Babylon 5 Rewatch Pt. 2

[Jon AS]

[quote name='Werthead']Obviously this trilogy is a massive dose of expositionary fanwank[/quote]

That would have been my comment. I agree with Shryke, they definitely overdid it with the technomage involvement.

[Shryke]

[quote name='Jon AS' post='1439163' date='Jul 14 2008, 13.48']That would have been my comment. I agree with Shryke, they definitely overdid it with the technomage involvement.[/quote]

The thing is, alot of the ideas in the trilogy are GOOD. (The Techno-mages being sorta-shadow agents for instance. Something which was gonna make Crusades story really cool.)

The first book, in particular, I really enjoyed.

It's not until 2 and 3 that he throws them in there to close plotholes.

[Jon AS]

Hmm, I'm putting together a stash of books to take with me on vacation. Maybe I'll give these tie-ins a try.

(They've got to be better than John Ringo, right?)

[Werthead]

[quote name='Shryke' post='1439137' date='Jul 14 2008, 18.25']Just a quick point, the Techno-mages don't all live on that 1 planet. They are scattered all over the place, since they generally don't play nice together.[/quote]

Ah, this is correct. Soom is, I believe, Galen and Elric's homeworld, and merely the meeting-place for the big technomage gathering that is going on when the shit goes down.

[PhelanArcetus]

[quote name='Jon AS' post='1439195' date='Jul 14 2008, 14.09']Hmm, I'm putting together a stash of books to take with me on vacation. Maybe I'll give these tie-ins a try.

(They've got to be better than John Ringo, right?)[/quote]

Well, Ringo is a fairly fun author. Weber's better unless you really like the infantry emphasis. Light reading, though.

[mandy_k]

Just FYI, this was posted today on the moderated newsgroup:

[quote]One final note re: recent discussions on TMoS and more Lost Tales.

B5:TLT was commissioned at a $2 million budget to, yet one more time,
"test the waters" for B5. We did what we could with that, and that
was that. As we did with Rangers, which also suffered from not having
a lot of money because of concerns about "is there really a B5
audience?" Which is, of course, a foolish question from a studio that
has never really understood what it has in B5.

Of late, there have been more discussions from WB about doing more
DVDs, again at a low cost, or a cable thing, again with minimal
investment.

So for the last few months, I've been giving this whole subject a lot
of quiet thought. And I've come to a conclusion.

B5 as a five year story stands beautifully on its own. If anything
else is to be continued from that story, it should be something that
adds to the legacy of B5, rather than subtracts from it.

As well intentioned as Rangers and TLT were, as enticing as it was to
return to those familiar waters, in the end I think they did more to
subtract from the legacy than add to it. I don't regret having made
them, because I needed to go through that to get to the point where I
am now psychologically, but from where I sit now, I wouldn't make them
again.

So I've let everyone up here know that I'm not interested in doing any
more low-budget DVDs. I'm not interested in doing any low-budget
cable things or small computer games. The only thing I would be
interested in doing regarding Babylon 5 from this point on is a full-
featured, big-budget feature film.

It's that or nothing.

And if it's nothing, I'm totally cool with that because the original
story stands on its own just fine. I'm not lobbying for it, I'm not
asking fans to write in about it (nor should you) because such
campaigns never really have much impact...that's simply the position
I've taken up here. Lord knows I don't lack for other things to do
these days. I'm busier on more prestige projects with terrific people
and great film-makers than at any other time in my career.

At the end of the day, for me, it's not just a matter of getting more
B5. It's a matter of getting more *good* B5 that respects what came
before it and doesn't have to compromise visually or in terms of
action. The original show deserves better than that, the surviving
cast members deserve better than that, and the fans who have supported
it over the years definitely deserve better than that. A lot better.

So I've drawn that line in the sand, and I'm happy living on whichever
side of that line the universe puts me. Just thought you should know,
'cause it's your show too.

jms[/quote]

The complete post is here: [url="http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated/browse_thread/thread/2f006c3b8bf9f53c/3047b5daf18b8524#3047b5daf18b8524"]http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.sf...047b5daf18b8524[/url]

[Jon AS]

[quote name='mandy_k']Just FYI, this was posted today on the moderated newsgroup[/quote]

Thanks for posting that. I fully understand (and agree with) the sentiment expressed there. As Wert's summary shows, even the tie-in novels (which don't suffer from budgetary constraints) don't necessarily add a whole lot to B5 as a whole.

[quote name='PhelanArcetus']Well, Ringo is a fairly fun author. Weber's better unless you really like the infantry emphasis. Light reading, though.[/quote]

True for certain definitions of "fun". From the ad pages at the end of [i]Ghost[/i] I learned that Weber (whom I only know from the threads lampooning his Honor Harrington series here on this board) and Ringo co-wrote a series of SciFi books. Sounds like a match made in heaven. Or hell.

[PhelanArcetus]

Continuing the totally off-topic; they work reasonably well together. For that matter, I enjoy the Honorverse series, even when it gets a little ridiculously technical, and even though it's put (as many series do) too much on one protagonist over the course of the series. The co-authored series wasn't incredible, and in fact I think the final book was notably inferior to the first two (and the second was best), but it was definitely readable and generally entertaining. But light. Very light reading.

[Werthead]

[quote name='Jon AS' post='1439506' date='Jul 14 2008, 21.45']Thanks for posting that. I fully understand (and agree with) the sentiment expressed there. As Wert's summary shows, even the tie-in novels (which don't suffer from budgetary constraints) don't necessarily add a whole lot to B5 as a whole.[/quote]

As I said, I think Peter David's Centauri Prime trilogy is very well-done. Apart from the needless inclusion of the technomages, it adds a lot to Londo's story and makes his arc much more complete and powerful. I strongly recommend those books.

