Babylon 5 Rewatch Pt. 2

[Ran]

It seems clear that initially JMS had gone the SF-inspired route of not making it a whole "this is on a galactic scale!" thing but rather focusing on just one small section of the galaxy not much beyond a couple hundred light years wide, but at some point it just became easier to suppose the whole galaxy was involved. Sort of stakes-inflation.

Certainly, it doesn't make a huge deal of sense that these First Ones would only be interested in a little section of the galaxy.

[mandy_k]

re the timing of Franklin's near death experience: I agree that intercuts between Franklin and the space battle make the pacing of the episode seem a bit off. However, the timing does make sure that one very important aspect is accomplished. Namely the idea that in Franklin's case the soul-searching trip was very bad timing - after he finds himself in the sickbay, he realises that he went on walkabout at the worst time possible, when they needed him most badly. By jms, walkabout is legitimate when you are more afraid of what you are running [i]to[/i] then what you are running [i]from[/i]. Franklin was clearly more motivated by running [i]from[/i], and being in the middle of a war he knew that he was going to be needed. Thus he ran for the wrong reasons and at the wrong time, and the whole endeavour was quite egotistical in the end.

PS Z'ha'dum: This has to be the first time in history for the hero to walk into the lion's den and be offered [i]camomile tea[/i]. FOOMCL !! And "Who are you?" - "That's really not important". I love that stuff :D

[Werthead]

[b]4.01: [i]The Hour of the Wolf[/i][/b]
So things are pretty fucked up now. Sheridan and Garibaldi are missing, the alliance of worlds that Sheridan pulled together is collapsing, the Vorlons are refusing to help out and Londo has been recalled to Centauri Prime to act as an advisor to Emperor Cartagia.

This is a solid opening episode, but little is resolved. Sheridan is alive, but how? Morden is still alive (and we had to wait for the books to find out how). The Shadows have gone on the defensive, although it's not entirely clear why, except it has something to do with the destruction of their capital (although when Allied bombers flattened Berlin night after night in WWII, the German armies on the fronts hardly collapsed). Ivanova, Delenn and Lyta's abortive rescue mission to Z'ha'dum is also quite well-done and more than a bit creepy as the planetary defence system, 'the Eye', almost overwhelms them.

However, the episode belongs to Peter Jurasik as he confronts Cartagia (a truly memorable performance by Worthram Krimmer) and learns that he's a Grade-A nutcase, Caligula as played by Eddie Izzard. Brilliant stuff.
[b]
4.02: [i]Whatever Happened to Mr. Garibaldi?[/i][/b]
Apparently Jerry Doyle thought the title of this episode was some kind of practical joke and when he found it was real, got really worried about his character's fate. We get a good buddy story as Marcus and G'Kar go in search of Garibaldi on a remote world and G'Kar is captured by the Centauri. Meanwhile, Londo resolves to murder Cartagia to save the Centauri from his battiness.

The meat of this episode is focused on how Sheridan survives certain death at Z'ha'dum. He is basically saved by Lorien, a [s]walking, talking deus ex machina of colossal proportions[/s] First One who has lived undeground on Z'ha'dum for millions of years. Well that's all right then.

With this opening six-episode arc is difficult to review individual eps as they all flow from one to the next almost without interruption. The effect means a great deal of tension is established and, for once, isn't dissipated by having a bunch of stand-alones at the start of the season as in previous years.

[b]
4.03: [i]The Summoning[/i][/b]
Marcus and Ivanova take off to find some more of the First Ones, but instead find a colossal Vorlon fleet hiding in hyperspace. Sheridan arrives back on B5 with his new pal Lorien. The alliance between the other worlds has all but collapsed but Sheridan luckily rolls a natural 20 on his Diplomacy Check and convinces them all to reform the alliance and assemble the biggest fleet in the history of the universe (or something) through the power of the Sheridan Speech, a skill GW Bush probably wishes he had. Meanwhile, on Centauri Prime a far more intense piece of drama develops as G'Kar is whipped within an inch of his life before Londo's horrified eyes. Oh yeah, and Garibaldi is found and rescued with almost suspicious ease.

