need writers who can tame GOT into 12 or 13 digestable episodes. Were going to need a cast that is highly accomplished and for some of them, possibly dedicated to being in the series all the way to the end. It Means GRRM is going to have to compromise with the writers of the television series. And they have to figure out all of the technical things, such as special effects, props, sets and myriad of vissual elements in the series. This is a huge task. And HBO can throw the money at it. But someone at the end of the day has to make it happen.

[Stark Raving Mad Wolf]

I get the feeling that if it does get made by HBO, that it may be only for three seasons - adapting the first three books. This means it would be a Stark Vs Lannister type deal with no Dany. Season 3 would be the epic conclusion with the battle at the wall, the red wedding, the demise of joffrey and Viper/Mountain battle.

Offcourse, id rather see all the books adapted and Dany feature prominently - but thats more of a long shot.

Im sure 13 episodes per book will be more than enough. Dont forget Sopranos had 12 episodes a year and alot was packed into each season. (Sopranos is alot like AICN with all the intrigue and battles between families)

BTW - we really need to get our hands on the pilot script!!!! Maybe we can write to the likes of AICN and CHUD (Devon did read ASOIAF).

[Insert Edit]

I have posted pretty extensivly on the other boards for several months now. I have a fading optimism about the project and think HBO would be fools not to give it at least a pilot.

On the cost issue: A common observation I have noticed is the cost and how that effects the life of a show. People have mentioned Deadwood as being cancelled due to money. I think this is questionable at the very least. Money issues can often be a convenient and readily accepted explanation for the death of a show. But in reality there are numerous factors... and in this case I think it had much to do with Milch himself. Read some of his interviews and the guy seems a little nuts, plus his interest in Deadwood was waning. The network is about to give him a shot at a third series, so they seem very very interested in keeping him. I think theres a little more to the story than just the cost of putting horses on the screen in this case.

With Rome, it was a coproduction with the BBC, and the BBC backed out. So youre talking about suddenly doubling the cost, plus adding any new renegotiated contract money. Plus one of the reasons it was so expensive was that it was filmed in Rome, probably the most expensive cities in the entire world to film in.

ASOIAF will be expensive. But HBO has the money and the track record for doing big budget series. Fantasy is a major seller in the DVD market - plus HBO doesn't do business the way other networks do. It is subscriber based, thus they can escape normal convention.

The biggest hurdle I see is really putting the correct team together. Were going to need an amazing director, or team of directors who can see a common vision. Were going to need writers who can tame GOT into 12 or 13 digestable episodes. Were going to need a cast that is highly accomplished and for some of them, possibly dedicated to being in the series all the way to the end. It Means GRRM is going to have to compromise with the writers of the television series. And they have to figure out all of the technical things, such as special effects, props, sets and myriad of vissual elements in the series. This is a huge task. And HBO can throw the money at it. But someone at the end of the day has to make it happen.

My doubts, where cost is concerned has absolutely nothing to do with the show's longevity. It's about the show getting green-lighted in the first place. Shows get 'bought' on paper all the time. For every show that makes it to air, there's ten plus that the network considers. The writer(s) do a pilot script. The write the show 'bible.' They do character treatments. They write outlines of future show ideas. The executive producer looks at a stack of these on his/her desk, and picks a FEW to champion. Then they start going to networks to sell it. They may go to an event like the Banff TV festival http://www.banff2008.com/ to hit a bunch of broadcasters in one go.

These are people with proven track records. They've had successful TV shows. But even then, only a percentage of the shows they pitch will ever make it to the screen. The show can be killed at any stage. Pre-production - right up to the pilot already being in the can.

I have a good friend who has a show in production limbo. It has an executive producer attached. It's an edgy comedy. He used to wait by the phone, but he's now into his second year of being patient. Lighting may strike tomorrow - or more likely the show will never see TV. It's out of his hands though. He's signed a contract with the exec producer (that's the way it works).

