Boxeo- The BIG one! 2nd big fight of the year; Pac-man v. Hatton, reactions!

[Horus Ex Machina]

The skill level and speed of these two was staggering. The only thing that seemed certain was that if the fight went 12, it would be a split decision. And it turned out to be true.

Pacquiao wowed me with his balance, and ability to land punches from awkward angles. It seemed that anytime Marquez adjusted to Pacquiao, Paquiao would adjust to Marquez and back and forth. Marquez was a warrior, that cut that opened in the last few rounds was nasty, yet he put up some of his best rounds in the last part of the fight. Plus getting up and surviving such a stunning knockdown was nothing but heart. Pacquiao had to survive a nasty cut and swelling in that same eye.

This fight, in my mind, trumped the Castillo v Corrales fights of a few back because the pace and movement seemed superior to that fight. Instead of duking it out in the center of the ring it seemed to move from corner to corner with fluidity and ease.

Excellent fight, and yet another example of how Top Rank and Golden Boy Promotions have [i]more than[/i] saved boxing in my mind. Paul Williams also KO'd Quinatana in the first round to avenge his only loss.

[Mathis]

Pacquiao got lucky IMO. You can never write off the Pac-man but I think he would have lost were it not for Marquez's cut which came about from a clash of heads. Marquez continued to fight well after he got cut but you could see he was always wiping at it. It must have made a big difference, he could barely see.

Excellent fight, I was surprised at Pacquiao's style. He seems to have changed it, he was actually trying to jab in the opening rounds. :stunned:

Marquez remains a king of counter punching.

I love Mexican fighters. They seem happy to beat the hell outa the opponent and take a beating at the same time. Helps that they are generally a bit smaller. I know Marquez isn't the classic example of a Mexican brawler but I've seen him fight twice and both times its been awesome.

In recent years we've had Corrales/Castillo, Barrera/Morales, Vasquez/Marquez and all those fights between Pacquiao and Mexican opposition. Some of the best fights I've ever seen.

[Young Wolf]

Will add my opinion after watching the HBO replay next weekend, but I can say the Marquez vs Vasquez fight was incredible.

ETA: Also, its Juan Manuel Marquez. I have no fucking clue who Jose is...though there probably is a Jose Manuel Marquez out there, just he didnt fight Manny Pacquiao this weekend. :P

YW

[Paladin of Ice]

I forgot about this one, will be catching the HBO rebroadcast. (I went to youtube to see if the fight was posted there, but some vids of it had been removed, and the others were pretty bad quality).

[quote]Excellent fight, I was surprised at Pacquiao's style. He seems to have changed it, he was actually trying to jab in the opening rounds. :stunned:[/quote]

I don't follow boxing as much as I used to, but ever since his loss in the first Morales fight Pacqiaou seems to have put a lot of effort into refining himself, mostly in using his right more and being less predictable. The results haven't always been perfect, but he has improved greatly because of it.

Physically, Pac is a complete package: very fast, very strong, tough. It's being predictable, (over-reliance on the left, virtually all punches are straight shots, constant headhunting), and in preferring one-note, constant aggression over technique that was his weakness. (Although few fighters could overcome his physical gifts to take advantage of that).

But give him credit, after he lost to Morales, (and had the draw with Marquez in their first fight) they correctly identified these problems and went to work to fix it.

[EHK for Darwin]

Also waiting on the replay. Though it'll have to work to top Vasquez/Marquez.

[Horus Ex Machina]

[quote name='YDub' post='1275456' date='Mar 16 2008, 19.55']ETA: Also, its Juan Manuel Marquez. I have no fucking clue who Jose is...though there probably is a Jose Manuel Marquez out there, just he didnt fight Manny Pacquiao this weekend. :P

YW[/quote]It's called a typo. You want a medal?:smoking:

...but seriously, good looking out! :thumbsup:


[quote name='Paladin of Ice' post='1275717' date='Mar 17 2008, 00.22']I forgot about this one, will be catching the HBO rebroadcast. (I went to youtube to see if the fight was posted there, but some vids of it had been removed, and the others were pretty bad quality).[/quote]
Try Dailymotion.com. There's a strong chance that it might be there.

[dits]

I wouldn't go so far as saying as this fight was better than Corrales-Castillo coz that is the untouchable fight of the decade. Fight of the year maybe but it already has staunch competition from the 3rd fight of the legendary Vasquez-Marquez trilogy.

Having said that, what an amazing see-saw battle. Just when you think one fighter was dominating the fight, the other digs deep and turns the tables. Pacquiao showed how powerful he was when he dropped Marquez in the 3rd, a very vital development as it turned out as without it Marquez would've won. What heart by Marquez by getting up and just performing a counterpunching clinic in the next rounds. Props to Manny though for getting the win.

Very close fight. I predicted Manny to KO JMM in the 9th. Scored it 114-113 in favor of Marquez though several rounds I felt could have gone either way.