With JMS having to move the season along much faster with the loss of around four episodes of material (since he feared there wouldn't be a fifth season and wanted to make sure there was at least some resolution to the story), you get the feeling some events and storylines that would have had more resonance and attention focused on them have been thrown out the window. The contemptuous ease with which Sheridan restores the alliance and gets them to start assembling a fleet of gargantuam proportions strains credulity, but I guess JMS didn't have time to show the more realistic option of hard bargaining and Sheridan playing on the fears over the new revelation that the Vorlons have started obliterating worlds with Shadow influence on them. Oh well.
[b]
4.04: [i]Falling Towards Apotheosis[/i][/b]
The Vorlons have gone mental and started annihilating entire planets. Londo fears that Centauri Prime will fall, much to Cartagia's delight: the homeworld's destruction will be a funeral pyre to spur him on his way to godhood. Londo manages to get Cartagia to agree to hold G'Kar's execution on Narn, where he will be more vulnerable to assassination.

Elsewhere, the B5 crew hae to taken down Ambassador Ulkesh in a rather unconvincing display of poor CGI (these Netter Digital guys aren't a patch on Foundation Imaging, sadly). Ulkesh dies and we find out that Sheridan only has twenty years to live. The episode ends on an extremely dark moment as, preparing for the departure to Narn, Cartagia gets tired of G'Kar's sullen looks and has one of his eyes put out.

Whilst it's great that this opening arc is really taking off and holding no prisoners, there is a certain artificiality becoming apparent in the storytelling: things are happening because JMS wants them to rather than because they are flowing naturally from the interaction of the characters. Obviously this has always been the case going back to the pilot, but JMS has usually built the foundations of his plot on pretty sturdy ground so it seems quite natural. But here he's having to force the pace of events and the cracks are showing, particulalry the stuff on B5. OTOH, the stuff on Centauri Prime is just brilliant with all the actors (Jurasik, Krimmer, Katsulas, Furst, Wasser, Damien London as the minister) bringing their top game to the table.

[Ran]

I'd guess the apparent artificiality ties into what was noted previously, that JMS was slashing and burning some of the narrative to keep the plot moving to where it needed to be if season 4 was the last.

For some reason I had always supposed the spectre of cancellation came in the latter half of the 4th season, but it makes sense that it was a possibility from the get go.

[Werthead]

Yeah, it came up during the Season 4 renewal discussions and JMS announced it as he started writing the first episode.

The original plan was that the Shadow War would have gone on for another 3-4 eps, there'd have been a longer break before the war with Earth got going, what actually became [i]In the Beginning[/i] would have been a much smaller-scaled second half to [i]Atonement[/i] and the season would have ended on [i]Intersections in Real Time[/i]. The Earth Alliance Civil War would have ended around 4-5 episodes into Season 5 and the telepath storyline would have have been much shorter (maybe 3-4 eps) before we got into the whole Centauri/Drakh thing.

[Shryke]

[quote name='Blanc de Wert '79' post='1294470' date='Mar 31 2008, 07.46']Morden is still alive (and we had to wait for the books to find out how).[/quote]

I've never met anyone else who's bothered by this. Morden survived somehow, although horribly injured. Their repairing him. Who cares EXACTLY HOW he survived? Almost no one as far as I've seen.

[quote][b]4.03: [i]The Summoning[/i][/b]
Marcus and Ivanova take off to find some more of the First Ones, but instead find a colossal Vorlon fleet hiding in hyperspace. Sheridan arrives back on B5 with his new pal Lorien. The alliance between the other worlds has all but collapsed but Sheridan luckily rolls a natural 20 on his Diplomacy Check and convinces them all to reform the alliance and assemble the biggest fleet in the history of the universe (or something) through the power of the Sheridan Speech, a skill GW Bush probably wishes he had. Meanwhile, on Centauri Prime a far more intense piece of drama develops as G'Kar is whipped within an inch of his life before Londo's horrified eyes. Oh yeah, and Garibaldi is found and rescued with almost suspicious ease.