Now, of course, there's a lot of different reasons that shows don't get green-lighted. Cost is only one of them. But it's always the 800 lb elephant in the room. Always. Two scripts of the same basic quality, two capable exec producers, the CHEAPEST gets the green light. These guys are in it to make money, HBO included. HBO wouldn't have given the go-ahead to Rome without BBC and the Italian network sharing the cost. As soon as the BBC bailed, they killed the show. Money talks.

[Knight of Redemption]

You punk. Who the fuck let you in here?!

How could you! first I have to suffer the indignity of being labelled a commoner, and then I get flamed by a shrimp where are the moderators?.......oh

[Gabriele]

Were going to need a cast that is highly accomplished and for some of them, possibly dedicated to being in the series all the way to the end.

I can see the contracts here:

You're contracted to play the role of XY in the HBO series A Song of Ice and Fire for the duration of, either

a) the end of the series,

until HBO decides to cease production, or

c) Mr. Martin kills XY.

[dragonslayer]

The way I see it is that it's going to be a book per season, although IIRC, aGoT to aFfC is about 2 years in book time which would be 5 years in real life. Seeing as so much of the cast are children, it'd be pretty hard to pull off.

All I can say is

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaallllllllllllllllllllt

[Gabriele]

In that case they should film it near where I live. Let's see what we have within half an hours driving: Plesse, Hanstein , Ludwigstein, Krukenburg, Hardenberg, Sababurg - ok, some of them are ruins, but if you take shots at the right angles, they look spectacular still.

Sorry for getting off-topic, but since some people are interested in history, here's a brand new post about the Plesse, and here a bit info about the Hanstein, both with more photos.

OK back to the HBO series. I wonder how they'll solve the problem of the armour. It takes training to move wearing some of that stuff; no fun for the actors. And I don't think they'll have the time for all that extra training the LOTR actors had to go through.

[Poobah]

I get the feeling that if it does get made by HBO, that it may be only for three seasons - adapting the first three books. This means it would be a Stark Vs Lannister type deal with no Dany. Season 3 would be the epic conclusion with the battle at the wall, the red wedding, the demise of joffrey and Viper/Mountain battle.

Offcourse, id rather see all the books adapted and Dany feature prominently - but thats more of a long shot.

Im sure 13 episodes per book will be more than enough. Dont forget Sopranos had 12 episodes a year and alot was packed into each season. (Sopranos is alot like AICN with all the intrigue and battles between families)

BTW - we really need to get our hands on the pilot script!!!! Maybe we can write to the likes of AICN and CHUD (Devon did read ASOIAF).

Whats an AICN and a CHUD too for that matter. MMA <- Many Meaningless Acronyms

On topic, while I would love to see an ASOIAF (an acronym, is that hypocritical?) TV series, my main worry is that like so many other cases of a book or series of books being adapted for TV or Film, there'll be so much lost that while it'll be perfectly watchable for ASOIAF virgins, it'll be painful for those of us aquainted with the books. However, I hold onto hope, HBO has come out with some very good TV series.

-Poobs

[cronos619]

Whats an AICN and a CHUD too for that matter. MMA <- Many Meaningless Acronyms

On topic, while I would love to see an ASOIAF (an acronym, is that hypocritical?) TV series, my main worry is that like so many other cases of a book or series of books being adapted for TV or Film, there'll be so much lost that while it'll be perfectly watchable for ASOIAF virgins, it'll be painful for those of us aquainted with the books. However, I hold onto hope, HBO has come out with some very good TV series.

-Poobs

1) AICN = Aint It Cool News http://www.aintitcool.com

2) CHUD = Cinematic Happenings Under Development http://chud.com

3) although there might be quite a bit lost in translation, there would a whole new crop of people interested in the story, and possibly quite a few who go out and buy the books. If nothing else this will put more money in GRRM's pockets. I don't know about you, but I'm all for an artist getting as much money as possible for his works.

[Knight of Redemption]

Movie armour is lightweight and made of fibre glass or plastic, mail is often knitted and sprayed silver (shudder) more often these days rubber and aluminium/aluminum links. The training is more about looking like you know how to use a weapon like a sword. To do this for film only takes a few weeks and can be done during pre production.