[Paladin of Ice]

[quote name='Horus-CK1' post='1275748' date='Mar 17 2008, 02.16']It's called a typo. You want a medal?:smoking:

...but seriously, good looking out! :thumbsup:



Try Dailymotion.com. There's a strong chance that it might be there.[/quote]

Thanks for the recommendation, I tried looking for it at the time but couldn't find it. Still appreciated. :)

Okay, watched the HBO rebroadcast, and although it may not be quite fight of the year, it was very interesting... the difference between Marquez' very controlled, very good tactical and technical skills versus the energy, aggression and punching power of Pacquiao.

Observations: As I said earlier in the thread, Pac has improved a lot, and I was surprised by how much better his defense was in this fight, as he was slipping, ducking, and catching a lot of punches with his forearms and elbows that would have been smacking him flush in the past. He was also recovering and keeping his position better after throwing punches. He's still entirely too reliant on long straight punches, as there were a lot of times when ti seemed that more hooks or uppercuts would have let him hit Marquez better with the way that Marquez was moving, (especially when Marquez would slip under a straight punch, more uppercuts would have been devastating but Manny rarely threw them).

Marquez is a superb counterpuncher, perhaps one of the better ones I've gotten a chance to see in a fight in the past few years, and his ring generalship, the way he positions himself and can keep people at just the right range is excellent. He may need to improve his dodging somewhat, because an awful lot of the time he was going straight back with his head up. He also an astonishing job of stifling Manny's offense in rounds 5 through the start of 7, I could barely believe my eyes.

Fight Notes: My scoring of the fight was virtually identical to the Lederman card there was only one exception, a round he scored for Marquez that I scored a draw because Manny was catching most of the punches on his arms had landed a couple of decent shots early in the round. With the exception of round 2, the first four pretty much belonged to Manny, but Marquez did a fantastic job stifling Manny and preventing him from mounting any offense or rhythm starting in the end of the 4th or so and going through the early 7th.

The change of pace after the headbutt in the 7th was astonishing. Perhaps Marquez lost his cool a bit and felt pressured, but even though he probably won the 7th he let Pacquiao back into the fight and he got clocked a couple of times in that round. 8 was a slaughter in favor of Marquez, because of the cut he opened up on Pacquiao's eye. But Pacquiao's cutman did a great job and Manny stormed back in rounds 9 and 10. At the end of the 10th all the exhaustion seem to hit Pacquiao at once and he couldn't bring the same effort into the 11th and 12th. Had this fight been any longer than 12 Pac might have been in trouble, but as it was he deserved the victory, although an observation one HBO people made afterwards was that while Marquez had been outpointed, he hadn't been beaten was very true.

[dits]

Looks like this fight got more competition for Fight of the Year. Watched the Katsidis-Casamayor fight earlier and it was awesome. Casamayor wins by KO referee stoppage in the 10th when it looked like Katsidis had it in the bag.

Also, can we rename this the boxing thread just to get better mileage.

[EHK for Darwin]

I'm also in favor of a generic boxing thread name-change. Maybe put the big upcoming fight under it much like they do with the MMA thread. I've got the fights Tivoed and about to fall asleep to one of them. I'll probably watch both at some point tomorrow.

[dits]

Working under the assumption that this will be the generic boxing thread, what's the next big fight? Is it Calzaghe-Hopkins? If so, who's everybody's pick?

[EHK for Darwin]

Checking the schedule and Calzaghe-Hopkins is the only legitimately big fight I see. I'm all for that. Leading up to that we've got a bunch of mid to upper tier competition (but not elite). HBO and Showtime both have some fights that might be interesting the week before, but they're certainly not 'huge' by any stretch. (Though Cotto is awesome and I'm a big fan of Gomez...even though he's gonna get his ass ripped apart)

So looks like we've got nearly a month til the next big fight. Coupled rounds into Marquez/Pac, got to finish it later. But Casamayor/Katsidis was good fun. The 'young turk' seemed to have the energy and the power to take over the fight, hitting with stiff shots and bludgeoning Casamayor by attrition. But he kept getting over eager, sloppy, and walked right into those lefts. Great example of why all out aggression isn't necessarily a good thing. It was a good fight, but I certainly wouldn't call it Fight of the Year quality. I thought Vasquez/Marquez and Pavlik/Taylor were both better fights. And I'll let you know on Manny/Marquez in a few hours.

[Young Wolf]

The first fight was better, imo. It was still a good fight, but the pace of the first one was much more insane. Fight could have gone either way (again), and they'll probably cash in on a 3rd fight.

The Casamayor/Katsidis fight was ok. That left hook to win that knocked Katsidis down in that last round was a thing of beauty.

I noticed one thing yesterday...that guy De La Hoya is fighting, Forbes, I could be wrong but I swear he was on The Contender or whatever that boxing show was couple years back. Im going to have to go double check it now.