With JMS having to move the season along much faster with the loss of around four episodes of material (since he feared there wouldn't be a fifth season and wanted to make sure there was at least some resolution to the story), you get the feeling some events and storylines that would have had more resonance and attention focused on them have been thrown out the window. The contemptuous ease with which Sheridan restores the alliance and gets them to start assembling a fleet of gargantuam proportions strains credulity, but I guess JMS didn't have time to show the more realistic option of hard bargaining and Sheridan playing on the fears over the new revelation that the Vorlons have started obliterating worlds with Shadow influence on them. Oh well.[/quote]

See, I don't get this. The point of Sheridan pulling the Alliance together again was that it DIDN'T take bargaining. It was through force of personality. These people hold him in awe. It's like someone coming back from the dead after having kicked the devil in the balls. People are gonna sit up and listen when he talks. I mean, the guy already proved he could win against the shadows, then he went and nuked the shit out of them AND came back from the fucking dead. There's alot of people who are gonna go "I'm with that guy." because of that. Bargaining would have weakened that part of the story.



Anyway, the end of the arc here does feel a bit rushed. The Shadow War really didn't go on that long sadly. But it still works just fine. I like the feel of everything rushing to a close after Sheridan returns.

Speaking of which, I really like Sheridan in the first few episode after he comes back. Especially in Falling Towards Apotheosis. He's got that look of being very driven and focused, like a force of nature rather then a man. He really feels changed. This diminishes alot as the series goes on. I can understand WHY, since keeping him that way would make him far less sympathetic and too much of a cypher to centre the rest of the series around, but I still kinda miss it.

I occasionally wonder if maybe he should have only had a few months of life left instead of 20 years. He comes back just in time to win the shadow war, and then leaves with the First Ones. Would have made Ivonava the main character for the Earth Civil War arc. Could have been interesting I suppose.

Finally, the stuff on Centauri Prime is all top notch imo. Really good stuff.

[Jon AS]

[quote name='Shryke']I've never met anyone else who's bothered by this. Morden survived somehow, although horribly injured. Their repairing him. Who cares EXACTLY HOW he survived? Almost no one as far as I've seen.[/quote]

Yeah, he gives as good an explanation as necessary to Londo, I never really wondered about specifics.

[quote name='Shryke']See, I don't get this. The point of Sheridan pulling the Alliance together again was that it DIDN'T take bargaining. It was through force of personality. These people hold him in awe. It's like someone coming back from the dead after having kicked the devil in the balls. People are gonna sit up and listen when he talks. I mean, the guy already proved he could win against the shadows, then he went and nuked the shit out of them AND came back from the fucking dead. There's alot of people who are gonna go "I'm with that guy." because of that. Bargaining would have weakened that part of the story.[/quote]

I find myself in agreement with this as well. I also think that this messianic aspect to Sheridan could have made Garibaldi's arc in this season really interesting, if we weren't shown whatever happened to Mr. Garibaldi while he was away. That whole storyline would have been much more powerful if it had seemed as if he had truly abandoned Sheridan out of his own free will.

[Shryke]

I think it still worked. Garabaldi WAS right after all. Just not completely right. I think JMS should have pushed the Messianic Arc a bit harder with Sheridan. It was an interesting thing.

[Jon AS]

[quote name='Shryke']I think it still worked. Garabaldi WAS right after all. Just not completely right. I think JMS should have pushed the Messianic Arc a bit harder with Sheridan. It was an interesting thing.[/quote]

I think it doesn't really work for me because Garibaldi's reactions are just completely disproportional to Sheridan's behaviour, like you said the messianic aspect isn't as strong as it should have been, so Garibaldi's violent reaction to it is just a reminder that he has been manipulated.