[Gabriele]

Movie armour is lightweight and made of fibre glass or plastic, mail is often knitted and sprayed silver (shudder) more often these days rubber and aluminium/aluminum links. The training is more about looking like you know how to use a weapon like a sword. To do this for film only takes a few weeks and can be done during pre production.

Thanks. I know they used aluminium rings in LOTR, but some actors (Bernard Hill who played Theoden. fe.) said the armour was still very heavy.

I hope the knitting days are over, that stuff looks so like the Ivanhoe movie from the 60ies.

[Cuellar]

While the probability of ANY show going into production is pretty slim, I think this project has a number of key things going for it:

1) GRRM/Parris have a long history in TV, and are use to dealing with TV types

2) GRRM actually wrote TV scripts, so he actually can help plan the transition from book to script much better than most other authors

3) HBO has a history of mega projects, and likes "R" rated shows, which ASOIF lends itself to, as opposed to King Aurther banging prostitutes

4) Fantasy is fairly popular right now, especially considering they have Tudors going as well

Now, I'm no TV exec, but I'd guess there are a few things they can do to really reduce the costs:

Axe main characters. That seems a no brainer, but there are a couple main THEMES in ASOIF that probably need to be followed. I'd guess Tyrion, Ned, and maybe 2 minor Stark kids really need to be followed (Arya and Bran and Sansa), everyone else can be axed. In the first half of the first season, they really just need Tyrion and Ned. Once Ned dies, they can move to using the kids and Catelyn a little more heavily. Plus they don't even really NEED points of view... they could skip to showing Hodor randomly if they feel like it.

Dany has to go. She really has no relevance to the main events of the first 2 books. The added cost of having 2 major settings, means it will be much harder to do. Although you easily could shoot it in the Mojave, which means a blurp of a shooting could work showing her being married.

What made LOTR cheap was that they shot everything at once. ASOIF really lends itself to shooting multiple things at once, especially ALL of the winterfel stuff, Kings Landing, etc. If they pick a castle to shoot at, and shoot the first season, they probably need to shoot 2-3 seasons together. That works REALLY well if they decide to axe Dany out of Season 1, and just shoot her in 2/3 together, and insert her WHOLE story line up until today into the last couple of books.

A lot of the battles need to be CGI'd. It would be nearly impossible to shoot some of the battles, not to mention a lot of the "action" is localized to small groups and marching. In fact, a lot of the stuff is staged in the same areas over and over.

[Knight of Redemption]

Then I declare Bernard to be a wendy and a whoos, he wants to try the real thing, now thats heavy. (in case anyone is wondering I do authentic middle ages combat displays for a living and have been in one or two films and TV productions) and boy would I love to be in ASOIAF, it would sure make up for some of the crap I've been in.

[Myrddin]

Dany has to go.

Maybe they can have a miniseries devoted to her before the fifth (or fourth if they combine Feast and Dance) season comes out?

Kind of like how BSG: Razor was a seperate release.

Actually, that's not a bad idea... By then they'll have figured out how to really do this show at a decent cost and viewers won't be sitting there wondering when will the two story lines will intersect.

[Jon Targaryen]

I like the idea of waiting until season 2 to put Dany in. She doesn't have many chapters in ACOK.

[Gabriele]

Then I declare Bernard to be a wendy and a whoos, he wants to try the real thing, now thats heavy. (in case anyone is wondering I do authentic middle ages combat displays for a living and have been in one or two films and TV productions) and boy would I love to be in ASOIAF, it would sure make up for some of the crap I've been in.

I suppose all those layers add up, and a lot of it was leather that would get heaver when soaked in rain. But yes, he should try a real mail shirt.

One of the reasons the early Imperial Roman army changed from mail to lorica segmentata was the weight, the metal plates are a bit less heavy though the whole thing looks heavier than mail. But in the 4th century AD the mail shirt was back so it must have had some advantages.

I wish I had the money for a segmentata outfit, though.