Regarding Calzaghe/Hopkins: Hell I dont know. Im going to root for Hopkins, hope for a great fight, and wont be upset if Calzaghe takes it to Bernard, after all Hopkins is about 76 years old. :P

YW

[lessthanluke]

Yeh Steve Forbes was in the contender. Didn't win though.

Calzaghe is gonna do the business against Hopkins, I'm very confident. Don't know why anyone would want to root for Hopkins even if your American, the mans an idiot.

Also Clinton Woods is fighting Antonio Tarver a week before Calzaghe/Hopkins. Hope woods can win that.

[Young Wolf]

[quote name='LessThanLuke' post='1285730' date='Mar 23 2008, 19.18']Calzaghe is gonna do the business against Hopkins, I'm very confident. Don't know why anyone would want to root for Hopkins even if your American, the mans an idiot.[/quote]

Most boxers are idiots, he's just a bit more entertaining of one than some. Besides, he's 'Merican. :P

[lessthanluke]

[quote name='YDub' post='1285734' date='Mar 24 2008, 00.28']Most boxers are idiots, he's just a bit more entertaining of one than some. Besides, he's 'Merican. :P[/quote]

I guess we have different definitions of entertaining :)

[Mathis]

In other news Gavin Rees took a beating in his first WBA super-lightweight defense aginst Andreas Kotelnik.

Rees just didn't look good. He got hit with a left every time he moved back, he kept his hands down but wasn't quick enough to make it work.

He is trained by Enzo Calzaghe as is Maccarinelli. Macca and Gavin Rees both got shown up in their last fights but Enzo Calzaghe was named trainer of the year by Ring magazine. Hmm..

As for Calzaghe/Hopkins I don't know what to think. Calzaghe has never been in the ring with anyone as good as Hopkins (Eubank was and Kessler is world class although not quite in Hopkins' league) but Hopkins is 43. Also, Calzaghe can throw 100 punches a round. I just hope its a good fight.

EHK why do you call Katsidis the 'young turk'? Isn't he Australian of Greek descent? Any Greek I've ever met would take that as an insult.

ETA: I agree a name change could help the thread. It seems there is a new thread every time a big fight comes around.

[dits]

Can anyone do an analysis of the styles of Calzaghe and Hopkins? I've not really seen that many Hopkins fights and none at all of Calzaghe. And mention some of their more notable fights.

[Mathis]

Calzaghe has good technique. Great movement of feet and a strong chin but his great strength is his hand speed. You will not see a Super-Middleweight (or middleweight for that matter) with faster hands. Hopefully he can take that speed to Light-Heavyweight. Some have said that his handspeed leads to slaps instead of punches. See Jeff Lacy for the answer to that (my point being that 'slaps' aren't necessarily a bad thing).

His most notable fights are wins against Chris Eubank, Jeff Lacy and Mikkel Kessler. Eubank because it brought Calzaghe his first world title in a fight with a (fading) legend, Jeff Lacy in that it brought him an American audience and Mikkel Kessler in that he became the undisputed Super-Middleweight world champion.

Bernard Hopkins doesn't have such an offensive style as Calzaghe but is an excellent technical fighter. Good defense and although he doesn't throw as many punches as Calzaghe when he does they're usually good ones. TBH I've only seen three of his fights (the Golden Boy, Jermain Taylor 2, and Winky plus highlights against Tarver) so you'll probably get a better breakdown from someone else.

He's had some notable fights. He got knocked out by Roy Jones Jr. I think, way back when. He had a victory against Felix Trinidad to become undisputed middleweight champion and then two losses to Jermain Taylor at middleweight. He later moved up to light heavyweight and beat Antonio Tarver who was undisputed champion (and will be fighting Clinton Woods soon, that might be fun). He also beat Winky Wright at light-heavyweight (according to wikipaedia at least, I thought they fought at a catch weight).

ETA: When Hopkins beat against Oscar he TKO'd him. I don't count it among his notable fights because, despite his quality, De La Hoya was fighting way above his best weight. Its a testament to his balls, Oscar will fight anyone but he shouldn't have been there.

[Mathis]

In the spirit of this being an all purpose boxing thread will Mayweather ever fight Cotto (or Mosley for that matter)? He's gonna make a mint at WWE Wrestlemania and against De La Hoya. Plus his huge payouts from beating Hatton and De La Hoya first time round. He's set for life.

I won't dispute that Mayweather is the best pound for pound fighter in the world but is he considered one of the true greats?

If he fought and beat Cotto and Mosley there could be no question. Yeah, he might lose but he would make a lot of money and would prove to the world that he was up for it. He gave Hatton a lesson and Hatton is great fighter, no question, but he isn't a welter-weight and looked out of his depth against Mayweather. Hell, Hatton didn't look good against Collazo even in victory and Castillo just wasn't up for it. Stick to light welter-weight Ricky.