[mandy_k]

[quote name='Jon AS' post='1294915' date='Mar 31 2008, 18.46']I think it doesn't really work for me because Garibaldi's reactions are just completely disproportional to Sheridan's behaviour, like you said the messianic aspect isn't as strong as it should have been, so Garibaldi's violent reaction to it is just a reminder that he has been manipulated.[/quote]

But the reactions of the others are equally as disproportional. I think it is set up as a mirror image - completely uncritical adulation of Sheridan as the messianic figure and saviour (which I think, while not what one might expect as rational behaviour, isn't at all unlikely to happen in a situation of utter confusion and desperation), and overly critical reaction on the part of Garibaldi. Neither side is acting sensibly.

For that part, I thought it was well thought out and done. What didn't work for me was that in the end Garibaldi's point came across as being solely due to Bester's manipulations. That diminished the whole thing greatly for me.

[Ran]

Didn't Bester say something about taking Garibaldi's natural penchant for paranoia and suspicion and turning the dial to the max on those? I think there was something along those lines, anyways.

I always figured Garibaldi's skepticism of Sheridan would have been there, tampering or not, he would simply have been likelier to just share his uncertainties in private and question them rather than embrace them wholeheartedly as he did under the influence of Psi-corps tampering.

[Werthead]

The force of personality thing is fine, exacept the people he's talking to are just the ambassadors of their races, not the leaders. The Drazi leader gets on the line home and goes, "OMFG! Sheridan's come back from the dead and he gave this wicked speech! Let's send our entire military to fight at his will!"

The government's reaction would be something along the lines of, "Are you fucking crazy? This guy came back from the dead? Are you sure he wasn't saved by some previously-unestablished super-powerful alien thing?"

Also, Sheridan never actually died, or if he did only in the sense that some people 'die' on the operating table and the doctor brings them back to life ten seconds later. As Lorien says, if he had died properly, he wouldn't have been able to bring him back. He protected Sheridan's falling body from the nuclear explosion and held him in some kind of healing/stasis state for nine days whilst his body was repaired.

[Lord of Oop North]

[quote name='Ran' post='1294956' date='Mar 31 2008, 13.04']Didn't Bester say something about taking Garibaldi's natural penchant for paranoia and suspicion and turning the dial to the max on those? I think there was something along those lines, anyways.

I always figured Garibaldi's skepticism of Sheridan would have been there, tampering or not, he would simply have been likelier to just share his uncertainties in private and question them rather than embrace them wholeheartedly as he did under the influence of Psi-corps tampering.[/quote]

Yes he did. He told the Psi Corps Doctors that he did not want to erase Garibaldi's personality, only heighten his paranoia and suspicion. They did not have to build a new personality because Garibaldi already had the personality that they needed.

[Shryke]

[quote name='Ran' post='1294956' date='Mar 31 2008, 13.04']Didn't Bester say something about taking Garibaldi's natural penchant for paranoia and suspicion and turning the dial to the max on those? I think there was something along those lines, anyways.

I always figured Garibaldi's skepticism of Sheridan would have been there, tampering or not, he would simply have been likelier to just share his uncertainties in private and question them rather than embrace them wholeheartedly as he did under the influence of Psi-corps tampering.[/quote]

Yes. In fact, they specifically point out that they didn't CHANGE anything about Garabaldi, they simply accentuated his innate traits. They just made him more suspicious. (I just watched this episode yesterday, so I remember it quite vividly)

[Shryke]

[quote name='Blanc de Wert '79' post='1294960' date='Mar 31 2008, 13.06']The force of personality thing is fine, exacept the people he's talking to are just the ambassadors of their races, not the leaders. The Drazi leader gets on the line home and goes, "OMFG! Sheridan's come back from the dead and he gave this wicked speech! Let's send our entire military to fight at his will!"

The government's reaction would be something along the lines of, "Are you fucking crazy? This guy came back from the dead? Are you sure he wasn't saved by some previously-unestablished super-powerful alien thing?"