The Technomage ones pass the time but they do add to the mythology of Galen as a Gary Stu, although it is fun seeing him getting slapped down the whole time by Elric and co for his hotheaded ideas, in contrast to his smug superiority in the episodes of [b]Crusade[/b] I saw.

[Gerold Hightower]

[quote]As well intentioned as Rangers and TLT were, as enticing as it was to
return to those familiar waters, in the end I think they did more to
subtract from the legacy than add to it.[/quote]
Very true. As for the tie-in novels. I tried some but didn't find any of them worth reading. Yes, they give you some background info but the writing is all Kevin J. Anderson level.

[Werthead]

[quote name='Gerold Hightower' post='1440425' date='Jul 15 2008, 07.03']Very true. As for the tie-in novels. I tried some but didn't find any of them worth reading. Yes, they give you some background info but the writing is all Kevin J. Anderson level.[/quote]

Yep, the earlier books were pretty bad, mainly because Dell only gave the writers in some cases 3-4 weeks to write each book. Once they went over to Del Rey, the quality improved markedly, and at least you'd heard of the authors they were using (Greg Keyes and Peter David attracted a lot of readers who weren't into [b]B5[/b] beforehand).

[Werthead]

[b]5.22: [i]Sleeping in Light[/i]
[/b]And so it ends. Set 20 years after the end of the Shadow War, 18-odd years after the series ends, this episode is the epilogue to the whole series (although [i]Deconstruction of Falling Stars[/i] gave us a glimpse of some events that came later).

Sheridan is dying, the life-extension that Lorien gave him in [i]Whatever Happened to Mr. Garibaldi?[/i] and [i]Falling Towards Apotheosis[/i] has finally run out. Sheridan and Delenn host a big knees-up on Minbar and Ivanova, Garibaldi, Franklin and Emperor Vir all show up. They chat about old times and salute their fallen comrades: G'Kar, Londo, Lennier and Marcus. In the morning Sheridan slips away to visit Babylon 5 one last time. The station is being shut down, with interstellar trade lanes having moved away from the station and its diplomatic work now being down by the Interstellar Alliance on Minbar. Sheridan has time to remember a few key moments on the station and catch up with Zack, who's come back to say goodbye to the place as well.

Sheridan travels on to Coriana VI, site of the final victory over the Shadows and Vorlons, and there meets Lorien one last time. The ending is ambiguous: maybe Sheridan dies, or maybe he joins with Lorien and journeys beyond the Galactic Rim with him.

Babylon 5 is shut down for the last time and then demolished, with the debris from the explosion burning up in Epsilon III's atmosphere as ships from across the Alliance observe this historic occasion.

As final episodes go, they don't get more reflective and quiet than [i]Sleeping in Light[/i]. No jeopardy or danger, just a moment to reflect on the 109 episodes that led us to this point. It's all pretty effective, though there are a few bum notes: JMS' dialogue goes into cheese overdrive during Sheridan and Delenn's goodbye scenes and it's a bit of a cop-out that we don't get to meet Sheridan and Delenn's son after his build-up since the end of Season 3. And it would have been nice if perhaps a few other of the dead characters had been mentioned as well (I would have thought Ivanova would have mentioned Talia). The total lack of any mention of Sinclair is also a shame. But then, as JMS said at the time, he didn't want to overburden the episode with continuity references and there is something to be said for that.

So that's the end of the rewatch (since I don't have the TV movies on DVD). Very enjoyable, for the most part. Some parts of the series have aged better than others, but there is the sense in [b]Babylon 5[/b] that the creators really tried to do something different to what had come before in science fiction television, although nonetheless building on the foundations provided by [b]Blake's 7[/b], [b]The Twilight Zone[/b] and the original [b]Star Trek[/b]. It is also interesting that its approach to preplanned arc-driven storytelling has never entirely caught on. [b]BSG[/b]'s story arc has been made up as they've gone along, [b]Buffy[/b] and [b]Angel[/b] never planned more than 12-18 months ahead and [b]Lost[/b] may have had a preplanned arc, but it has been diluted by them not knowing how many episodes they have to tell their story. In fact, not until the recent animated series [b]Avatar[/b] was there another pre-planned arc show that actually reached completion (a few others, such as [b]Dark Skies[/b] were begun but were cancelled before they finished).

Having watched [b]DS9 [/b]and [b]B5[/b] back-to-back, it also occurs to me how pointless the competition was between these two shows at the time. They are both excellent SF space operas with their own strengths and weaknesses, and frankly I'm glad we had both of them around.

Next rewatch? Not a few months, and it'll probably be [b]Blake's 7[/b]. It'll be nice to see the original show before Sky One airs its remake and [b]B7[/b] did have something that neither [b]B5[/b] nor [b]DS9[/b] had that makes it quite special: an outrageous guest performance by Brian Blessed. Totally awesome ;)

[Werthead]

Awesome!

The [i]Babylon Project [/i]conversion for [i]Freespace 2[/i] has finally been finished (after almost nine years in development). And it doesn't need FS2 to work, you can just download and play. [url="http://babylon.hard-light.net/official_downloads.php"]Totally sweet![/url]

[Jon AS]

[quote name='Werthead']The [i]Babylon Project [/i]conversion for [i]Freespace 2[/i] has finally been finished (after almost nine years in development). And it doesn't need FS2 to work, you can just download and play.[/quote]

You just had to post that the day before I finally leave on vacation, didn't you? Now I'll spend the next few weeks anxious to get back to my computer to try this instead of enjoying my trip. Thanks alot.:P