Also, Sheridan never actually died, or if he did only in the sense that some people 'die' on the operating table and the doctor brings them back to life ten seconds later. As Lorien says, if he had died properly, he wouldn't have been able to bring him back. He protected Sheridan's falling body from the nuclear explosion and held him in some kind of healing/stasis state for nine days whilst his body was repaired.[/quote]

No one else KNOWS what actually happened there. All they know is that he was at ground zero for an atomic blast, and came back looking like he'd been on a trip to store. All their scans and reportrs and what not SAID he was dead and if asked the man himself says "I died".

And the ambassadors are working off the same information as any of their homeworlds. The Ambassadors are just the personal representation of their worlds. Why would the government not see it the same way they do. They guy their government agreed to let lead them into battle (who WON) just came back from the dead after nuking the shit outta Z'Ha'Dum. Why would their reaction be any different?

[Jon AS]

RE: Garibaldi

It's not the reaction itself that bugs me, it's the violence of it, and the suddenness. I guess that's something that would have been built up a bit better if JMS hadn't thought he needed to rush things a little.

[mandy_k]

[quote]The force of personality thing is fine, exacept the people he's talking to are just the ambassadors of their races, not the leaders. The Drazi leader gets on the line home and goes, "OMFG! Sheridan's come back from the dead and he gave this wicked speech! Let's send our entire military to fight at his will!"[/quote]

Yeah, well, that's the Drazi ... "Green must fight purple! Is no other way!"

[quote]Also, Sheridan never actually died, or if he did only in the sense that some people 'die' on the operating table and the doctor brings them back to life ten seconds later. As Lorien says, if he had died properly, he wouldn't have been able to bring him back. He protected Sheridan's falling body from the nuclear explosion and held him in some kind of healing/stasis state for nine days whilst his body was repaired.[/quote]

But that's typical misrepresentation of actual events in such cases of massive hype. Guy's had a near death experience, on the "doomsday planet" no less, and what happens is that media and public opinion hype it up so it reads that "he came back from the dead".

[quote]Yes. In fact, they specifically point out that they didn't CHANGE anything about Garabaldi, they simply accentuated his innate traits. They just made him more suspicious. (I just watched this episode yesterday, so I remember it quite vividly)[/quote]

It's not so much the part about Garibaldi's character that bugs me. It's more that his whole point - namely that Sheridan shouldn't be trusted that easily - is devaluated, as it somehow suggests that he was completely wrong and didn'
t have a point. I think he did have a valid point. But maybe that's just me.

[Shryke]

[quote name='mandy_k' post='1294983' date='Mar 31 2008, 13.21']It's not so much the part about Garibaldi's character that bugs me. It's more that his whole point - namely that Sheridan shouldn't be trusted that easily - is devaluated, as it somehow suggests that he was completely wrong and didn'
t have a point. I think he did have a valid point. But maybe that's just me.[/quote]

I agree. It was a valid point, and I think not emphasizing OTHER people seeing that is one of the shows weaknesses.

[mandy_k]

[quote name='Shryke' post='1294988' date='Mar 31 2008, 19.24']It was a valid point, and I think not emphasizing OTHER people seeing that is one of the shows weaknesses.[/quote]

Absolutely. I find Sheridan's attitude in that part of the arcabsolutely creepy at times, and the show fails to point that out. And from JMS' comments on the DVD as well as on usenet it is quite clear that the "creepy" part was intended, as well as the counterpoint made by Garibaldi. Only the counterpoint didn't work out nearly as well as it should have - and as a result, if one doesn't focus on reading between the lines, Sheridan comes across as being "right" and the unquestioned hero by definition. Something that otherwise never happens in B5 that way.

[Derfel Cadarn]

The one thing I didn't like so much, that was probably rushed, was the Vorlon revelation. The crew of B5 have spent the past few years wishing the Vorlons would step up and help out, yet when Ivanova sees the Vorlon fleet she looks worried rather than going "Hell yeah! We might win this". The Vorlon twist was done too quickly imho with no buildup.